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08-24-2010, 02:40 AM   #181
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Hmmn, camera bodies are only one part of the equation. Very important, sure, but for anyone who is seriously into photography the investment in lenses will soon exceed the cost of any camera body. I am going to wait till the dust has settled on Photokina and we have a better idea of the whole system Pentax is now offering and an idea of how that compares to the competition. There are a lot of other things to take into account like the nature and quality of accessories (flashes, etc.), tethering and profiling, focus motors (SDM), third-party availability (Tamron apparently not offering Pentax mounts on their new products, etc.), the choice and quality of Pentax's own lenses and their cost relative to the alternatives, and so on.

Imho, it is not enough for Pentax to produce a new body every 12-18 months but let the rest of the system start to atrophy which is what has been happening over the past 2-3 years. You can look at the k-5 based on what it is claimed about it, then also look at, say, the replacement for the D90 in the same light plus the pretty vast range of Nikon lenses and accessories that the owner of that new camera will be able to plug into. Just an example, but the point is that Hoya's commitment to Pentax is going to run into a credibility gap unless the whole system and not just the camera bodies is kept up to date and refreshed as needed. You cannot fool the market for long.

08-24-2010, 03:46 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
Impossible. They had one year to get the K-7 successor right and I'm sure they were already working on it when the K-7 hit the shelves. I expect some rather interesting upgrades in all aspects.

Please remember, everyone... The K-7 has a bad rep because of the "bad" high-ISO, but let's not forget that the K-7 is a MUCH better body than current K10D and K20D users realize. It's not about the specs on paper, it's how it handles in real life.

1. Near perfect AF in AF.S, even in artificial lighting
2. Auto WB that's second to none
3. Near perfect dust removal (never had to touch my Arctic Butterfly since I bought my K-7 1 year and 2 months ago (!!!), and I change lenses on a daily basis)
4. Great Live View (IMHO)
5. 100% Viewfinder coverage

These, together with the other nice additions (horizon correction, PF removal, Magnesium-alloy body, etc. etc) make the K-7 such an attractive and well-performing camera. Especially given its price point and build quality.

I came from a K20D and I'm getting sick of current K20D users who think that the K-7 is not a real upgrade. Those users don't know what they are talking about...
+1 Couldn't have said better. 150% agree on that.
08-24-2010, 03:58 AM   #183
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I will be interested to see what Pentax can do with the Sony sensor. Jpegs don't tell us much anyway. I hope for a good jpeg engine, but truthfully, as a Pentax shooter, I am used to shooting in RAW and probably will continue to do so, particularly with Lightroom being as easy as it is. Anyway, I would say that Pentax will tend to do less noise reduction -- more K7 style than Kx style.
08-24-2010, 04:57 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
Hmmn, camera bodies are only one part of the equation. Very important, sure, but for anyone who is seriously into photography the investment in lenses will soon exceed the cost of any camera body. I am going to wait till the dust has settled on Photokina and we have a better idea of the whole system Pentax is now offering and an idea of how that compares to the competition. There are a lot of other things to take into account like the nature and quality of accessories (flashes, etc.), tethering and profiling, focus motors (SDM), third-party availability (Tamron apparently not offering Pentax mounts on their new products, etc.), the choice and quality of Pentax's own lenses and their cost relative to the alternatives, and so on.

Imho, it is not enough for Pentax to produce a new body every 12-18 months but let the rest of the system start to atrophy which is what has been happening over the past 2-3 years. You can look at the k-5 based on what it is claimed about it, then also look at, say, the replacement for the D90 in the same light plus the pretty vast range of Nikon lenses and accessories that the owner of that new camera will be able to plug into. Just an example, but the point is that Hoya's commitment to Pentax is going to run into a credibility gap unless the whole system and not just the camera bodies is kept up to date and refreshed as needed. You cannot fool the market for long.
Totally agree. Get the best from what you have then move on.

08-24-2010, 05:31 AM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't care JPEG IQ. But...No details at ISO over 400, worse colours and contrast = no IQ.

Anyway, the difference of work of in-camera processors could be huge.
Software is very important thing.
QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I agree with you. I don't think camera processing can bring it to the K-x level, but I hope I am wrong.

But, I remember the hopes many had put on camera processing, when the first beta K-7 images were coming out and looked similar to the k20D, and then at the end it turned out to be the same or even slightly worse at iso3200.

I hope it's different this time.

P.S: Sony users aren't going to be too happy.

Last edited by pcarfan; 08-24-2010 at 05:54 AM.
08-24-2010, 06:15 AM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
I agree with you. I don't think camera processing can bring it to the K-x level, but I hope I am wrong.
I think what we're seeing in the A55 samples is images that have been overprocessed by the camera. So the K-5 will not add processing, but rather do less processing (or different processing).

The fact that there's no transparent mirror to take away light in the K-5 will also enable more light being captured and hence the SNR will be higher (more signal, equal or less noise) and IQ will be better to start with.

Wim
08-24-2010, 07:07 AM   #187
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Sony probably has the worst JPEG engine of any major manufacturer, so if the JPEGs look good then the RAW files should be very good.

The A55 is a hybrid camera that is optimized for HD video and 10 frames per second.
08-24-2010, 07:10 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Will have to wait and see how well the low light and AF-C has improved and how much better that iso is......and hopefully they still maintained the K-7 size/ergonmics. If they did well in these, then it will be a winner.

Hope they announce some sweet lenses too.
My thoughts exactly. I couldn't see my way to upgrade from the K20 to the K-7, for the aforementioned points. I really really really hope that low light AF and predictive AF are much improved, and high ISO performance at least on par with the K-x. Then I will upgrade.

NaCl(increased DR would be nice too)H2O

08-24-2010, 07:28 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ishpuini Quote
I think what we're seeing in the A55 samples is images that have been overprocessed by the camera. So the K-5 will not add processing, but rather do less processing (or different processing).

The fact that there's no transparent mirror to take away light in the K-5 will also enable more light being captured and hence the SNR will be higher (more signal, equal or less noise) and IQ will be better to start with.

Wim
Also, to compensate for the 1/3 stop light loss from the pelicle mirror, Sony has boosed the gain on the sensor accordingly, so (setting aside all other factors of processing), a Pentax that uses the sensor should have a 1/3 stop advantage in noise over what we're seeing from the A55.
08-24-2010, 08:13 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
My thoughts exactly. I couldn't see my way to upgrade from the K20 to the K-7, for the aforementioned points. I really really really hope that low light AF and predictive AF are much improved, and high ISO performance at least on par with the K-x. Then I will upgrade.

NaCl(increased DR would be nice too)H2O
K20D shared the AF module of the K10D and the K-7 improved by leaps and bounds on it to make even DPR say "While Pentax managed to quite significantly improve the continuous shooting speed the K-7 still lags very slightly behind the competition in terms of autofocus speed. This is especially true for fast-paced situations where you might want to make full use of the 5.2 fps but the AF can't always keep up............." (so, significant improvement and only 'slightly' behind the competition)

Also, the ergonomics improved as well, so K-7 only lagged behind in the iso department, which was still an improvement over the K10D I had, so it was an easy call for me.

P.S: I made a mistake in thinking Sony fans will be dissapointed with the A55, but based on DPR threads they are super excited and even some Pentax users seems to think this camera has raised the bar.....I have to look into this camera more carfeully.
08-24-2010, 08:14 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sailor Quote
A word of assurance from an old geezer who has been shooting since the late '70's - you don't have to be a beginner to enjoy your current state of mind and bliss.

Jer
Jer are you sure that's not just the onset of alzheimers?

NaCl(just kidding, I completely agree with you)H2O
08-24-2010, 08:19 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
K20D shared the AF module of the K10D and the K-7 improved by leaps and bounds on it to make even DPR say "While Pentax managed to quite significantly improve the continuous shooting speed the K-7 still lags very slightly behind the competition in terms of autofocus speed. This is especially true for fast-paced situations where you might want to make full use of the 5.2 fps but the AF can't always keep up............." (so, significant improvement and only 'slightly' behind the competition)

Also, the ergonomics improved as well, so K-7 only lagged behind in the iso department, which was still an improvement over the K10D I had, so it was an easy call for me.

P.S: I made a mistake in thinking Sony fans will be dissapointed with the A55, but based on DPR threads they are super excited and even some Pentax users seems to think this camera has raised the bar.....I have to look into this camera more carfeully.
I heard many many reports that the predictive AF wasn't that much of an improvement over the K20. I also heard that the K20 had better iso performance than the K-7. I'm one of those who actually likes the ergonomics of the K20, in some ways I like it better than my K-x. All I was trying to say was if they improve the predictive AF and keep the iso performance of the K-x than I'll live on hot dogs and peanut butter for a while to afford a K-5.

NaCl(I'm impressed with the other stuff the K-7 offers but not enough to upgrade)H2O
08-24-2010, 08:26 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
I heard many many reports that the predictive AF wasn't that much of an improvement over the K20. I also heard that the K20 had better iso performance than the K-7. I'm one of those who actually likes the ergonomics of the K20, in some ways I like it better than my K-x. All I was trying to say was if they improve the predictive AF and keep the iso performance of the K-x than I'll live on hot dogs and peanut butter for a while to afford a K-5.

NaCl(I'm impressed with the other stuff the K-7 offers but not enough to upgrade)H2O
K20D is an excellent camera, and I agree it does marginally better at high iso's than the K-7. I will also rather have the K20D than the k-x. I differ with you on the AF-C conclusion though.

Also, if they improve the AF and iso in the K-5, it would then be worthwhile for an eventual upgrade, but I am in no dire need to upgrade.

P.S: A Pentaxian just called the A55

"Well, this is THE camera!!!
This is HOW IT'S DONE, Pentax!
Learn, learn and learn (if you have any time left) and listen!
Regards to Sony. "

WOW! I am missing something big with this A55, what is it?
08-24-2010, 08:38 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
K20D is an excellent camera, and I agree it does marginally better at high iso's than the K-7. I will also rather have the K20D than the k-x. I differ with you on the AF-C conclusion though.

Also, if they improve the AF and iso in the K-5, it would then be worthwhile for an eventual upgrade, but I am in no dire need to upgrade.

P.S: A Pentaxian just called the A55

"Well, this is THE camera!!!
This is HOW IT'S DONE, Pentax!
Learn, learn and learn (if you have any time left) and listen!
Regards to Sony. "

WOW! I am missing something big with this A55, what is it?
it's what is called "Specs Sells" whatever the performance
unfortunate, but in this segment very true.
08-24-2010, 09:50 AM   #195
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I have a K20d and while I've been contemplating going full frame and jumping to Nikon if the D800 comes out soon, I will also strongly consider the K-5. If the low noise in high ISO and fps are going to be as good as they say, it may be worth me saving my cash and Pentax glass to remain with the brand. Low light shooting is key for me, which is why I've never upgraded to the K-7.
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