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09-07-2010, 11:03 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by cameraboy Quote
HI folks just back from Singapore where I purchased 3 more PENTAX lenses I personally think I am more into photography than a lot of forum readers as I go out and shoot all and only Pentax more than just talk IF YOURE GONNA SHOOT SHOOT DONT TALK.It seems appropiate. IAN
Take a moment to get of your high horse, and when you do, realise that you are posting in a thread that is ALL ABOUT TALKING ABOUT NEW AND UPCOMING GEAR.

This thread has nothing to do with photography, it is about gear.

If that bothers you, then, maybe spend your time here:

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09-07-2010, 12:06 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
When Adam says something like:

...snip (true)

The second indicator this is an official sort of leak is the trite nature of it, although i do like the flexibility of being able to use different batteries.

2 features i care more about is a plug-in for a shutter cable and adjustable focus for up to 10 AF lenses. The latter seems like a zero cost addition since Pentax has had the programming since K20, so why not make our cameras easier to use and easier to keep out of the repair shop. I would think that kind of feature would score points with reviewers.

With my Canon PS, it irritated me to realize that the mfr needlessly crippled some features to encourage folks to upgrade. Pentax on the other hand, has had a reputation of value for the money, and pointless crippling of features is something they would be better off avoiding, IMO.
Agreed. Astrophotography folks could use the K-X, recognised as class leading for the lack of noise. Except they couldn't with a conventional remote control. Nor could they tether it with a computer.
And in terms of focus corrections, I completely agree.

Personally, I still agree that a pentaxprism would be nice (although it does seem unlikely) at this level.

What I would like to see is the nice quiet shutter from the K-7 on each subsequent body. Again, zero cost since it has already been designed.

In terms of the pricing, I think a lot of it now is perceived value for this level of camera, given that the $875 seems to be a similar price to the 4/3 bodies (E-pl1 excepted) for the feature set. However, I suspect the "50% less in 9 months" rule will apply. It had better, since the new sony and the D3100 look like fantastic bodies, and will spark interest.
09-07-2010, 01:41 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Keep in mind that there's more to a sensor than its resolution. If the K-r's sensor will have improved FPS and noise control over its predecessor, then it would be a much bigger step up than, say, just a 15-megapixel sensor with worse noise control as a side-effect.
Well, IMO it depends on each ones priorities. Personally I agree, but people who needs resolution might disagree.
09-07-2010, 05:52 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
What I would like to see is the nice quiet shutter from the K-7 on each subsequent body. Again, zero cost since it has already been designed.

With software, development is most of the cost. Hardware, like shutters, cost money to manufacture. The K-7 shutter may cost significantly more than the K-x shutter.

09-07-2010, 06:09 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Keep in mind that there's more to a sensor than its resolution. If the K-r's sensor will have improved FPS and noise control over its predecessor, then it would be a much bigger step up than, say, just a 15-megapixel sensor with worse noise control as a side-effect.
This is what i hope for. I've fine with the 12 megapixel if i get real high ISO performance without a lot of smearing. I checked into the Canon 7D at one point, and there was some real push back messages on the part of some enthusiasts indicating that Canon had gone too far with 18 megpixels on a APS sensor. Also, i believe the Canon G10 had 12 megpixels on its PS sensor, while the next model, G11 had gone back to 10 megapixels. I will end up wtih a higher ISO camera this time around, and i hope it will be the Kr with its smaller form factor (and cheaper price). It all depends on what features they put into it. If i have to go with the K5, i'll be waiting for awhile till the price drops.
09-07-2010, 06:24 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by cameraboy Quote
HI folks just back from Singapore where I purchased 3 more PENTAX lenses I personally think I am more into photography than a lot of forum readers as I go out and shoot all and only Pentax more than just talk IF YOURE GONNA SHOOT SHOOT DONT TALK.It seems appropiate. IAN
HI folks just back from the other side of town where I purchased 3 pints of porter I personally think I am more into run-on sentences than a lot of forum readers as I go out and shoot my mouth off more than just talk it's drivel really IF YOURE GONNA TALK ABOUT NOT TALKING BUT SHOOTING it seems totally inappropriate TO NOT BE SHOOTING BUT TALKING but actually this is writing. NOT IAN
09-07-2010, 06:29 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
I have basic understanding and use center focus quite well when I have but one subject and it's kind enough to stay in one place. Landscapes are particularly good at staying in one place. Buildings, too, but over a shorter time. Gotta keep an eye on them.
+1

Some people seem to ignore one simple fact: their camera requirements are not everybody's camera requirements. A camera manufacturer needs to cater to more than their limited needs to survive.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
2 features i care more about is a plug-in for a shutter cable and adjustable focus for up to 10 AF lenses. The latter seems like a zero cost addition since Pentax has had the programming since K20, so why not make our cameras easier to use and easier to keep out of the repair shop.
I agree. But some distinguishing features need to be retained to have different models, even if some are (inevitably) artificial. I think the adjustable focus will be one of these.


QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
I don't like the battery / AA inserts at all. It's one more thing to be dependent on.
The same thing has been said about every single new invention or advancement. For example, I have seen it mentioned many times that in-body SR is bad since if it breaks all your lenses lose SR. Of course the fact that that never happens is conveniently ignored for the sake of a hypothetical.

If the insert fits in the compartment you are no more likely to lose it that any other part of the camera. If it is cheap enough to replace it will be no more annoying in the unlikely case you do lose it.

(Maybe I am odd but in three years I have lost no body cap, lens cap, hot shoe cover, etc. But I still prefer designs that allow for no removable part that can potentially be lost.)
09-07-2010, 06:59 PM   #68
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Good points Clarkey (m)

QuoteOriginally posted by Clarkey Quote
Agreed. Astrophotography folks could use the K-X, recognised as class leading for the lack of noise. Except they couldn't with a conventional remote control. Nor could they tether it with a computer.
And in terms of focus corrections, I completely agree.
Personally, I still agree that a pentaxprism would be nice (although it does seem unlikely) at this level.


What I would like to see is the nice quiet shutter from the K-7 on each subsequent body. Again, zero cost since it has already been designed.

In terms of the pricing, I think a lot of it now is perceived value for this level of camera, given that the $875 seems to be a similar price to the 4/3 bodies (E-pl1 excepted) for the feature set. However, I suspect the "50% less in 9 months" rule will apply. It had better, since the new sony and the D3100 look like fantastic bodies, and will spark interest.
As fantastic as the k-x handles high iso noise, I agree there are features that are missing to take ultimate advantage of the fact. I don't think anyone would disagree that a pentaprism would be nice. Oh my! I actually forgot about how loud the k-x is and how quiet the k-7 is! Folks I spoke to about it seemed to think it was because of the weather sealing that the k-7 is quiet. The difference is stark though, no doubt about that!
I've been eye balling the 4/3'd cameras with interest. I was really hoping Pentax would wow me with an amazing new release. I'm still holding on to hope. We'll see.

09-07-2010, 07:29 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
HI folks just back from the other side of town where I purchased 3 pints of porter I personally think I am more into run-on sentences than a lot of forum readers as I go out and shoot my mouth off more than just talk it's drivel really IF YOURE GONNA TALK ABOUT NOT TALKING BUT SHOOTING it seems totally inappropriate TO NOT BE SHOOTING BUT TALKING but actually this is writing. NOT IAN
Finally. A post with a core of good sense.

Tom Lehrer once spoke (in a not entirely approving manner) of the growing body of angst-ridden modern literary works, particularly plays and books in the first person, bemoaning men's inability to communicate with their fellow man.

Lehrer felt that if a person could not communicate with his fellow man, the least he could do is shut up about it.

On another topic, I see writing in caps (e.g., Ian) as evidence of a morbid determination to bore at least some users of the Internet into a sort of voluntary literary celibacy - a sort of aliteracy rather than illiteracy. It's from a hope that the stentorian voice of the village idiot will drive out the measured words of the reasonable - bad words will drive out the good words. Like money. But I'll defer to Aristophenes on that subject.

When I set out to bore, I just add syllables. No need to shout.

Anyway, I've a few Fuller's porter in the fridge and intend to open one directly I log off. Should follow the IPA nicely with pudding. Which brewer was lucky enough to receive your custom, notIan?

Last edited by glanglois; 09-07-2010 at 08:02 PM.
09-07-2010, 07:46 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
+1
The same thing has been said about every single new invention or advancement. For example, I have seen it mentioned many times that in-body SR is bad since if it breaks all your lenses lose SR. Of course the fact that that never happens is conveniently ignored for the sake of a hypothetical.

If the insert fits in the compartment you are no more likely to lose it that any other part of the camera. If it is cheap enough to replace it will be no more annoying in the unlikely case you do lose it.

(Maybe I am odd but in three years I have lost no body cap, lens cap, hot shoe cover, etc. But I still prefer designs that allow for no removable part that can potentially be lost.)
Yes, but SR is quite like breaking the sensor, or shutter. It's an essential part of the camera to work properly.

Now imagine not being able to use a K-r 5-10 years in advance because you can't find in the market a damn piece of cheap plastic to fit AA cells into? Pointless.

Also, consider that a DSLR market is worldwide, and cameras are meant to last. There are professionals and pro-amateurs everywhere. Finding spare parts might be easy if you live in US/EU, or in a 5 year window. It sucks if you live (or are working) outside those places, or trying to use a camera that is more than 5 years old.

At least personally, my reason to get a Pentax was being able to use their legacy gear. How good is being able to use 20 year old glasses if you can't shoot your camera because you lost/broke a piece of plastic?

I'm afraid because I know replacing those small parts (li-ion batteries, battery inserts, viewfinders, protectors, grips, etc.) is a damn headache when you need too, which is usually when your gear is some years old, or when you are deployed in the middle of the Amazon Rainforest and actually need it the most.
09-07-2010, 08:18 PM   #71
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Engineering for value takes long-term system availability into account. That equates to lower ownership cost and more photos taken over that long term.

Cheap engineering emphasizes immediate cost of production. Bits and bobs and plastic extrusions at three for a penny. Dump 'em into a little plastic bag and dump the bag into the box.

I admire that elegant, long-term approach - one I still associate with German engineering and/or mil spec high availability. But before anyone gets upset, that's simply a personal impression based on no formal analysis. Please feel free to tell me that there are examples in Japan, Thailand, Zambia, and America. I will not debate the issue.

I will simply admire a system with few parts that go together (only one way at that) - and stay there. That usually tells me something about the engineering of the rest of the system.

It tells me that someone cares about what happens when, five years from now, I bring the camera up to my eye to get the shot that will outlive me.
09-07-2010, 10:27 PM   #72
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Anyway, losing the AA insert takes you back to the K-7/K20/K10 situation: use the battery.
It would be a pity, but is it THAT big of a problem?

If you really think you might lose an insert, buy a couple spare ones.
09-08-2010, 04:14 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Now imagine not being able to use a K-r 5-10 years in advance because you can't find in the market a damn piece of cheap plastic to fit AA cells into? Pointless.
Now imagine not being able to use your K10/K20/K7/K5/etc 5-10 years in advance because you can't find in the marker a damn piece of cheap proprietary battery?
Pointless. I mean posting such nonsense and worrying over nothing is really pointless.
09-08-2010, 04:17 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Keep in mind that there's more to a sensor than its resolution. If the K-r's sensor will have improved FPS and noise control over its predecessor, then it would be a much bigger step up than, say, just a 15-megapixel sensor with worse noise control as a side-effect.
only
09-08-2010, 04:25 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
Now imagine not being able to use your K10/K20/K7/K5/etc 5-10 years in advance because you can't find in the marker a damn piece of cheap proprietary battery?
Pointless. I mean posting such nonsense and worrying over nothing is really pointless.
That's why God created eBay and Chinese knock-off markets
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