Articulating LCD ?

agsy · 08-26-2010, 05:59 AM

I also vote for articulating LCD. You really miss it when you get used to it and then you switch to a camera without articulating screen.

Caat · 08-26-2010, 06:01 AM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

Yeah why be against it? If anything the people who wish there wasn't one would probably appreciate being able to turn the LCD around, set the camera to M mode permanently and pretend it is 1970!

Its probably because it's a potential point of weakness and wear, and generally speaking it reduces the potential size of the screen (partly because the screen bezel and hinge mechanims both take up space).

Additionally with the generally poor CD AF in DSLRs shooting in live-view in normal everday situations is less preferable than using the viewfinder and so vari-angle screens are only of use in some situations.

Of course when they are useful they are useful, they wouldn't exist otherwise. Personally I'd use it for macro shooting and that's it.

Zebooka · 08-26-2010, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by ManuH

I don't understand people against articulating screens. It's just like video, if you don't like it you don't have to use it. In many situations I wished I had one, I tried mirrors and angled viewfinders but they are not as useful IMHO. And the Oly E-3 proved that WR and durability are possible.

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

Vaikis_ · 08-26-2010, 06:11 AM

Originally posted by Zebooka

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

don't worry, there won't be Articulating LCD's in new Pentax cameras

RBellavance · 08-26-2010, 06:12 AM

Originally posted by Caat

Its probably because it's a potential point of weakness and wear, and generally speaking it reduces the potential size of the screen (partly because the screen bezel and hinge mechanims both take up space).

Originally posted by Zebooka

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Sums up pretty well why I don't wish for one either.

**ManuH** · 08-26-2010, 06:15 AM

OK here is one shot I did with a mini tripod, K-7 and the DA 15mm. It would have been so much easier with an articulated screen. I couldn't use the VF as the camera was too low and I was not prepared to lay down on my chest, I'm getting too old for that

If Canon had small primes I would even consider a 60D for that feature alone.

**ManuH** · 08-26-2010, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by Zebooka

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

1) so little, heck it's available on much more compact cameras than a DSLR.
2) your assumption. Not necessarily true because you can use it to protect the LCD when not using the camera.
3) your assumption. WR is not waterproofing.

Rupert · 08-26-2010, 06:29 AM

Don't need it.....don't want it. Just one more thing to break for a use that would be seldom at best. The LCD is worthless in bright sunlight anyhow, which would just leave you with a worthless extension on your camera for any outdoor daylight shooting.

Casio makes an LCD that is fully usable in the brightest of sun, I have used one, and I don't know why we can't get that instead?
Regards

pxpaulx · 08-26-2010, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by Zebooka

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

I think those are all pretty weak. If you take a look at the new releases and current existing high end cameras with articulating LCDs, they do not add any significant bulk either at the hinge area nor do they stick out an appreciable amount. Scared it'll break? Don't use it. And finally if you're scared of weakened weather resistance on something you'll never use, how do you ever bring yourself to click the shutter or turn a dial?

pxpaulx · 08-26-2010, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Rupert

Don't need it.....don't want it. Just one more thing to break for a use that would be seldom at best. The LCD is worthless in bright sunlight anyhow, which would just leave you with a worthless extension on your camera for any outdoor daylight shooting.

Casio makes an LCD that is fully usable in the brightest of sun, I have used one, and I don't know why we can't get that instead?
Regards

Why not articulate an LCD that is usable in bright sunlight then? You talk as if rather than using current LCDs in bright sun, it would be preferable just to not have one at all. In that case the articulating design should be great - turn it around, glue it down and forget LCDs were ever invented.

pxpaulx · 08-26-2010, 06:37 AM

As a general statement, taking a look at the latest announcements it is clear, like video in the past year, articulating screens will be the next must-have. If you want the brand you use to survive, you are going to have to live with these, and future 'compromises.' So, either stock up on a half dozen K7s now, or live with new developments and 'improvements' in future models. I don't think anyone's cameras have ceased taking photos due to added video capability, and I am sure forthcoming models will continue to function despite having articulated LCDs.

RMabo · 08-26-2010, 06:38 AM

It is more complicated to weather seal a LCD screen on a moving arm than one that is integrated with camera body. Weather sealing a separate LCD would also take up more space. There are no models on the market today that combines articulated LCD screens with weather sealing, and there are of course sound reasons for that.

Since Pentax K-5 will be weather sealed, I don't believe in a moving back LCD for it.
Reducing the size of the LCD screen to have room for both the moving mechanism and the weather sealing, is not really an option here - I feel. Not only the LCD screen needs to be protected but also the arm that contains the electronics for the communication between body and LCD screen.

nickthetasmaniac · 08-26-2010, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Zebooka

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

Speaking solely in terms of the E-3, it actually does the opposite for #2 and #3, because there doesn't need to be a hole in the body for a fixed LCD screen, meaning that you can have a completely solid rear plate; making it both very rigid and very well sealed. For what it's worth, I've stood on my E-3 accidentally (all 100kg of me) with no ill-effects...

Originally posted by RMabo

There are no models on the market today that combines articulated LCD screens with weather sealing, and there are of course sound reasons for that.

Ummm well actually...

E-3, including (rather good) weathersealing and articulated screen. I might get a housing one day...

pxpaulx · 08-26-2010, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by RMabo

It is more complicated to weather seal a LCD screen on a moving arm than one that is integrated with camera body. Weather sealing a separate LCD would also take up more space. There are no models on the market today that combines articulated LCD screens with weather sealing, and there are of course sound reasons for that.

Since Pentax K-5 will be weather sealed, I don't believe in a moving back LCD for it.
Reducing the size of the LCD screen to have room for both the moving mechanism and the weather sealing, is not really an option here - I feel. Not only the LCD screen needs to be protected but also the arm that contains the electronics for the communication between body and LCD screen.

I wouldn't have a problem if there were not LCD on the high end model (with all of the above said). Pentax's entry level cameras have always punched up a level from their market segment anyway, so putting it in the entry level model would make sense.

My handheld GPS has completely exposed electronic contacts for the USB connection, but it is sealed to a higher standard than the weather sealed pentax cameras (the contacts are similar to those on the battery grip terminal). I think it can be done, but on a higher end model it can also be left out and there wouldn't be too many complaints.

**Aristophanes** · 08-26-2010, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Zebooka

1) It increases camera's size
2) It weakens camera's durability
3) It weakens camera's weather resistance.

Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

1) Some of the smallest DSLR or DSLR-like cams have them. So, no, this is not always the case. Your making a generalization that is simply not true.

2) Not sure about that. If you are worried, don't articulate. That is a viable option. I had a Canon Asomething (85?) years ago where the screen went funny after 1 month. It was in and out of the warranty repair in 20 minutes because all they had to do was replace the LCD. Much easier to service than a permanently mounted screen, that's for sure.

Also, for ergonomically difficult and low-angle, high-angle shots, one could make a very valid argument that an articulating screen actually makes the shot easier, and therefore it is less likely the camera body will be placed in a riskier position.

3) It's one less long seal around the LCD bezel vs. a small perforation for the wire feed. The LCD bezel could actually be more WR apart from the body of the camera. That may be an advantage.

The knock against articulating screens is fragility; the screen has the option to extend, and therefore leverage with force sufficient to break is more likely. There is yet another moving part in the hinge.

And cost. They add a modest amount to the material and assembly, so that gets passed on tot he customer.

I think it is simply a matter of time before all advanced cameras have an articulating rear LCD. Super thin bezels with OLED screens entrenched across the industry will make it a cost-effective, no-brainer option.

08-26-2010, 06:42 AM	#28
nickthetasmaniac Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 2,361	Originally posted by Zebooka 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything. Speaking solely in terms of the E-3, it actually does the opposite for #2 and #3, because there doesn't need to be a hole in the body for a fixed LCD screen, meaning that you can have a completely solid rear plate; making it both very rigid and very well sealed. For what it's worth, I've stood on my E-3 accidentally (all 100kg of me) with no ill-effects... Originally posted by RMabo There are no models on the market today that combines articulated LCD screens with weather sealing, and there are of course sound reasons for that. Ummm well actually... E-3, including (rather good) weathersealing and articulated screen. I might get a housing one day... Last edited by nickthetasmaniac; 08-26-2010 at 06:49 AM.

08-26-2010, 06:46 AM	#29
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by RMabo It is more complicated to weather seal a LCD screen on a moving arm than one that is integrated with camera body. Weather sealing a separate LCD would also take up more space. There are no models on the market today that combines articulated LCD screens with weather sealing, and there are of course sound reasons for that. Since Pentax K-5 will be weather sealed, I don't believe in a moving back LCD for it. Reducing the size of the LCD screen to have room for both the moving mechanism and the weather sealing, is not really an option here - I feel. Not only the LCD screen needs to be protected but also the arm that contains the electronics for the communication between body and LCD screen. I wouldn't have a problem if there were not LCD on the high end model (with all of the above said). Pentax's entry level cameras have always punched up a level from their market segment anyway, so putting it in the entry level model would make sense. My handheld GPS has completely exposed electronic contacts for the USB connection, but it is sealed to a higher standard than the weather sealed pentax cameras (the contacts are similar to those on the battery grip terminal). I think it can be done, but on a higher end model it can also be left out and there wouldn't be too many complaints. Last edited by pxpaulx; 08-26-2010 at 06:54 AM.

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08-26-2010, 05:59 AM	#16
agsy Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 551	I also vote for articulating LCD. You really miss it when you get used to it and then you switch to a camera without articulating screen.

08-26-2010, 06:01 AM	#17
Caat Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United Kingdom Photos: Albums Posts: 927	Originally posted by pxpaulx Yeah why be against it? If anything the people who wish there wasn't one would probably appreciate being able to turn the LCD around, set the camera to M mode permanently and pretend it is 1970! Its probably because it's a potential point of weakness and wear, and generally speaking it reduces the potential size of the screen (partly because the screen bezel and hinge mechanims both take up space). Additionally with the generally poor CD AF in DSLRs shooting in live-view in normal everday situations is less preferable than using the viewfinder and so vari-angle screens are only of use in some situations. Of course when they are useful they are useful, they wouldn't exist otherwise. Personally I'd use it for macro shooting and that's it.

08-26-2010, 06:08 AM	#18
Zebooka Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Russia, Siberia, Novosibirsk Posts: 323	Originally posted by ManuH I don't understand people against articulating screens. It's just like video, if you don't like it you don't have to use it. In many situations I wished I had one, I tried mirrors and angled viewfinders but they are not as useful IMHO. And the Oly E-3 proved that WR and durability are possible. 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything.

08-26-2010, 06:11 AM	#19
Vaikis_ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 213	Originally posted by Zebooka 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything. don't worry, there won't be Articulating LCD's in new Pentax cameras

08-26-2010, 06:12 AM	#20
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by Caat Its probably because it's a potential point of weakness and wear, and generally speaking it reduces the potential size of the screen (partly because the screen bezel and hinge mechanims both take up space). Originally posted by Zebooka 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Sums up pretty well why I don't wish for one either.

08-26-2010, 06:15 AM	#21
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	OK here is one shot I did with a mini tripod, K-7 and the DA 15mm. It would have been so much easier with an articulated screen. I couldn't use the VF as the camera was too low and I was not prepared to lay down on my chest, I'm getting too old for that If Canon had small primes I would even consider a 60D for that feature alone.

08-26-2010, 06:21 AM	#22
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by Zebooka 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything. 1) so little, heck it's available on much more compact cameras than a DSLR. 2) your assumption. Not necessarily true because you can use it to protect the LCD when not using the camera. 3) your assumption. WR is not waterproofing.

08-26-2010, 06:29 AM	#23
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Don't need it.....don't want it. Just one more thing to break for a use that would be seldom at best. The LCD is worthless in bright sunlight anyhow, which would just leave you with a worthless extension on your camera for any outdoor daylight shooting. Casio makes an LCD that is fully usable in the brightest of sun, I have used one, and I don't know why we can't get that instead? Regards

08-26-2010, 06:29 AM	#24
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by Zebooka 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything. I think those are all pretty weak. If you take a look at the new releases and current existing high end cameras with articulating LCDs, they do not add any significant bulk either at the hinge area nor do they stick out an appreciable amount. Scared it'll break? Don't use it. And finally if you're scared of weakened weather resistance on something you'll never use, how do you ever bring yourself to click the shutter or turn a dial?

08-26-2010, 06:32 AM	#25
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by Rupert Don't need it.....don't want it. Just one more thing to break for a use that would be seldom at best. The LCD is worthless in bright sunlight anyhow, which would just leave you with a worthless extension on your camera for any outdoor daylight shooting. Casio makes an LCD that is fully usable in the brightest of sun, I have used one, and I don't know why we can't get that instead? Regards Why not articulate an LCD that is usable in bright sunlight then? You talk as if rather than using current LCDs in bright sun, it would be preferable just to not have one at all. In that case the articulating design should be great - turn it around, glue it down and forget LCDs were ever invented.

08-26-2010, 06:37 AM	#26
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	As a general statement, taking a look at the latest announcements it is clear, like video in the past year, articulating screens will be the next must-have. If you want the brand you use to survive, you are going to have to live with these, and future 'compromises.' So, either stock up on a half dozen K7s now, or live with new developments and 'improvements' in future models. I don't think anyone's cameras have ceased taking photos due to added video capability, and I am sure forthcoming models will continue to function despite having articulated LCDs.

08-26-2010, 06:38 AM	#27
RMabo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 845	It is more complicated to weather seal a LCD screen on a moving arm than one that is integrated with camera body. Weather sealing a separate LCD would also take up more space. There are no models on the market today that combines articulated LCD screens with weather sealing, and there are of course sound reasons for that. Since Pentax K-5 will be weather sealed, I don't believe in a moving back LCD for it. Reducing the size of the LCD screen to have room for both the moving mechanism and the weather sealing, is not really an option here - I feel. Not only the LCD screen needs to be protected but also the arm that contains the electronics for the communication between body and LCD screen.

08-26-2010, 07:42 AM	#30
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Zebooka 1) It increases camera's size 2) It weakens camera's durability 3) It weakens camera's weather resistance. Thanks, but no. I need durable and reliable gear to take photos, not gadget for everything. 1) Some of the smallest DSLR or DSLR-like cams have them. So, no, this is not always the case. Your making a generalization that is simply not true. 2) Not sure about that. If you are worried, don't articulate. That is a viable option. I had a Canon Asomething (85?) years ago where the screen went funny after 1 month. It was in and out of the warranty repair in 20 minutes because all they had to do was replace the LCD. Much easier to service than a permanently mounted screen, that's for sure. Also, for ergonomically difficult and low-angle, high-angle shots, one could make a very valid argument that an articulating screen actually makes the shot easier, and therefore it is less likely the camera body will be placed in a riskier position. 3) It's one less long seal around the LCD bezel vs. a small perforation for the wire feed. The LCD bezel could actually be more WR apart from the body of the camera. That may be an advantage. The knock against articulating screens is fragility; the screen has the option to extend, and therefore leverage with force sufficient to break is more likely. There is yet another moving part in the hinge. And cost. They add a modest amount to the material and assembly, so that gets passed on tot he customer. I think it is simply a matter of time before all advanced cameras have an articulating rear LCD. Super thin bezels with OLED screens entrenched across the industry will make it a cost-effective, no-brainer option.