ePHOTOzine: K-7 vs. D90 vs. 550D

CWyatt · 08-24-2010, 05:54 PM - **1 Like**

I've seen so many terrible reviews but this took the cake (for recently anyway), and I had the time today, being at home sick, so I signed up for the site and told them how bad this review is.

pcarfan · 08-24-2010, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by CWyatt

I've seen so many terrible reviews but this took the cake (for recently anyway), and I had the time today, being at home sick, so I signed up for the site and told them how bad this review is.

I am glad you just posted the facts in a calm manner. In my experience Ephotozine is not biased, but they definitely screwed this up quite a bit.

F-Stop · 08-24-2010, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by CWyatt

At the risk of generalising, your exposure problems sounds a lot like user error on the face of it.
The meters are very accurate if you know how to use it. It's all relative to mid-tone grey...

Don't get me wrong, I've taken some amazing shots with either camera. I just cannot rely on any of the three metering modes for correct exposure mostly during outdoor/landscape photography and expect to nail it more than 50-60% of the time. I've taken around 30,000 photos between the K100D and K20D and then double that in 'preview' shots due to exposure issues.

If there's something I'm doing wrong then I'm all ears/eyes. I'm basing my judgement on real world results from myself and what an average or perhaps in this case advanced user has shown.

Transit · 08-24-2010, 06:26 PM

Anyone planning a polite 'Letter to the Editor' pointing out the iso and buffer issues are sorted in settings ?... Or an impolite one suggesting his reviewer rtfm

cheers
Pete

Last edited by Transit; 08-24-2010 at 06:36 PM.

rawr · 08-24-2010, 06:27 PM

It's weird that a credible site would take so much time and effort to conduct all those photographic test shots, and yet not spend five minutes reading the manual - to learn things like enabling ISO 100, and optimising the camera for maximum fps by turning off lens corrections etc. And were they using an identical brand and model fast SD card in all cameras?

The concept is very good - I like real world comparative tests that focus on image quality, rather than camera body features and gizmos - but they need to take more care in learning and setting up the cameras they use.

enoeske · 08-24-2010, 06:42 PM

Pentax K20D vs Canon 40D

I had some real problems using the 40D. For one thing, there doesn't seem to be any way to change the aperture. Consequently, the exposure of the 40D was way off. I tried pressing the "play" button but that didn't do it. The pentax was easy to change with 2 wheels within easy reach. This allowed me to have well exposed shots, something the 40D couldn't do.

Also, the canon wasn't very sharp. I was using the 18-55mm kit lens wide open at f/5.6 and at the minimum focusing distance. The shots were just soft. In comparison, the pentax 40mm limited at f/5.6 was very sharp. Its sad that canon cannot get the same sharpness as the pentax. I even tried upping the "sharpness" in the jpeg settings, but it didn't seem to help.

In AF-C and continuous shooting mode, the pentax could take many shots without slowing. By comparison, the canon could only do 1. I would really think a camera as pricey as the 40D could take more than 1 shot at a time. Again, I didn't read the manual and just assumed the camera was set up in continuous shooting mode. And the worst part was, the canon could only go down to ISO 400. Yes, the 40D has no ISO 100 - 399, it starts at 400. And it only goes up to 500. And the pentax gives you free kittens.

...............

See I can write awesome unbiased reviews too.

CWyatt · 08-24-2010, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by rawr

The concept is very good - I like real world comparative tests that focus on image quality, rather than camera body features and gizmos - but they need to take more care in learning and setting up the cameras they use.

The concept seems fair, and if it was done well may be, but in reality these 'comparisons' usually come out as just small and pointless reviews of each camera, when they are much more valuable and in-depth reviews elsewhere.

I also don't care about the 'gizmos', in-camera HDR etc. However I DO care about the body. 100% viewfinder, sealing, two finger dials, small size and a very quiet shutter are things I would like at least mentioned as well as IQ, as they're the reason I think the K-7 is the top street photography DSLR available.

Originally posted by F-Stop

Don't get me wrong, I've taken some amazing shots with either camera. I just cannot rely on any of the three metering modes for correct exposure mostly during outdoor/landscape photography and expect to nail it more than 50-60% of the time. I've taken around 30,000 photos between the K100D and K20D and then double that in 'preview' shots due to exposure issues.

If there's something I'm doing wrong then I'm all ears/eyes. I'm basing my judgement on real world results from myself and what an average or perhaps in this case advanced user has shown.

You would need to do another thread with some examples for accurate advice, but this is quite surprising. Pentax does seem to tend towards under rather than over exposure, BUT the meters are very accurate. The spot meter especially is superbly accurate in my experience. You do know cameras can only see mid-tone grey? If you shoot a bird, reading off a bright sky with no compensation on an auto-based setting like Av, I'd expect you to not get much on the histogram past half way.

dnaseigel · 08-24-2010, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

Pentax K20D vs Canon 40D

I had some real problems using the 40D. For one thing, there doesn't seem to be any way to change the aperture. Consequently, the exposure of the 40D was way off. I tried pressing the "play" button but that didn't do it. The pentax was easy to change with 2 wheels within easy reach. This allowed me to have well exposed shots, something the 40D couldn't do.

Also, the canon wasn't very sharp. I was using the 18-55mm kit lens wide open at f/5.6 and at the minimum focusing distance. The shots were just soft. In comparison, the pentax 40mm limited at f/5.6 was very sharp. Its sad that canon cannot get the same sharpness as the pentax. I even tried upping the "sharpness" in the jpeg settings, but it didn't seem to help.

In AF-C and continuous shooting mode, the pentax could take many shots without slowing. By comparison, the canon could only do 1. I would really think a camera as pricey as the 40D could take more than 1 shot at a time. Again, I didn't read the manual and just assumed the camera was set up in continuous shooting mode. And the worst part was, the canon could only go down to ISO 400. Yes, the 40D has no ISO 100 - 399, it starts at 400. And it only goes up to 500. And the pentax gives you free kittens.

...............

See I can write awesome unbiased reviews too.

Yours gives you free kittens? I'd return it. It's supposed to give you Unicorns...or maybe it was candy corns. I can't recall since that mode becomes disabled when the ISO is set to 399 which is the best ISO to use in all situations.

Bramela · 08-24-2010, 07:40 PM

Not biased, however just total incompetance iMHO. Ignore it totally.

Braddokovik · 08-24-2010, 07:40 PM

I'm not sure about how how the K7 managed to come up so badly!

I would go for the pixel peepers over at dpreview any day over this bunch. Sloppy stuff!

*DPreview for D90 showed that the D300 had better IQ than the D90.
*K20D better than D90 in resolution in the DPreview review of the D90.

Yet IQ for the K7 lags well behind both the D90 and the 550D?

It just doesn't add up.

And I agree with you CWyatt... to completely ignore the weather sealing of both body and lens as well as the more complete feature set? How about the fact that D90 and K7 have pentaprisms?

And custom WB. The pentax gets told off for correctly balancing the colours adjusting for the colour cast of ambient light? The Canon gets marks for putting a slight yellowish (and technically incorrect) hue on the foreground which is 'pleasing'.Its the photographers job to chose a the colour adjustment they are after to get a 'pleasing' result. Am I missing something?

I just don't think these guys knew how to use the dang thing!

Transit · 08-24-2010, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by enoeske

Pentax K20D vs Canon 40D

.....
See I can write awesome unbiased reviews too.

excellent comparison!
We should let idiocy get in the way of things even more often !
I didn't use my K100D for years as it needs AA batteries and they are no longer available

Braddokovik · 08-24-2010, 07:46 PM

My pentax K20D does AF far better with my DA lenses than the Canon 40D... poor showing!

CWyatt · 08-24-2010, 08:18 PM

The annoying thing is this may mean less Pentax's bought by inexperienced or more likely unaware purchasers. For a brand with a small market share making good products, you need some fair commentary.

While I don't think this is deliberate bias, I think it's an unconscious bias. I would say that if the reviewer bought what was meant to be a 'semi-pro' Canon/Nikon and they only got four shots before a buffer was full, they would likely look into it. If it 'lagged' as much as they say the K-7 does, they would look into it. But because it's a third-brand body they just take it for granted it's probably rubbish without even checking out the real specs.

Weird though, one poster on that site says they shoot Pentax and run the site. God knows what they use, and how they didn't pick up all the errors. Maybe an older body like a K10D.

ogl · 08-24-2010, 08:32 PM

This is GOOD sample of very UNPROFESSIONAL comparision....

I have a look at noise test - D90 has f/11 at ISO200, K-7 has f/16 and there is hugh difference in exposure... and et.c. Nothing to see.

Why no ISO100 at K-7???

They had CA, shadow and highlight correction turned on at K-7 and then tested....Oh...My God...

From comments

There are basic factual errors: The K-7 shoots ISO 100, if you can't access ISO 100 you most likely have shadow and highlight correction turned on. This a a software setting for JPEGs which will affect images considerably with regards to dynamic range, noise and overall exposure. You may also have had things like CA correction and lens distortion correction turned on? Again a JPEG software setting which will change the ouput, buffer etc.

And yet you haven't mentioned these settings. Like you don't mention in-camera shake reduction, weather sealing (camera or lens), 100% viewfinder, older lens compatibility... the list could go on.

Are you normally shooting with all the settings at default in-camera JPEG? It's pretty much not testing how noisy the sensor is here, but the default in-camera noise reduction. Proper tests show the K-7 in RAW is very similar to D300S and 7D, with perhaps slightly more noise and detail retention.
And the Nikon had quite a different lens.

And I have no idea how you managed FOUR shots in continuous shooting before a buffer jam. My K-7 with a 'fast SDHC' card shoots about FIFTEEN RAW files at 1/8000 second (so with no frame-rate slowness due to shutter speed) before any buffer issue. No indication of number of in-focus shots on here either.

No attempt to discuss any other factors like build quality, audible noise, ergonomics etc etc.

K-9 · 08-24-2010, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by F-Stop

I think this is the best review of a Pentax camera to date as it shows how bad they deal with metering/dynamic range. It's the same reason I hate my K100D and K20D. I'm always trying to compensate by dialing in +0.3-1.0 EV. I might as well forget about a sky and horizon shots or a bird in flight in Av mode as it's just going to fail so I have to switch to Manual.

I love the build quality and ergonomics but I'm beyond frustrated with underexposed shots like in this review. It is for this reason I don't recommend Pentax when asked by friends. I hope what ever new comes out doesn't have this same pitfall.

Glad I'm not the only one disgusted with the K20D's metering. It's atrocious. I get more exposure reliability from my Nokia cell phone's cam. Surprised to see the K-7 beat one of those other brands in this test, which probably means the K-7 is superior to the K20d as far as metering. Let's hope the K-5 is the best yet, as I am considering upgrading to that, or a Nikon soon.

Of course, I am sure everyone realizes, that regardless of the better camera, Pentax never beats Canon or Nikon in any magazine or website tests.

08-24-2010, 08:18 PM	#28
CWyatt Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,291	The annoying thing is this may mean less Pentax's bought by inexperienced or more likely unaware purchasers. For a brand with a small market share making good products, you need some fair commentary. While I don't think this is deliberate bias, I think it's an unconscious bias. I would say that if the reviewer bought what was meant to be a 'semi-pro' Canon/Nikon and they only got four shots before a buffer was full, they would likely look into it. If it 'lagged' as much as they say the K-7 does, they would look into it. But because it's a third-brand body they just take it for granted it's probably rubbish without even checking out the real specs. Weird though, one poster on that site says they shoot Pentax and run the site. God knows what they use, and how they didn't pick up all the errors. Maybe an older body like a K10D. Last edited by CWyatt; 08-24-2010 at 10:23 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
ephotozine k-x review	Myoptimism	Pentax News and Rumors	77	11-12-2009 03:38 PM
ePhotozine DSLR group test	Camera lucida	Pentax DSLR Discussion	4	08-27-2009 08:18 AM
ephotozine k-7 review	mutedphotos	Pentax News and Rumors	49	07-02-2009 03:15 AM
Pentax K-m review on ePhotozine	DroolingCrow	Pentax DSLR Discussion	2	05-12-2009 07:34 AM
Ephotozine K20d Review	Vespa125125	Pentax News and Rumors	1	02-17-2008 11:18 AM

08-24-2010, 05:54 PM - 1 Like	#16
CWyatt Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,291	I've seen so many terrible reviews but this took the cake (for recently anyway), and I had the time today, being at home sick, so I signed up for the site and told them how bad this review is.

08-24-2010, 06:08 PM	#17
pcarfan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dayton, Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,978	Originally posted by CWyatt I've seen so many terrible reviews but this took the cake (for recently anyway), and I had the time today, being at home sick, so I signed up for the site and told them how bad this review is. I am glad you just posted the facts in a calm manner. In my experience Ephotozine is not biased, but they definitely screwed this up quite a bit.

08-24-2010, 06:19 PM	#18
F-Stop Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Paradise, Newfoundland, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 303	Originally posted by CWyatt At the risk of generalising, your exposure problems sounds a lot like user error on the face of it. The meters are very accurate if you know how to use it. It's all relative to mid-tone grey... Don't get me wrong, I've taken some amazing shots with either camera. I just cannot rely on any of the three metering modes for correct exposure mostly during outdoor/landscape photography and expect to nail it more than 50-60% of the time. I've taken around 30,000 photos between the K100D and K20D and then double that in 'preview' shots due to exposure issues. If there's something I'm doing wrong then I'm all ears/eyes. I'm basing my judgement on real world results from myself and what an average or perhaps in this case advanced user has shown.

08-24-2010, 06:26 PM	#19
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Anyone planning a polite 'Letter to the Editor' pointing out the iso and buffer issues are sorted in settings ?... Or an impolite one suggesting his reviewer rtfm cheers Pete Last edited by Transit; 08-24-2010 at 06:36 PM.

08-24-2010, 06:27 PM	#20
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	It's weird that a credible site would take so much time and effort to conduct all those photographic test shots, and yet not spend five minutes reading the manual - to learn things like enabling ISO 100, and optimising the camera for maximum fps by turning off lens corrections etc. And were they using an identical brand and model fast SD card in all cameras? The concept is very good - I like real world comparative tests that focus on image quality, rather than camera body features and gizmos - but they need to take more care in learning and setting up the cameras they use.

08-24-2010, 06:42 PM	#21
enoeske Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Surprise, Az Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,136	Pentax K20D vs Canon 40D I had some real problems using the 40D. For one thing, there doesn't seem to be any way to change the aperture. Consequently, the exposure of the 40D was way off. I tried pressing the "play" button but that didn't do it. The pentax was easy to change with 2 wheels within easy reach. This allowed me to have well exposed shots, something the 40D couldn't do. Also, the canon wasn't very sharp. I was using the 18-55mm kit lens wide open at f/5.6 and at the minimum focusing distance. The shots were just soft. In comparison, the pentax 40mm limited at f/5.6 was very sharp. Its sad that canon cannot get the same sharpness as the pentax. I even tried upping the "sharpness" in the jpeg settings, but it didn't seem to help. In AF-C and continuous shooting mode, the pentax could take many shots without slowing. By comparison, the canon could only do 1. I would really think a camera as pricey as the 40D could take more than 1 shot at a time. Again, I didn't read the manual and just assumed the camera was set up in continuous shooting mode. And the worst part was, the canon could only go down to ISO 400. Yes, the 40D has no ISO 100 - 399, it starts at 400. And it only goes up to 500. And the pentax gives you free kittens. ............... See I can write awesome unbiased reviews too.

08-24-2010, 06:52 PM	#22
CWyatt Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,291	Originally posted by rawr The concept is very good - I like real world comparative tests that focus on image quality, rather than camera body features and gizmos - but they need to take more care in learning and setting up the cameras they use. The concept seems fair, and if it was done well may be, but in reality these 'comparisons' usually come out as just small and pointless reviews of each camera, when they are much more valuable and in-depth reviews elsewhere. I also don't care about the 'gizmos', in-camera HDR etc. However I DO care about the body. 100% viewfinder, sealing, two finger dials, small size and a very quiet shutter are things I would like at least mentioned as well as IQ, as they're the reason I think the K-7 is the top street photography DSLR available. Originally posted by F-Stop Don't get me wrong, I've taken some amazing shots with either camera. I just cannot rely on any of the three metering modes for correct exposure mostly during outdoor/landscape photography and expect to nail it more than 50-60% of the time. I've taken around 30,000 photos between the K100D and K20D and then double that in 'preview' shots due to exposure issues. If there's something I'm doing wrong then I'm all ears/eyes. I'm basing my judgement on real world results from myself and what an average or perhaps in this case advanced user has shown. You would need to do another thread with some examples for accurate advice, but this is quite surprising. Pentax does seem to tend towards under rather than over exposure, BUT the meters are very accurate. The spot meter especially is superbly accurate in my experience. You do know cameras can only see mid-tone grey? If you shoot a bird, reading off a bright sky with no compensation on an auto-based setting like Av, I'd expect you to not get much on the histogram past half way.

08-24-2010, 07:20 PM	#23
dnaseigel Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Rockford, IL Photos: Gallery Posts: 179	Originally posted by enoeske Pentax K20D vs Canon 40D I had some real problems using the 40D. For one thing, there doesn't seem to be any way to change the aperture. Consequently, the exposure of the 40D was way off. I tried pressing the "play" button but that didn't do it. The pentax was easy to change with 2 wheels within easy reach. This allowed me to have well exposed shots, something the 40D couldn't do. Also, the canon wasn't very sharp. I was using the 18-55mm kit lens wide open at f/5.6 and at the minimum focusing distance. The shots were just soft. In comparison, the pentax 40mm limited at f/5.6 was very sharp. Its sad that canon cannot get the same sharpness as the pentax. I even tried upping the "sharpness" in the jpeg settings, but it didn't seem to help. In AF-C and continuous shooting mode, the pentax could take many shots without slowing. By comparison, the canon could only do 1. I would really think a camera as pricey as the 40D could take more than 1 shot at a time. Again, I didn't read the manual and just assumed the camera was set up in continuous shooting mode. And the worst part was, the canon could only go down to ISO 400. Yes, the 40D has no ISO 100 - 399, it starts at 400. And it only goes up to 500. And the pentax gives you free kittens. ............... See I can write awesome unbiased reviews too. Yours gives you free kittens? I'd return it. It's supposed to give you Unicorns...or maybe it was candy corns. I can't recall since that mode becomes disabled when the ISO is set to 399 which is the best ISO to use in all situations.

08-24-2010, 07:40 PM	#24
Bramela Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Newcastle Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,284	Not biased, however just total incompetance iMHO. Ignore it totally.

08-24-2010, 07:40 PM	#25
Braddokovik Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 77	I'm not sure about how how the K7 managed to come up so badly! I would go for the pixel peepers over at dpreview any day over this bunch. Sloppy stuff! DPreview for D90 showed that the D300 had better IQ than the D90. K20D better than D90 in resolution in the DPreview review of the D90. Yet IQ for the K7 lags well behind both the D90 and the 550D? It just doesn't add up. And I agree with you CWyatt... to completely ignore the weather sealing of both body and lens as well as the more complete feature set? How about the fact that D90 and K7 have pentaprisms? And custom WB. The pentax gets told off for correctly balancing the colours adjusting for the colour cast of ambient light? The Canon gets marks for putting a slight yellowish (and technically incorrect) hue on the foreground which is 'pleasing'.Its the photographers job to chose a the colour adjustment they are after to get a 'pleasing' result. Am I missing something? I just don't think these guys knew how to use the dang thing!

08-24-2010, 07:41 PM	#26
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Originally posted by enoeske Pentax K20D vs Canon 40D ..... See I can write awesome unbiased reviews too. excellent comparison! We should let idiocy get in the way of things even more often ! I didn't use my K100D for years as it needs AA batteries and they are no longer available

08-24-2010, 07:46 PM	#27
Braddokovik Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 77	My pentax K20D does AF far better with my DA lenses than the Canon 40D... poor showing!

08-24-2010, 08:32 PM	#29
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	This is GOOD sample of very UNPROFESSIONAL comparision.... I have a look at noise test - D90 has f/11 at ISO200, K-7 has f/16 and there is hugh difference in exposure... and et.c. Nothing to see. Why no ISO100 at K-7??? They had CA, shadow and highlight correction turned on at K-7 and then tested....Oh...My God... From comments There are basic factual errors: The K-7 shoots ISO 100, if you can't access ISO 100 you most likely have shadow and highlight correction turned on. This a a software setting for JPEGs which will affect images considerably with regards to dynamic range, noise and overall exposure. You may also have had things like CA correction and lens distortion correction turned on? Again a JPEG software setting which will change the ouput, buffer etc. And yet you haven't mentioned these settings. Like you don't mention in-camera shake reduction, weather sealing (camera or lens), 100% viewfinder, older lens compatibility... the list could go on. Are you normally shooting with all the settings at default in-camera JPEG? It's pretty much not testing how noisy the sensor is here, but the default in-camera noise reduction. Proper tests show the K-7 in RAW is very similar to D300S and 7D, with perhaps slightly more noise and detail retention. And the Nikon had quite a different lens. And I have no idea how you managed FOUR shots in continuous shooting before a buffer jam. My K-7 with a 'fast SDHC' card shoots about FIFTEEN RAW files at 1/8000 second (so with no frame-rate slowness due to shutter speed) before any buffer issue. No indication of number of in-focus shots on here either. No attempt to discuss any other factors like build quality, audible noise, ergonomics etc etc.

08-24-2010, 08:36 PM	#30
K-9 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: USA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,971	Originally posted by F-Stop I think this is the best review of a Pentax camera to date as it shows how bad they deal with metering/dynamic range. It's the same reason I hate my K100D and K20D. I'm always trying to compensate by dialing in +0.3-1.0 EV. I might as well forget about a sky and horizon shots or a bird in flight in Av mode as it's just going to fail so I have to switch to Manual. I love the build quality and ergonomics but I'm beyond frustrated with underexposed shots like in this review. It is for this reason I don't recommend Pentax when asked by friends. I hope what ever new comes out doesn't have this same pitfall. Glad I'm not the only one disgusted with the K20D's metering. It's atrocious. I get more exposure reliability from my Nokia cell phone's cam. Surprised to see the K-7 beat one of those other brands in this test, which probably means the K-7 is superior to the K20d as far as metering. Let's hope the K-5 is the best yet, as I am considering upgrading to that, or a Nikon soon. Of course, I am sure everyone realizes, that regardless of the better camera, Pentax never beats Canon or Nikon in any magazine or website tests.