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08-26-2010, 11:36 PM   #256
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QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
With ever-climbing pixel counts, that's highly unlikely. Count among those "who will care" about FF all of us that want a viewfinder that doesn't suck, which will never exist on ANY APS-C dSLR.
Can lenses even resolve more than 25 megapixels at APS-C size? After that, it's moot...

I agree to a degree regarding viewfinders.... a 100/100 pentaprism would be nice, but for most people a D90 or K-7 viewfinder is perfectly adequate.

08-27-2010, 12:43 AM   #257
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
All cameras tend to suffer hot pixels which sucks.

I avoid them by mapping and shooting in RAW, ACR removes them, try that.
All cameras naturally suffer from hot pixels but the Pentax K20D and K-7 (similar/same sensor) are the worst in their class of cameras! That is why DFS cannot be turned off.

Claiming that they are all the same means that you have not tried a similar class Canon or Nikon.

As a bit of a joke (because in reality it would never happen), if Pentax just bit the bullet and started using Canon sensors, Pentax would become a near perfect camera.
08-27-2010, 12:48 AM   #258
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
All cameras tend to suffer hot pixels which sucks.

I avoid them by mapping and shooting in RAW, ACR removes them, try that.
QuoteOriginally posted by ewalk Quote
The K-5 (or whatever it's going to be called) will be available just like your K-7 was/is!
Okay, I will bite....

I am so surprised no one has discussed the model number. Just how exactly does K-5 represent a successor to the K-7?

Aw come on now, someone please enlighten me and explain Pentax's logic behind another seemingly insane model number choice.

08-27-2010, 12:50 AM   #259
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Okay, I will bite....

I am so surprised no one has discussed the model number. Just how exactly does K-5 represent a successor to the K-7?

Aw come on now, someone please enlighten me and explain Pentax's logic behind another seemingly insane model number choice.

No different than Canon using lower numbers to denote it's higher end models.

Ie

1D, 5D, 7D, 60D, 550D, etc.....

08-27-2010, 01:01 AM   #260
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
All cameras naturally suffer from hot pixels but the Pentax K20D and K-7 (similar/same sensor) are the worst in their class of cameras! That is why DFS cannot be turned off.

Claiming that they are all the same means that you have not tried a similar class Canon or Nikon.

As a bit of a joke (because in reality it would never happen), if Pentax just bit the bullet and started using Canon sensors, Pentax would become a near perfect camera.
You're talking non-sense, you haven't put any study to back up your saying. And I never heard of any.

The fact is that even Raw files are very processed in camera, all of them. DNG specifications for exemple states that the hot pisel correction shall be included in the file.

Apart from being an engineer specialist of the subject and working for one of the DSLR makers I doubt anybody have a clear picture of the performance of the competition. And in that case, such a specialist would not make comments as you did.
08-27-2010, 01:19 AM   #261
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k-7 can turn off dfs
08-27-2010, 01:24 AM   #262
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QuoteOriginally posted by zackspeed Quote
k-7 can turn off dfs
I thought that was only for less than 30 seconds?
08-27-2010, 01:34 AM   #263
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
No different than Canon using lower numbers to denote it's higher end models.

Ie

1D, 5D, 7D, 60D, 550D, etc.....
This is also similar to many Pentax film cameras - for example, the PZ- and SF series'. This may leave plenty of room for better models (possibly even FF?) as a K-3 or K-1 in the future!

08-27-2010, 05:14 AM   #264
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
All cameras naturally suffer from hot pixels but the Pentax K20D and K-7 (similar/same sensor) are the worst in their class of cameras! That is why DFS cannot be turned off.

Claiming that they are all the same means that you have not tried a similar class Canon or Nikon.

As a bit of a joke (because in reality it would never happen), if Pentax just bit the bullet and started using Canon sensors, Pentax would become a near perfect camera.
I am going to borrow a D90 and give it a shot tonight and see what it's like for long exposures. I REALLY like the Pentax body but have been craving a different sensor in it. I have high hopes for a K7 build with a better sensor in the K5. That will have me upgrading in short order. If it's a disappointment I'll head for a FF as that seems to be what I am looking for.

Didn't mean to stir the pot. I'm by no means a brand loyalist and just want a camera that gives me a confident feeling all around so i'm not creatively diminished while worrying about hardware issues. K7 delivered with best build quality for the price and reasonable sealed lenses but the sensor is becoming a disappointment for me. If they nail the sensor and keep the other attributes I'll be totally satisfied. The AF performance with 1.10 is fine. It was outperforming a 5d m2 that I played with in a low lit building anyway before that update. I'm routing for Pentax to get it done right.

Mine has taken all that Afghanistan has thrown at it so far with a few quibbles. Hot pixels which seem to be more an sensor issue that a temperature issue as I had previously thought now that I have had a opportunity to use it in reasonable weather. And live view/movie mode overheats if it's around 90 degrees or hotter.

I have 4 Canon's none of which are DSLR's. I am here because Pentax could offer me a "real" metal camera and lenses for significantly less than a D300s or 7d with equivalent glass (or those primes that i'm slowly collecting). A FF was VERY appealing but I was not impressed with the 5d and the D700 is a bit pricey being that the body cost what my K7 and two DA*'s cost.

Lee
08-27-2010, 05:37 AM   #265
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
You're talking non-sense, you haven't put any study to back up your saying. And I never heard of any.

The fact is that even Raw files are very processed in camera, all of them. DNG specifications for exemple states that the hot pisel correction shall be included in the file.

Apart from being an engineer specialist of the subject and working for one of the DSLR makers I doubt anybody have a clear picture of the performance of the competition. And in that case, such a specialist would not make comments as you did.
+1

Canon and Nikon, all CMOS sensors have the issue, it's that simple.
08-27-2010, 06:59 AM   #266
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Okay, I will bite....
I am so surprised no one has discussed the model number. Just how exactly does K-5 represent a successor to the K-7?
Aw come on now, someone please enlighten me and explain Pentax's logic behind another seemingly insane model number choice.
Lol... that's what I wanna know too. I was even about to to start a thread asking the same yesterday or the day before, but thought 'we don't need another thread like that'. There's no ryhme or reason to the designation. What'll be the progression, K-7 -> K-5 -> K-3-> K-1 -> and only after that will we have the camera everyone wants to buy & own for the un-conditional love it gives back to us, the K-9?
08-27-2010, 07:52 AM   #267
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
I'm quite happy without FF. APS-C gives me reach with smaller glass
This, along with weather sealing, at an inexpensive price-point is why I have stayed with Pentax. I'm not a Pro, but a novice striving for amateur status (going on 4 years now).

What dSLR system can give you 300mm equivalent f/2.8 in 5" long? Olympus 4/3rds and Pentax APS-C, and 4/3rds is a smaller sensor with its own issues while Pentax's APS-C lenses are very size competitive with the superior surface area. And Pentax's product (DA* 200 f/2.8) has so many of the critics continuing to rave.

QuoteOriginally posted by Unsinkable II Quote
and if I need to go really wide, there's now the Sigma 8-16 (fab lens).
Having the DA* 16-50 f/2.8 and DA 10-17 Fisheye, I'm tempted myself.
08-27-2010, 08:26 AM   #268
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
All cameras naturally suffer from hot pixels but the Pentax K20D and K-7 (similar/same sensor) are the worst in their class of cameras! That is why DFS cannot be turned off.

Claiming that they are all the same means that you have not tried a similar class Canon or Nikon.

As a bit of a joke (because in reality it would never happen), if Pentax just bit the bullet and started using Canon sensors, Pentax would become a near perfect camera.
That almost sounds like troll bait.
08-27-2010, 09:19 AM   #269
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QuoteOriginally posted by bjsmith Quote
What dSLR system can give you 300mm equivalent f/2.8 in 5" long? ... And Pentax's product (DA* 200 f/2.8) has so many of the critics continuing to rave.
Just for correctness, a 300mm F2.8 equivalent would need to be something like 200mm F2. The DA* 200mm F2.8 is more like a 300mm F4 equivalent in terms of pure image output. You can't make the same image using 200mm @ F2.8 on APS-C as you can using a 300mm @ F2.8 lens on FF. Depth of field will be smaller and background blur great when using the 300mm @F2.8 on full frame while shooting the same scene. Whether or not this matters to you (or could even perhaps be an advantage to APS-C given extra DOF) is a totally different topic.

Also, I am convinced that FF will always produce better output (by at least a stop) than APS-C, given that the sensors are manufactured using the same technology, and the image processor is the same. This also goes along with the above, that F2.8 on APS-C is not equal to F2.8 on FF. The APS-C will lag behind at the same ISO.

When the noise levels in sensors get so good that noise is not visible at regular ISO values even on APS-C sensors, then I would concede that the FF noise advantage would diminish. But there is still the first point about equal image output that will always hold true, not matter how good the sensors are.
08-27-2010, 09:49 AM   #270
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Heheh, a Canon sensor in a Pentax. It wasn't all that long ago that Pentax (and Nikon) users used to trash Canon sensors because they were CMOS and gave plastic-looking skin - only CCD could give the image quality that we demanded. How times have changed.

QuoteOriginally posted by 24X36NOW Quote
With ever-climbing pixel counts, that's highly unlikely. Count among those "who will care" about FF all of us that want a viewfinder that doesn't suck, which will never exist on ANY APS-C dSLR.
...and medium format users can say the same about FF, and large format users say the same about medium format...

I am not interesting in the EVIL field at the moment but I do think that, as displays improve, we will see EVFs that are preferred by even the most serious photographers over optical viewfinders. Heck, it wasn't that long ago that so many people hated and didn't want live view - now it would be laughable for anyone to introduce a DSLR with not just live view, but video capabilities. Thanks to EVIL, EVFs will probably get similar technology advancements.
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