Zeiss ZK updates?

clark · 08-25-2010, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by DogLover

The way the focusing ring turns is just sublime. .

i'm sold

I do really like pentax M, never tried pentax A- and I have a few super paragon lenses which feel pretty rubbish

but the pentax viewfinder is letting the side down, come on guys the d300 and the 7d are 80% as good as a FF finder, even the k7 is a real let down, and the live view monitor isn't as good as canon

Parallax · 08-25-2010, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by clark

but the pentax viewfinder is letting the side down, come on guys the d300 and the 7d are 80% as good as a FF finder, even the k7 is a real let down, and the live view monitor isn't as good as canon

And what does that have to do with Zeiss lenses in general, or the thread topic specifically?

DogLover · 08-25-2010, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by clark

i'm sold

I do really like pentax M, never tried pentax A- and I have a few super paragon lenses which feel pretty rubbish

but the pentax viewfinder is letting the side down, come on guys the d300 and the 7d are 80% as good as a FF finder, even the k7 is a real let down, and the live view monitor isn't as good as canon

I actually find the K7 VF to be quite good, though I'm using both a split-screen and an OME-53 magnifier, which is probably bordering on overkill. Likewise, the live view, when magnified, works very well for critical focusing.

ewalk · 08-25-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Parallax

And what does that have to do with Zeiss lenses in general, or the thread topic specifically?

It's somewhat related to manual focussing? *shrugs*

DogLover · 08-25-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by Zav

Considering that they are made in the same japanese factory, this is normal ;-)
A friend who used extensively both Voigt and Zeiss lenses told me that the main difference is not in construction but in image rendition. Zeiss lenses being more "cold" and Voigt lenses giving more "lively colors" (its words, not mine).

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I've definitely seen plenty of images from Voigts that I would be proud of. I'm most certain that I'll try one someday. In fact, if they put the 125 back in production I'll buy it the moment its available. Who knows, maybe I'll even be "converted" eventually. As much as I love my Zeiss, though, I kinda doubt it.

**rparmar** · 08-25-2010, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by DogLover

The appeal of the ZK's for me are two-fold:

1. You know that you are getting state-of-the-art IQ (the current 25 and 18 are possible exceptions). If you take a bad image, it's your fault.

2. There is an overwhelming feeling of quality that, in my experience, is unsurpassed. The way the focusing ring turns is just sublime. AF ability would absolutely destroy that. There is a heft and solidity that just oozes quality. Even the way the metal hoods click on and off gives me goosebumps.

The first is equalled by Pentax, some say exceeded (depending on if you like blue colour casts or not). The second is fetishism, but nonetheless I concede it has value. Just not the value Zeiss puts on it.

If they cut their price by 50% I would buy Zeiss, as I have good associations with them from Contax days and don't mind losing AF.

DogLover · 08-25-2010, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by rparmar

The first is equalled by Pentax, some say exceeded (depending on if you like blue colour casts or not). The second is fetishism, but nonetheless I concede it has value. Just not the value Zeiss puts on it.

If they cut their price by 50% I would buy Zeiss, as I have good associations with them from Contax days and don't mind losing AF.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion and you and I have already been through all this before. Don't care to revisit the issue with you.

**rparmar** · 08-25-2010, 07:20 PM

What exactly was the point of that post?

Zav · 08-25-2010, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by DogLover

Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I've definitely seen plenty of images from Voigts that I would be proud of. I'm most certain that I'll try one someday. In fact, if they put the 125 back in production I'll buy it the moment its available. Who knows, maybe I'll even be "converted" eventually. As much as I love my Zeiss, though, I kinda doubt it.

He was not saying ones were better than the others, just saying they have different character.

SergioFromSF · 08-25-2010, 10:26 PM

Thanks DogLover. I have a friend photographer who over the years (before digital) acquired a lot of Zeiss lenses, now he uses a DSLR (Nikon) with a couple of zoom lenses and that's seems to satisfy his needs, but doesn't want to give up his Zeiss lenses and always speaks with reverence about them, essentially using your words. I asked him if he wants to sell them to me so that I could try to use them on K-7 with adapter, but he said he will part with them only when he dies.
I used to use manual focus back 30 years ago with Canon AE1-Program (still have it) and was pretty good at it, but it had a nice split screen and "dots circle" that helped in focusing a lot. I find that with current K-7 design, it's more difficult for me, unless it's a really close shot and I can see the details well. Anyway, I was asking because I am looking for prime lens between 28mm and 35mm. So far DA35 seems a good candidate.

blende8 · 08-26-2010, 12:08 AM

It is correct that both the Voigtlander and the Zeiss lenses are produced by Cosina. The price difference is mainly due to two things (AFAIK):
1. Cosina is using Zeiss/Schott glass.
2. The quality control is much tighter for the Zeiss lenses. They are supervised in Japan, then sent to Germany where each lens is checked individually again and is getting a control certificate.

This does not necessarily mean that the Voigtlander lenses are worse.

Zav · 08-26-2010, 04:00 AM

Originally posted by blende8

It is correct that both the Voigtlander and the Zeiss lenses are produced by Cosina. The price difference is mainly due to two things (AFAIK):
1. Cosina is using Zeiss/Schott glass.

Do you have more information about this? I sometimes hear it but never had evidence of it.

ghelary · 08-26-2010, 05:07 AM

Originally posted by blende8

It is correct that both the Voigtlander and the Zeiss lenses are produced by Cosina. The price difference is mainly due to two things (AFAIK):
1. Cosina is using Zeiss/Schott glass.
2. The quality control is much tighter for the Zeiss lenses. They are supervised in Japan, then sent to Germany where each lens is checked individually again and is getting a control certificate.

This does not necessarily mean that the Voigtlander lenses are worse.

I discussed with a Leica user who said that he gave up on Cosina lenses (read Voigtlander) after 2 when each of them got alignment issues. Quality control is at a price.

Voigtlander lenses have also a Japanese bokej (creamy) while Zeiss lenses have a much nervous one with sharper transition from in focus to out of focus, that gives Zeiss lenses a pronunced "3D" feeling compared to similar lenses.

ewalk · 08-26-2010, 05:12 AM

Speaking of Cosina:

Cosina joins Micro Four Thirds system: Digital Photography Review

They also announced a native 25mm f/0.95 for the m4/3 mount. I've also heard rumblings that Zeiss is going to introduce a native series of primes for Sony's E-Mount. It's a little funny how all of a sudden there are plenty of legitimate digital rangefinder-esque options.

blende8 · 08-26-2010, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by Zav

Do you have more information about this? I sometimes hear it but never had evidence of it.

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Lens_Production/$File/Lens_Production.pdf

Quote:

We purchase our optical glass preferably from
the Schott Glass Works. Of particular
importance here are the optical properties of the
different glass materials and their tolerances.
When choosing our suppliers, we also take into
account their delivery capabilities and delivery
times, their prices and the environmental
soundness of their products. In our optical
production, we currently process 114 types of
optical glass with different refractive indices,
color dispersion, weight, etc. This results in a spectrum of approx. 350 different types of
lens elements with approx. 700 different radii. Each lens consists of several optical
glass materials and crystals, with some almost as heavy as steel and others more
expensive than gold.
We mainly process pressings for serially produced camera lenses. Glass blocks are
used for the production of prototypes and special components. The blocks are first
cut into plates which are then rounded and further processed to produce lens
elements.

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08-25-2010, 05:58 PM	#31
clark Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 301	Originally posted by DogLover The way the focusing ring turns is just sublime. . i'm sold I do really like pentax M, never tried pentax A- and I have a few super paragon lenses which feel pretty rubbish but the pentax viewfinder is letting the side down, come on guys the d300 and the 7d are 80% as good as a FF finder, even the k7 is a real let down, and the live view monitor isn't as good as canon

08-25-2010, 06:32 PM	#32
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by clark but the pentax viewfinder is letting the side down, come on guys the d300 and the 7d are 80% as good as a FF finder, even the k7 is a real let down, and the live view monitor isn't as good as canon And what does that have to do with Zeiss lenses in general, or the thread topic specifically?

08-25-2010, 06:41 PM	#33
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by clark i'm sold I do really like pentax M, never tried pentax A- and I have a few super paragon lenses which feel pretty rubbish but the pentax viewfinder is letting the side down, come on guys the d300 and the 7d are 80% as good as a FF finder, even the k7 is a real let down, and the live view monitor isn't as good as canon I actually find the K7 VF to be quite good, though I'm using both a split-screen and an OME-53 magnifier, which is probably bordering on overkill. Likewise, the live view, when magnified, works very well for critical focusing.

08-25-2010, 06:47 PM	#34
ewalk Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 316	Originally posted by Parallax And what does that have to do with Zeiss lenses in general, or the thread topic specifically? It's somewhat related to manual focussing? shrugs

08-25-2010, 06:47 PM	#35
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by Zav Considering that they are made in the same japanese factory, this is normal ;-) A friend who used extensively both Voigt and Zeiss lenses told me that the main difference is not in construction but in image rendition. Zeiss lenses being more "cold" and Voigt lenses giving more "lively colors" (its words, not mine). Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I've definitely seen plenty of images from Voigts that I would be proud of. I'm most certain that I'll try one someday. In fact, if they put the 125 back in production I'll buy it the moment its available. Who knows, maybe I'll even be "converted" eventually. As much as I love my Zeiss, though, I kinda doubt it.

08-25-2010, 07:01 PM	#36
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	Originally posted by DogLover The appeal of the ZK's for me are two-fold: 1. You know that you are getting state-of-the-art IQ (the current 25 and 18 are possible exceptions). If you take a bad image, it's your fault. 2. There is an overwhelming feeling of quality that, in my experience, is unsurpassed. The way the focusing ring turns is just sublime. AF ability would absolutely destroy that. There is a heft and solidity that just oozes quality. Even the way the metal hoods click on and off gives me goosebumps. The first is equalled by Pentax, some say exceeded (depending on if you like blue colour casts or not). The second is fetishism, but nonetheless I concede it has value. Just not the value Zeiss puts on it. If they cut their price by 50% I would buy Zeiss, as I have good associations with them from Contax days and don't mind losing AF.

08-25-2010, 07:08 PM	#37
DogLover Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 2,054	Originally posted by rparmar The first is equalled by Pentax, some say exceeded (depending on if you like blue colour casts or not). The second is fetishism, but nonetheless I concede it has value. Just not the value Zeiss puts on it. If they cut their price by 50% I would buy Zeiss, as I have good associations with them from Contax days and don't mind losing AF. Again, you're entitled to your opinion and you and I have already been through all this before. Don't care to revisit the issue with you.

08-25-2010, 07:20 PM	#38
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,819	What exactly was the point of that post?

08-25-2010, 07:37 PM	#39
Zav Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,371	Originally posted by DogLover Well, everyone's entitled to their opinion. I've definitely seen plenty of images from Voigts that I would be proud of. I'm most certain that I'll try one someday. In fact, if they put the 125 back in production I'll buy it the moment its available. Who knows, maybe I'll even be "converted" eventually. As much as I love my Zeiss, though, I kinda doubt it. He was not saying ones were better than the others, just saying they have different character.

08-25-2010, 10:26 PM	#40
SergioFromSF Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: San Francisco Photos: Albums Posts: 45	Thanks DogLover. I have a friend photographer who over the years (before digital) acquired a lot of Zeiss lenses, now he uses a DSLR (Nikon) with a couple of zoom lenses and that's seems to satisfy his needs, but doesn't want to give up his Zeiss lenses and always speaks with reverence about them, essentially using your words. I asked him if he wants to sell them to me so that I could try to use them on K-7 with adapter, but he said he will part with them only when he dies. I used to use manual focus back 30 years ago with Canon AE1-Program (still have it) and was pretty good at it, but it had a nice split screen and "dots circle" that helped in focusing a lot. I find that with current K-7 design, it's more difficult for me, unless it's a really close shot and I can see the details well. Anyway, I was asking because I am looking for prime lens between 28mm and 35mm. So far DA35 seems a good candidate.

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08-26-2010, 12:08 AM	#41
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	It is correct that both the Voigtlander and the Zeiss lenses are produced by Cosina. The price difference is mainly due to two things (AFAIK): 1. Cosina is using Zeiss/Schott glass. 2. The quality control is much tighter for the Zeiss lenses. They are supervised in Japan, then sent to Germany where each lens is checked individually again and is getting a control certificate. This does not necessarily mean that the Voigtlander lenses are worse.

08-26-2010, 04:00 AM	#42
Zav Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,371	Originally posted by blende8 It is correct that both the Voigtlander and the Zeiss lenses are produced by Cosina. The price difference is mainly due to two things (AFAIK): 1. Cosina is using Zeiss/Schott glass. Do you have more information about this? I sometimes hear it but never had evidence of it.

08-26-2010, 05:07 AM	#43
ghelary Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 613	Originally posted by blende8 It is correct that both the Voigtlander and the Zeiss lenses are produced by Cosina. The price difference is mainly due to two things (AFAIK): 1. Cosina is using Zeiss/Schott glass. 2. The quality control is much tighter for the Zeiss lenses. They are supervised in Japan, then sent to Germany where each lens is checked individually again and is getting a control certificate. This does not necessarily mean that the Voigtlander lenses are worse. I discussed with a Leica user who said that he gave up on Cosina lenses (read Voigtlander) after 2 when each of them got alignment issues. Quality control is at a price. Voigtlander lenses have also a Japanese bokej (creamy) while Zeiss lenses have a much nervous one with sharper transition from in focus to out of focus, that gives Zeiss lenses a pronunced "3D" feeling compared to similar lenses.

08-26-2010, 05:12 AM	#44
ewalk Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 316	Speaking of Cosina: Cosina joins Micro Four Thirds system: Digital Photography Review They also announced a native 25mm f/0.95 for the m4/3 mount. I've also heard rumblings that Zeiss is going to introduce a native series of primes for Sony's E-Mount. It's a little funny how all of a sudden there are plenty of legitimate digital rangefinder-esque options.

08-26-2010, 05:34 AM	#45
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by Zav Do you have more information about this? I sometimes hear it but never had evidence of it. http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/Lens_Production/$File/Lens_Production.pdf Quote: We purchase our optical glass preferably from the Schott Glass Works. Of particular importance here are the optical properties of the different glass materials and their tolerances. When choosing our suppliers, we also take into account their delivery capabilities and delivery times, their prices and the environmental soundness of their products. In our optical production, we currently process 114 types of optical glass with different refractive indices, color dispersion, weight, etc. This results in a spectrum of approx. 350 different types of lens elements with approx. 700 different radii. Each lens consists of several optical glass materials and crystals, with some almost as heavy as steel and others more expensive than gold. We mainly process pressings for serially produced camera lenses. Glass blocks are used for the production of prototypes and special components. The blocks are first cut into plates which are then rounded and further processed to produce lens elements.