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08-30-2010, 05:39 AM   #286
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Falk: I'm sure a vacuum-tubes camera would make much better pictures

08-30-2010, 01:43 PM   #287
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Now that Sony rumors is posting that the A700 replacement (A77 & A7xx) will have an 18MP APS-C sensor I'm surprised people are not wondering if that will be the sensor in the new K-?.
08-30-2010, 02:03 PM   #288
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oh, well. Pentax is history. No full frame, no low light solutions!
I already got rid of most of the kit, still have a K-7 to dispose and a few lenses. Pentax took too long to produce a proper camera and I got work as a photographer and need to satisfy my customers. Canon EOS 5D is the answer!
08-30-2010, 02:07 PM   #289
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I'm sure we're happy to hear that you've found a system that matches your customers' requirements and that your business is doing well.

Now .... We'll go back to taking photographs with our improper cameras.

08-30-2010, 02:19 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
As for the circuitry ... because Sony sensors now have their A/D converters on-chip, it's all digital and doesn't play that big of a rôle anyway.
Allegedly the Nikon D300 uses a Sony sensor that it can use with the latter's native A/D converters to achieve high-speed 12-bit output and has extra A/D converters on board to achieve a slow 14-bit conversion.

I don't know whether the above is true and if modern Sony sensors would support reading out analogue signals for conversion with dedicated A/D circuitry but such circuitry could add to the cost.

Be that as it may, I agree that the main price differentiator is a smaller market and perhaps also the ability to charge more from customers with bigger pockets.
08-30-2010, 04:13 PM   #291
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
If Pentax keeps the SAFOX-IX+ AF System then it probably wouldn't have predictive AF. I am sure the iso performance will improve to at least match the K-x. So, basically other than iso improvements it could just be some cosmetic revamping (7fps is just that to me....unless the buffer is markedly increased to maintain the fps). If it turns out to be this way, I will have no reason to upgrade my K-7....actually even with improved AF I still have no reason to, but I will be mighty tempted to try it out

P.S: dynamic range is nice, but it hasn't been a problem at all in real life use for me with the K-7, neither is low light focus.
Actually, I find that DR is the main limiting factor with my K-7. I would much prefer and additional 1-2 stops of DR over high ISO noise improvement. Of course, having both would be nice. In any case, this new camera is going to have to be phenomenally good to get me to upgrade.

Rob
08-30-2010, 04:17 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by tea Quote
oh, well. Pentax is history. No full frame, no low light solutions!
I already got rid of most of the kit, still have a K-7 to dispose and a few lenses. Pentax took too long to produce a proper camera and I got work as a photographer and need to satisfy my customers. Canon EOS 5D is the answer!
Who are your customers ?
08-30-2010, 04:24 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Actually, I find that DR is the main limiting factor with my K-7. I would much prefer and additional 1-2 stops of DR over high ISO noise improvement. Of course, having both would be nice. In any case, this new camera is going to have to be phenomenally good to get me to upgrade.

Rob
Rob,

I should have worded it better. Dynamic range is one of the major issues with photography. The biggest gap between the human eye and the camera, and capturing the huge dynamic range in nature is indeed a problem for any sensor - I obviously have that problems with my K-7.

What I meant to say is, I don't see a difference with DR issues between K10D (11.6 DxOMark) and Pentax (10.6) even though it is suppose to be 1-stop better. Just don't see that in real life as they seem to perform identical.

I would like as wide as a DR as possible and as low an iso as possible (iso 50 would be sweet).

08-30-2010, 07:03 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Rob,

I should have worded it better. Dynamic range is one of the major issues with photography. The biggest gap between the human eye and the camera, and capturing the huge dynamic range in nature is indeed a problem for any sensor - I obviously have that problems with my K-7.

What I meant to say is, I don't see a difference with DR issues between K10D (11.6 DxOMark) and Pentax (10.6) even though it is suppose to be 1-stop better. Just don't see that in real life as they seem to perform identical.

I would like as wide as a DR as possible and as low an iso as possible (iso 50 would be sweet).
I often find DR a little limiting, but I also often intentionally reduce the DR of an image to make it more interesting or have more pop. I will often intentionally blow out the high lights or black out shadows for B&W work. Now I know guys who shoot wedding need every detail of the white dress captured and other have more demanding needs.

The new 16MP Sony sensor appears to have very good DR, so assuming that is the future sensor I think most people will be pretty happy.
08-30-2010, 09:15 PM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by tea Quote
oh, well. Pentax is history. No full frame, no low light solutions!
I already got rid of most of the kit, still have a K-7 to dispose and a few lenses. Pentax took too long to produce a proper camera and I got work as a photographer and need to satisfy my customers. Canon EOS 5D is the answer!
Glad to see everyone ignoring this hogwash - thanks for sharing your opinion.
Now go right on ahead with your 5D and viva la difference - in price, that is...

I also wouldn't mind FF, but I ask myself repeatedly "would it make a huge difference in what I get out of the camera?" - low-light, I'm managing well; noise, I rarely shoot above ISO 1600; AF-speed, I'm not missing a great deal on the K20D, let alone what a K-7 would do for me...

In the end, all I'm seeing is wants, not needs...
08-30-2010, 11:52 PM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
I'm sure we're happy to hear that you've found a system that matches your customers' requirements and that your business is doing well.

Now .... We'll go back to taking photographs with our improper cameras.
+1 well said
08-31-2010, 03:19 AM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
What I meant to say is, I don't see a difference with DR issues between K10D (11.6 DxOMark) and Pentax (10.6) even though it is suppose to be 1-stop better. Just don't see that in real life as they seem to perform identical.

I would like as wide as a DR as possible and as low an iso as possible (iso 50 would be sweet).
The supposed 1 stop advantage applies to ISO100 only. At ISO400, DR is identical.

Yes, ISO 50 and lower would be nice but with current sensors, I fear that stacking is the only means to emulate it. Possibly the best reason for fast fps bursts Esp. if the alignment and stacking is done in camera to produce one linear DNG image. Native low ISO requires large full well capacities, esp. as quantum efficiency increases. The cure will be inline sensor readout and digital accumulators and 50MB memory added right in the sensor. At least 5 years down the road.
08-31-2010, 04:42 AM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by tea Quote
oh, well. Pentax is history. No full frame, no low light solutions!
I already got rid of most of the kit, still have a K-7 to dispose and a few lenses. Pentax took too long to produce a proper camera and I got work as a photographer and need to satisfy my customers. Canon EOS 5D is the answer!
This has to be a trolling wind up...

The FF market segment is tiny compared to the APS-C, Pentax should focus their efforts on APS-C for now. I very much doubt a FF Pentax body would take sales away from the 5D Mk2 anyway, and given that a second hand 5D goes for around £750 (when a FF Pentax would come in somewhere around twice that) it's a market that's stitched up.

On with the K-5! Looking forward to what materialises.
08-31-2010, 04:45 AM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
Rob,

I should have worded it better. Dynamic range is one of the major issues with photography. The biggest gap between the human eye and the camera, and capturing the huge dynamic range in nature is indeed a problem for any sensor - I obviously have that problems with my K-7.

What I meant to say is, I don't see a difference with DR issues between K10D (11.6 DxOMark) and Pentax (10.6) even though it is suppose to be 1-stop better. Just don't see that in real life as they seem to perform identical.

I would like as wide as a DR as possible and as low an iso as possible (iso 50 would be sweet).
I agree. I also think that most people who complain about dynamic range with the K7 (or any other camera for that matter) just don't know how to expose well with their given camera. With the K7, there is plenty of detail in the shadows, if less in the highlights.

As for the K10, I didn't see much difference except maybe at iso 100 and even then, seldom. The K10 doesn't meter very well and so I was constantly bringing up the exposure on my photos which tended to neutralize any benefit there is in the dynamic range.
08-31-2010, 05:44 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The supposed 1 stop advantage applies to ISO100 only. At ISO400, DR is identical.

Yes, ISO 50 and lower would be nice but with current sensors, I fear that stacking is the only means to emulate it. Possibly the best reason for fast fps bursts Esp. if the alignment and stacking is done in camera to produce one linear DNG image. Native low ISO requires large full well capacities, esp. as quantum efficiency increases. The cure will be inline sensor readout and digital accumulators and 50MB memory added right in the sensor. At least 5 years down the road.
Faulk, that is good to know.

Can DNG's be aligned and stacked in-camera efficiently with current technology? also, any software out there that would align and stack DNG files and output as DNG. My photmatix accepts DNG files, and it aligns and stacks (I think after converting to jpeg), and the output is 16 bit Tiff or less (but, if the processing is done in jpeg, will this "upconversion' even do much ?)

Nice to see the latest Sony align and stack JPEG for their in-camera HDR (K-7 doesn't align ). But, I prefer to do my own tone mapping, but still nice to see the advancement.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I agree. I also think that most people who complain about dynamic range with the K7 (or any other camera for that matter) just don't know how to expose well with their given camera. With the K7, there is plenty of detail in the shadows, if less in the highlights.

As for the K10, I didn't see much difference except maybe at iso 100 and even then, seldom. The K10 doesn't meter very well and so I was constantly bringing up the exposure on my photos which tended to neutralize any benefit there is in the dynamic range.
Yeah! this difference in metering and the differnet tone curves may mask the 1-stop advantage in daily use.
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