K-5, K-r (Sony) Sensors Compared by DPReview (RAW)

illdefined · 09-07-2010, 09:32 AM

DPReview updated their Sony SLT-A55 review today with RAW data. If this is indeed the same 16.2MP sensor that will go into the upcoming K-5, it looks like it may be another case of a lower model (K-r) having better ISO than its more expensive, higher-resolution sister model (but much slighter this time).

It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r. Even more annoying is that they both seem to have worse RAW noise than the even higher-resolution 18MP Canon sensor (with a slightly smaller sensor dimension no less)

On the positive side, it looks like both Sony sensors have good dynamic range (9 stops), slightly bettering the Canon.

High ISO: Sony SLT-A55 Review: 9. Noise and Noise Reduction: Digital Photography Review

Dynamic Range: Sony SLT-A55 Review: 11. Dynamic Range: Digital Photography Review

RAW: Sony SLT-A55 Review: 17. Compared to (RAW): Digital Photography Review

Urkeldaedalus · 09-07-2010, 09:49 AM

Note: The A55's noise performance may be affected by the use of the translucent mirror, which diverts part of the light gathered to the autofocus system. So the K-5's noise performance should be better than shown here.

Adam · 09-07-2010, 10:06 AM

That noise control looks quite impressive as it is, but I'm a bit concerned that the auto NR will significantly reduce the overall sharpness of the photos.

illdefined · 09-07-2010, 10:07 AM

Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus

Note: The A55's noise performance may be affected by the use of the translucent mirror, which diverts part of the light gathered to the autofocus system. So the K-5's noise performance should be better than shown here.

that's a great point, certainly hope its true, but I imagine Sony increases the exposure accordingly somehow (and DPReviews tests 'brightness match" +- 6 E/V, they're testing ISO afterall, not exposures), most likely the shutter speed with ISO being the baseline.

solar1 · 09-07-2010, 10:09 AM

"It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r."

Hasn't Adam been pretty clear? The K-r is slated to have a 12 MP sensor - instead of 14MP. We'll know for sure though by Sept 9.

If that's the case, it looks like there won't be a 14 MP possibility until the next iteration? I guess Hoya is saving a few $ on using a prior sensor.

illdefined · 09-07-2010, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by solar1

"It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r."

Hasn't Adam has been pretty clear? The K-r is slated to have a 12 MP sensor - instead of 14MP. We'll know for sure though by Sept 9.

If that's the case, it looks like there won't be a 14 MP possibility until the next iteration? I guess Hoya is saving a few $ on using a prior sensor.

Has that been confirmed? It's also been rumored that the K-r would have Sony's current 14MP sensor.

I suppose just adding Li-On capability and VF points could justify a whole new letter upgrade from the K-x, but with Canon's entry level being 18mp and even Nikon moving on from 12mp after so long, I fear Pentax could be seen as staying in place.

Reportage · 09-07-2010, 10:19 AM

well, since Pentax listens to its users..i have no doubt the upcoming model will have the option of disabling NR entirely.

Vaikis_ · 09-07-2010, 10:20 AM

no point to make any analyzes, K-5 would have a different revision sensor then Sony A55 !!! Pentax K-x sensor is also different revision then these which Sony uses.

illdefined · 09-07-2010, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Reportage

well, since Pentax listens to its users..i have no doubt the upcoming model will have the option of disabling NR entirely.

The Auto NR only applies to JPEGs if i'm not mistaken. We were looking at the newly updated RAW data with Adobe's NR turned 'off' across all brands.

Kunzite · 09-07-2010, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by illdefined

that's a great point, certainly hope its true, but I imagine Sony increases the exposure accordingly somehow (and DPReviews tests 'brightness match" +- 6 E/V, they're testing ISO afterall, not exposures), most likely the shutter speed with ISO being the baseline.

From what I understand, this isn't the case. The Sony "SLT" cameras would additionally amplify the sensor's signal, in order to compensate for the lost light.
The same ISO would get the same exposure (everything else being equal) - but with more noise.

**jon.partsch** · 09-07-2010, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by illdefined

DPReview updated their Sony SLT-A55 review today with RAW data. If this is indeed the same 16.2MP sensor that will go into the upcoming K-5, it looks like it may be another case of a lower model (K-r) having better ISO than its more expensive, higher-resolution sister model (but much slighter this time).

It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r. Even more annoying is that they both seem to have worse RAW noise than the even higher-resolution 18MP Canon sensor (with a slightly smaller sensor dimension no less)

On the positive side, it looks like both Sony sensors have good dynamic range (9 stops), slightly bettering the Canon.

Um, where's the analysis of RAW headroom? Where is the comparison of high ISO RAW noise (the last link only provides JPEGs for comparison)? The verdict on this sensor is STILL not in!

illdefined · 09-07-2010, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

From what I understand, this isn't the case. The Sony "SLT" cameras would additionally amplify the sensor's signal, in order to compensate for the lost light.
The same ISO would get the same exposure (everything else being equal) - but with more noise.

Really? is that stated somewhere? That could explain the noise difference between the mirrorless NEX-5 and the A55, but its so slight I figured it was just the difference in photocell size from the extra 2mp.

I'd imagine just amping up a sensor's signal (the definition of digital ISO?) 30% or whatever is lost by the pellicle mirror would cause noticeably more noise than that

**jon.partsch** · 09-07-2010, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by illdefined

I suppose just adding Li-On capability and VF points could justify a whole new letter upgrade from the K-x, but with Canon's entry level being 18mp and even Nikon moving on from 12mp after so long, I fear Pentax could be seen as staying in place.

Not so fast - don't forget that we may have such goodies as second dial, top LCD, and faster FPS rate, better AF, etc. to look forward to from this camera, and those would be major improvements too.

Big G · 09-07-2010, 10:35 AM

As I said on another thread, they really praised the sensor and it looks very impressive to me; certainly up there with the best / latest APS-C cameras out there. RAW noise is only a touch worse than the 550D (Canon's flagship APS-C sensor) but still very well controlled up to ISO 3200, but the A55 has slightly better dynamic range - probably the best dynamic range out of any APS-C DSLR.

Aren't you guys happy / excited that Pentax's latest will have this stonkingly good sensor?

magkelly · 09-07-2010, 10:36 AM

Admittedly I don't know too much about the various censors but If I am reading these posts the lower sensor is better, less noisy? Isn't it smarter then to stay with that for now if the other sensor has more noise in RAW? Who cares about changing if what is new isn't maybe the best option? I'd much rather see Pentax stay with something that works better but that is older than see them use something that might be less optimal, wouldn't you? It doesn't really make sense to me to push for something just because it's "new" if indeed it's not the best choice.

Newer isn't always better. If it was so many PC people wouldn't still have XP on their machines versus Vista/Windows 7. Actually that's a pretty good example. Both OS's have been highly hyped and early adoption has been urged but you know I've tried them both out, fairly, and honestly for all it's security flaws XP is still the better OS if you ask me. The Vista, the Win 7 they just tend to restrict my choices and get in my way. I can protect my machine in other ways. I'm a power user. I don't need my hand held but Vista/Win 7, they pretty much insist upon it no matter how much you try to work around it no matter which flavor you try. I tend to find that completely annoying in the long run even if it is a bit more secure. To me the trade off just isn't worth it, hence both of my machines run updated XP with security software and such.

If it's not broken don't fix it....

More MP's and shiny new sensors those are great things if it all works well. But rushing to add things that might or not be best just because you can? That's not always such a bright idea. Me. I want a steady performing camera far more than I want more flash and dash. Don't get me wrong, I'm amused by all the colors and so forth, and of course I want to be able to do more than I can with a 6MP upscale point and shoot (My Fuji...) but I'm not really too sure I need that many MP anyhow, or video etc.

It's a camera. Picture quality that's got to be the bottom line and if the older sensor still works better than why not keep it till we have something that can actually surpass it? I wouldn't fault Pentax for that. I don't think I'd want "new" actually if in the long run the "new" camera isn't actually the better camera.

09-07-2010, 09:32 AM	#1
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	K-5, K-r (Sony) Sensors Compared by DPReview (RAW) DPReview updated their Sony SLT-A55 review today with RAW data. If this is indeed the same 16.2MP sensor that will go into the upcoming K-5, it looks like it may be another case of a lower model (K-r) having better ISO than its more expensive, higher-resolution sister model (but much slighter this time). It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r. Even more annoying is that they both seem to have worse RAW noise than the even higher-resolution 18MP Canon sensor (with a slightly smaller sensor dimension no less) On the positive side, it looks like both Sony sensors have good dynamic range (9 stops), slightly bettering the Canon. High ISO: Sony SLT-A55 Review: 9. Noise and Noise Reduction: Digital Photography Review Dynamic Range: Sony SLT-A55 Review: 11. Dynamic Range: Digital Photography Review RAW: Sony SLT-A55 Review: 17. Compared to (RAW): Digital Photography Review

09-07-2010, 10:06 AM	#3
Adam Administrator Site Webmaster Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Arizona Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 51,597	That noise control looks quite impressive as it is, but I'm a bit concerned that the auto NR will significantly reduce the overall sharpness of the photos. Adam PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide \| Site Help \| My Photography) PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

09-07-2010, 10:09 AM	#5
solar1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Southern Calif Posts: 565	"It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r." Hasn't Adam been pretty clear? The K-r is slated to have a 12 MP sensor - instead of 14MP. We'll know for sure though by Sept 9. If that's the case, it looks like there won't be a 14 MP possibility until the next iteration? I guess Hoya is saving a few $ on using a prior sensor. Last edited by solar1; 09-07-2010 at 10:39 AM.

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09-07-2010, 09:49 AM	#2
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	Note: The A55's noise performance may be affected by the use of the translucent mirror, which diverts part of the light gathered to the autofocus system. So the K-5's noise performance should be better than shown here.

09-07-2010, 10:07 AM	#4
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929 Original Poster	Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus Note: The A55's noise performance may be affected by the use of the translucent mirror, which diverts part of the light gathered to the autofocus system. So the K-5's noise performance should be better than shown here. that's a great point, certainly hope its true, but I imagine Sony increases the exposure accordingly somehow (and DPReviews tests 'brightness match" +- 6 E/V, they're testing ISO afterall, not exposures), most likely the shutter speed with ISO being the baseline.

09-07-2010, 10:19 AM	#6
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929 Original Poster	Originally posted by solar1 "It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r." Hasn't Adam has been pretty clear? The K-r is slated to have a 12 MP sensor - instead of 14MP. We'll know for sure though by Sept 9. If that's the case, it looks like there won't be a 14 MP possibility until the next iteration? I guess Hoya is saving a few $ on using a prior sensor. Has that been confirmed? It's also been rumored that the K-r would have Sony's current 14MP sensor. I suppose just adding Li-On capability and VF points could justify a whole new letter upgrade from the K-x, but with Canon's entry level being 18mp and even Nikon moving on from 12mp after so long, I fear Pentax could be seen as staying in place.

09-07-2010, 10:19 AM	#7
Reportage Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 739	well, since Pentax listens to its users..i have no doubt the upcoming model will have the option of disabling NR entirely.

09-07-2010, 10:20 AM	#8
Vaikis_ Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 213	no point to make any analyzes, K-5 would have a different revision sensor then Sony A55 !!! Pentax K-x sensor is also different revision then these which Sony uses.

09-07-2010, 10:24 AM	#9
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929 Original Poster	Originally posted by Reportage well, since Pentax listens to its users..i have no doubt the upcoming model will have the option of disabling NR entirely. The Auto NR only applies to JPEGs if i'm not mistaken. We were looking at the newly updated RAW data with Adobe's NR turned 'off' across all brands.

09-07-2010, 10:25 AM	#10
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by illdefined that's a great point, certainly hope its true, but I imagine Sony increases the exposure accordingly somehow (and DPReviews tests 'brightness match" +- 6 E/V, they're testing ISO afterall, not exposures), most likely the shutter speed with ISO being the baseline. From what I understand, this isn't the case. The Sony "SLT" cameras would additionally amplify the sensor's signal, in order to compensate for the lost light. The same ISO would get the same exposure (everything else being equal) - but with more noise.

09-07-2010, 10:31 AM	#11
jon.partsch Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 442	Originally posted by illdefined DPReview updated their Sony SLT-A55 review today with RAW data. If this is indeed the same 16.2MP sensor that will go into the upcoming K-5, it looks like it may be another case of a lower model (K-r) having better ISO than its more expensive, higher-resolution sister model (but much slighter this time). It seems the 16.2MP Sony sensor has slightly more RAW noise than its sister 14MP sensor rumored to be in the K-r. Even more annoying is that they both seem to have worse RAW noise than the even higher-resolution 18MP Canon sensor (with a slightly smaller sensor dimension no less) On the positive side, it looks like both Sony sensors have good dynamic range (9 stops), slightly bettering the Canon. Um, where's the analysis of RAW headroom? Where is the comparison of high ISO RAW noise (the last link only provides JPEGs for comparison)? The verdict on this sensor is STILL not in!

09-07-2010, 10:34 AM	#12
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kunzite From what I understand, this isn't the case. The Sony "SLT" cameras would additionally amplify the sensor's signal, in order to compensate for the lost light. The same ISO would get the same exposure (everything else being equal) - but with more noise. Really? is that stated somewhere? That could explain the noise difference between the mirrorless NEX-5 and the A55, but its so slight I figured it was just the difference in photocell size from the extra 2mp. I'd imagine just amping up a sensor's signal (the definition of digital ISO?) 30% or whatever is lost by the pellicle mirror would cause noticeably more noise than that

09-07-2010, 10:35 AM	#13
jon.partsch Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 442	Originally posted by illdefined I suppose just adding Li-On capability and VF points could justify a whole new letter upgrade from the K-x, but with Canon's entry level being 18mp and even Nikon moving on from 12mp after so long, I fear Pentax could be seen as staying in place. Not so fast - don't forget that we may have such goodies as second dial, top LCD, and faster FPS rate, better AF, etc. to look forward to from this camera, and those would be major improvements too.

09-07-2010, 10:35 AM	#14
Big G Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 581	As I said on another thread, they really praised the sensor and it looks very impressive to me; certainly up there with the best / latest APS-C cameras out there. RAW noise is only a touch worse than the 550D (Canon's flagship APS-C sensor) but still very well controlled up to ISO 3200, but the A55 has slightly better dynamic range - probably the best dynamic range out of any APS-C DSLR. Aren't you guys happy / excited that Pentax's latest will have this stonkingly good sensor?

09-07-2010, 10:36 AM	#15
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Admittedly I don't know too much about the various censors but If I am reading these posts the lower sensor is better, less noisy? Isn't it smarter then to stay with that for now if the other sensor has more noise in RAW? Who cares about changing if what is new isn't maybe the best option? I'd much rather see Pentax stay with something that works better but that is older than see them use something that might be less optimal, wouldn't you? It doesn't really make sense to me to push for something just because it's "new" if indeed it's not the best choice. Newer isn't always better. If it was so many PC people wouldn't still have XP on their machines versus Vista/Windows 7. Actually that's a pretty good example. Both OS's have been highly hyped and early adoption has been urged but you know I've tried them both out, fairly, and honestly for all it's security flaws XP is still the better OS if you ask me. The Vista, the Win 7 they just tend to restrict my choices and get in my way. I can protect my machine in other ways. I'm a power user. I don't need my hand held but Vista/Win 7, they pretty much insist upon it no matter how much you try to work around it no matter which flavor you try. I tend to find that completely annoying in the long run even if it is a bit more secure. To me the trade off just isn't worth it, hence both of my machines run updated XP with security software and such. If it's not broken don't fix it.... More MP's and shiny new sensors those are great things if it all works well. But rushing to add things that might or not be best just because you can? That's not always such a bright idea. Me. I want a steady performing camera far more than I want more flash and dash. Don't get me wrong, I'm amused by all the colors and so forth, and of course I want to be able to do more than I can with a 6MP upscale point and shoot (My Fuji...) but I'm not really too sure I need that many MP anyhow, or video etc. It's a camera. Picture quality that's got to be the bottom line and if the older sensor still works better than why not keep it till we have something that can actually surpass it? I wouldn't fault Pentax for that. I don't think I'd want "new" actually if in the long run the "new" camera isn't actually the better camera.