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08-26-2010, 07:52 AM   #31
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Look at the NEX 5 to see how much thicker a camera with an articulating screen is than one without.

Look at the E-3 to see how much less rigid and sealed a camera with an articulating screen is than one without.

Really, your fears that an articulating screen would somehow make the camera worse is unfounded. Yes, it would probably make it 5 EUR more expensive. Maybe even 10.

08-26-2010, 08:55 AM   #32
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I would love an articulating screen. It makes macro shooting a lot less painful. Liveview is perfect for macro, and having a tiltable/movable screen would make it even better. I for one would prefer if it came in a semi pro body.

I'm not sure everyone has thought about it, but for now there is a workaround for doing those difficult angles with lv: a portable dvd player with a video input! It has a lot less resolution and it's an extra item to carry with you, but I guess it's cheaper than buying a canon, nikon, sony or olympus with corresponding lens..

Everyone else has it - why shouldn't Pentax offer it as well?
08-26-2010, 09:02 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
Speaking solely in terms of the E-3, it actually does the opposite for #2 and #3, because there doesn't need to be a hole in the body for a fixed LCD screen, meaning that you can have a completely solid rear plate; making it both very rigid and very well sealed. For what it's worth, I've stood on my E-3 accidentally (all 100kg of me) with no ill-effects...
How do you stand on a camera accidentally?

For some of the reasons others have stated, I don't want a built-in articulated screen. I want a solid, compact body with a big integrated screen and no dangly bits.

I could get behind the idea of an optional accessory screen that attaches to the camera via HDMI (and a ball joint) and gives the same view the LCD would. Make it bigger too, like 5 or 6 inches, and power it from the camera.
08-26-2010, 09:06 AM   #34
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An external screen is only good for very static photography. I can say so with authority because I have one. And it's much more expensive. And exactly what would dangle if you just kept the articulating screen un-articulated and flush to the body?


Last edited by fzwo; 08-26-2010 at 09:12 AM.
08-26-2010, 10:05 AM   #35
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Given the hint from The Font of All Rumours, an external screen (whatever that may be when it's at home) may be in the works.

Sounds like one more thing for a field photographer to lose or break (both of which I do with embarrassing frequency) but I haven't seen what the Font is referring to.

Even a link to an iPod Touch or iPhone would be a pain - how many hands does one photographer have and how many cables does that photographer want to manage? My answer: two and nil.

I have this vision, though, of an external LCD attached to the brim of a hat, dangling in front of the photographer's eyes. The hat also contains a solar generator, GPS, cell antenna, radar dish, and rain collector feeding a hydration tank.

I wish I could draw ...... Sounds like Punch (Emett) meets DPR. Concept copyright G Langlois August 26 2010.
08-26-2010, 10:20 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
Yeah why be against it? If anything the people who wish there wasn't one would probably appreciate being able to turn the LCD around, set the camera to M mode permanently and pretend it is 1970!
Sure, I can see how it would be handy, but I don't need it.

However, yes, I'd love a manual only, digital version of the K1000. Is such a camera profitable? doubtful. one only has to look at the Leica M9 or X1 to see that.

Everyone has valid reasons for their preferences, and that's great - accept it. that's what drives a marketplace.

what I fear is that a manufacturer succombs to what's fashionable rather than to what is truly useful in a camera design - but even that is matter of opinion!
08-26-2010, 10:20 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by nickthetasmaniac Quote
Speaking solely in terms of the E-3, it actually does the opposite for #2 and #3, because there doesn't need to be a hole in the body for a fixed LCD screen, meaning that you can have a completely solid rear plate; making it both very rigid and very well sealed. For what it's worth, I've stood on my E-3 accidentally (all 100kg of me) with no ill-effects...
E-3 is a 4/3 body. It has 38mm focal flange, Pentax has 45,5mm.
Mean while E-3 is larger than K-7. Much larger (incl. that it has 2.0x crop sensor, while K-7 has 1.5x crop). Also if you add articulation you add 2 layers of thick plastic/metal cover, air between motherboard/screen and plastic/metal.

Yes, there is no hole for screen, but the screen itself is weaklier when it is opened.

As for E-3, I've heard stories of sunken LCD with water inside.



PS: Also such screen would increase body cost. (and we know Pentax can't even add AF-points illumination... )
08-26-2010, 10:30 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by emergo Quote
Sure, I can see how it would be handy, but I don't need it.

However, yes, I'd love a manual only, digital version of the K1000. Is such a camera profitable? doubtful. one only has to look at the Leica M9 or X1 to see that.

Everyone has valid reasons for their preferences, and that's great - accept it. that's what drives a marketplace.

what I fear is that a manufacturer succombs to what's fashionable rather than to what is truly useful in a camera design - but even that is matter of opinion!
The K1000 idea is interesting. Good primer for basic photographic principles - just like the first one. And fashionably retro.

But, in fact, manufacturers succumb to what will keep them financially healthy, meaning reasonably profitable. Not much point in keeping the doors open otherwise. And your lenders won't let you.

The LAST thing I want from Pentax is a line of truly useful cameras at great prices - a line that would cause the Pentax operation to fail financially and leave us all stranded. Of course someone would buy the name - and we'd end up being part of the Vivitar hegemony.

If Pentax will have a healthy support and R&D budget, I really don't care that some models have characteristics that cause some here to turn up their noses.

Anyway, I have a goofy-colored K-X and refuse to apologize for it!

08-26-2010, 10:41 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zebooka Quote
(and we know Pentax can't even add AF-points illumination... )
Boo. Hiss. (edit: not a mean boo, hiss!) the only people that ever cared about that were complainers who never would have bought the camera in the first place. get over it, move on.

Last edited by pxpaulx; 08-26-2010 at 10:54 AM.
08-26-2010, 10:49 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by pxpaulx Quote
Boo. Hiss. the only people that ever cared about that were complainers who never would have bought the camera in the first place. get over it, move on.
Please don't boo and hiss, OK?

"Only" is a very big word. I bought the camera anyway. And I miss the AF points, more than I expected.

And there are some that didn't buy the camera because reviewers or friends reported that the lack was a disadvantage, particularly to neophytes.

Marc S. to the contrary, entry-level folks will not necessarily spend time testing, noting, and memorizing the size and location of AF areas. So they bought something else. And we suffer a bit every time that money goes to someone other than Pentax. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, my friend.
08-26-2010, 11:21 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote


I could get behind the idea of an optional accessory screen that attaches to the camera via HDMI (and a ball joint) and gives the same view the LCD would. Make it bigger too, like 5 or 6 inches, and power it from the camera.
Yes, this sounds like a GREAT idea. I was hoping for an articulated screen, but I think I would be satisfied with a fixed screen with a high viewing angle (I shoot a K110 now). The accessory screen would be great because it wouldn't add to the bulk of the camera or get in the way except for the few situations in which it would be of benefit. I hope Pentax offers this - it could even be backwards-compatible with earlier models. Sounds like it could be a money-maker, too.
08-26-2010, 12:05 PM   #42
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I vote for a body with no built-in LCD screen, but includes a WIRELESS connection to a monitor. Keep the top LCD panel, and that's all the info you need to shoot. You end up with an extremely rugged camera that can take abuse, without worry of scratching or damaging giant LCD screen. Also, this should allow a thinner camera by several mms, I'll take that too. Get back to the *Ist D thickness, just keep the current deep grip of the K-7. If you know what you are doing, you won't even need to review photos after every shot. Makes it more challenging, forces you to be a better photographer. And you can then later on "develop" your photos in LR or whatever on the computer.

Or, if you really need to chimp w/o an external monitor...they could build an a small display (size of EVF) that can pop down where the focus screen is, so you can change between OVF and viewing shots. That way you get to chimp or preview images, but don't need to have the big LCD on the back. Although, this would be overly complex, so I would still vote for no display in/on the camera, requiring an external monitor. Of course, if they could build the display into the OVF with no extra moving parts (as some sort of overlay that can be turned off and completely transparent, that would be OK with me.

I promise Pentax that I would buy this camera. Perfect for hiking, to allow keeping the camera handy around the neck, but not have to baby it to protect the LCD.

Oh, and get rid of the on board flash while you are at it! Simplicity...ahhhh, beautiful.
08-26-2010, 12:44 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by arpaagent Quote
I vote for a body with no built-in LCD screen, but includes a WIRELESS connection to a monitor. Keep the top LCD panel, and that's all the info you need to shoot. You end up with an extremely rugged camera that can take abuse, without worry of scratching or damaging giant LCD screen. Also, this should allow a thinner camera by several mms, I'll take that too. Get back to the *Ist D thickness, just keep the current deep grip of the K-7. If you know what you are doing, you won't even need to review photos after every shot. Makes it more challenging, forces you to be a better photographer. And you can then later on "develop" your photos in LR or whatever on the computer.

Or, if you really need to chimp w/o an external monitor...they could build an a small display (size of EVF) that can pop down where the focus screen is, so you can change between OVF and viewing shots. That way you get to chimp or preview images, but don't need to have the big LCD on the back. Although, this would be overly complex, so I would still vote for no display in/on the camera, requiring an external monitor. Of course, if they could build the display into the OVF with no extra moving parts (as some sort of overlay that can be turned off and completely transparent, that would be OK with me.

I promise Pentax that I would buy this camera. Perfect for hiking, to allow keeping the camera handy around the neck, but not have to baby it to protect the LCD.

Oh, and get rid of the on board flash while you are at it! Simplicity...ahhhh, beautiful.
Everybody is free to dream for whatever they like, but seriously, how many of such a camera you believe Pentax will sell? I, like many others, do not need the video but we all know none of the players can drop it from non-pro cameras. Many other examples. Articulating LCD may not be a must yet, and may never become one, but I doubt any company can remove the whole LCD/flash from their sub $3000 cameras
08-26-2010, 12:45 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
The K1000 idea is interesting. Good primer for basic photographic principles - just like the first one. And fashionably retro.

But, in fact, manufacturers succumb to what will keep them financially healthy, meaning reasonably profitable. Not much point in keeping the doors open otherwise. And your lenders won't let you.

The LAST thing I want from Pentax is a line of truly useful cameras at great prices - a line that would cause the Pentax operation to fail financially and leave us all stranded. Of course someone would buy the name - and we'd end up being part of the Vivitar hegemony.

If Pentax will have a healthy support and R&D budget, I really don't care that some models have characteristics that cause some here to turn up their noses.

Anyway, I have a goofy-colored K-X and refuse to apologize for it!
I think we're essentially saying the same thing. I like simple, stripped down cameras personally, but I know that is not a marketable/profitable product. If Pentax made their products to address just my preference, they'd be out of business!
08-26-2010, 01:04 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by farhagh Quote
Everybody is free to dream for whatever they like, but seriously, how many of such a camera you believe Pentax will sell? I, like many others, do not need the video but we all know none of the players can drop it from non-pro cameras. Many other examples. Articulating LCD may not be a must yet, and may never become one, but I doubt any company can remove the whole LCD/flash from their sub $3000 cameras
QuoteOriginally posted by emergo Quote
I think we're essentially saying the same thing. I like simple, stripped down cameras personally, but I know that is not a marketable/profitable product. If Pentax made their products to address just my preference, they'd be out of business!
Yes, I know, it's crazy talk, these simple, rugged, reliable cameras. And yes, sadly, the market for this type of camera may be small, but obviously there are a few of us as can be seen in this thread. Anyways, I still do like to dream.

I'm still curious what Pentax has in store for us at Photokina. It's getting closer!
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