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09-09-2010, 03:01 AM   #136
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Why so negative? So it doesn't meet your personal requirements - look for a camera that does. Entry-level means just that - 11 AF points is more than enough. WR is to me not a primary selling point for an *entry-level* camera - the K-r is priced as such in line with competitor entry-level models. It's not a buddy to the K-7 - why the need for the same battery? How much bigger is the K-r really? Again, the DA 35 aims at the low-end consumer looking to experiment with a prime for the first time in their lives...

I believe the K-r will be just as successful as the K-x, if not moreso...
I can see the logic, giving the market a taste for cheap primes could potentially stir interest in those who wish to "upgrade" to better primes.

Given Pentax's past primes I do believe that regardless of it's plastic construction it will be an excellent quality lens optically.

09-09-2010, 03:07 AM   #137
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SOLD!!!!
The perfect backup wedding camera.
It has a F50 1.7 with its name on it.

Plus, people think the white one at a wedding is cool.
09-09-2010, 03:17 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Why so negative? So it doesn't meet your personal requirements - look for a camera that does. Entry-level means just that - 11 AF points is more than enough. WR is to me not a primary selling point for an *entry-level* camera - the K-r is priced as such in line with competitor entry-level models. It's not a buddy to the K-7 - why the need for the same battery? How much bigger is the K-r really? Again, the DA 35 aims at the low-end consumer looking to experiment with a prime for the first time in their lives...

I believe the K-r will be just as successful as the K-x, if not moreso...
I'm not negative because it doesn't meet my requirements. For myself I'm waiting for the K-5 anyway. I'm looking at it from a marketing point of view. Only 12MP, no 1080p video. No really distinctive feature (WR would have been so nice...). Even the smallness is not there anymore (but it maybe due to the mirrorless cameras that are much better in that department anyway).

11 AF points maybe more than enough but I was hoping something new from the SAFOX IX, maybe in the K-5 (don't tell me it will still be 11 points when everybody have moved beyond in this price class).

Why the need for the same battery as K-7? No need for 2 chargers and 2 different set when using the K-r as a backup.

DA 35mm f/2.4 would be OK if the competition was not at f/1.8.
09-09-2010, 03:21 AM - 1 Like   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
For once I agree with ogl: boring. An entry-level no-bells-and-whistles DA L lens and a camera body without WR. Well, I wasn't expecting so much from the K-r, but certainly hope K-5 will be a bit more interesting.
WR is for higher-end cameras as an upselling feature. That's the future. Get used to it.

The K-r is a K-x with some sensor/software tweaks, an AF assist lamp, and AF focus point illuminators, plus some modest software/firmware upgrades.

It looks like a very good improvement by changing the failings of the K-x (a least until falconeye does his shutter test on it). This is solid product improvement.

09-09-2010, 03:22 AM   #140
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2 fps@ 36 RAW was my dream 2 year ago...
09-09-2010, 03:31 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I'm not negative because it doesn't meet my requirements. For myself I'm waiting for the K-5 anyway. I'm looking at it from a marketing point of view. Only 12MP, no 1080p video. No really distinctive feature (WR would have been so nice...). Even the smallness is not there anymore (but it maybe due to the mirrorless cameras that are much better in that department anyway).

11 AF points maybe more than enough but I was hoping something new from the SAFOX IX, maybe in the K-5 (don't tell me it will still be 11 points when everybody have moved beyond in this price class).

Why the need for the same battery as K-7? No need for 2 chargers and 2 different set when using the K-r as a backup.

DA 35mm f/2.4 would be OK if the competition was not at f/1.8.
K-5 will have SafoxIX+ Which will have the widget from the K645D.

What we do know is that they claim it as being faster. The guy that was doing the interview with the 645D deliberatley stated that he was looking for low contrast difficult subjects to test the system. In the new promo video they state that they are now bigger and faster than the old system. We can all speculate about the difference in system accuracy/speed. or we can wait for some customer reviews comparing the two systems in low light.
I can tell you, I really had a blast shooting my last wedding with my F 50mm f1.7 because the video guy added some lighting, I got virtually no focus error at EV6 with great speed. with my aging K20D. The K10D was still a joke with anything other than the 12-24mm.
My expectations are that the K-r is High ISO machine above the K-x, having a AF system to match. The K-5 will be even above this from what I managed to put together from A55 samples and common sense.


And for all those waiting for the K200 replacement......... I was waiting for it in this camera, but it seems the K-7 will be as close as you get. The K-7 MKII will probably retain a lot of what the K-7 was, and be marketable at a lower price. Also the K-7 is within reach at its new lower price point. Wait for next year for its replacement with a new sensor, WR mag alloy body, Pentaprism, better AF and new widgets.
09-09-2010, 03:33 AM   #142
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
WR is for higher-end cameras as an upselling feature. That's the future. Get used to it.
Then Pentax should do a WR version of the K-r. That would be a nice experiment to see if people are interested in paying slightly more for a WR version.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The K-r is a K-x with some sensor/software tweaks, an AF assist lamp, and AF focus point illuminators, plus some modest software/firmware upgrades.
Too little too late. I hate to see that as the motto for most Pentax releases. I had hoped they would at least use the new Sony 14MP sensor (not just 2MP more, but 1080p).
09-09-2010, 03:44 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I'm not negative because it doesn't meet my requirements. For myself I'm waiting for the K-5 anyway. I'm looking at it from a marketing point of view. Only 12MP, no 1080p video. No really distinctive feature (WR would have been so nice...). Even the smallness is not there anymore (but it maybe due to the mirrorless cameras that are much better in that department anyway).

11 AF points maybe more than enough but I was hoping something new from the SAFOX IX, maybe in the K-5 (don't tell me it will still be 11 points when everybody have moved beyond in this price class).

Why the need for the same battery as K-7? No need for 2 chargers and 2 different set when using the K-r as a backup.

DA 35mm f/2.4 would be OK if the competition was not at f/1.8.
Your points are taken, and respectfully disagreed upon.
And I say this as an enthusiast who does not want an entry-level camera at all anymore. 'Only' 12Mp happens to be more than enough for 8"x11" prints, perhaps even 11"x14" - and tell me how many entry-level users require this? A quickly filled hard-drive/DVD-ROM library will be the end result, without much need for the added resolution. Nevertheless, we can differ on this point.

How many AF points is enough? What shots do you miss by not having an extra 50 AF points? How many AF points do you use? It may be useful to have a few more for those fast-moving action shots - then again, perhaps a sharpened panning technique will prove more valuable than 70 AF points...

I have no argument on the battery incompatibility - I see no significant disadvantage having two different charging and battery systems. It's no different to me than having 2 of the same charger and 4 of the same battery for the K10D and K20D.

We'll just see how the DA 35 fares in sale numbers, shall we?

09-09-2010, 03:45 AM - 1 Like   #144
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K-r release, my first impressions

Now that the K-r specs are releases, these are my first impressions. I don't know where to put them in this overflow of posts and threads but maybe, we simply stick with the first thread opened after the release...

So, here we go (I only comment on the K-r body):

The K-r is a K-x with the following changes:

Hardware changes:
  • Seemingly another sensor with faster read-out but same pixel pitch.
    It remains to be seen if it has the same excellent noise / DR characteristics. Still a Sony Exmor I guess.
  • SAFOX IX with same AF point layout and focus assist lamp.
    Spec says EV-1 to 18 which is a first to be specified and a great spec!
    SAFOX IX has the same name as the 645D AF module.
    Testing it may be interesting indeed
  • Illuminated AF points.
  • 921k dot rear screen.
  • 6fps.
  • Combined LiOn / NiMH battery compartment.
  • Capable of sending images via infrared beam.
  • 5mm higher, 2mm wider, 26g heavier.
Firmware changes:
  • Faster contrast AF algorithm ("drastic upgrading of algorithms")
  • HDR mode now with in-camera alignment.
    I wrote in my blog why there is no excuse for Pentax not to offer that and now I am proven correct. I can only hope though that K-7 receives that as an upgrade too.
  • Night mode which I assume is image stacking with auto align.
    Would be a great feature indeed!
  • Focus priority or shutter priority mode for AF.S
  • Focus priority or FPS priority mode for AF.C
IMHO, that is a decent replacement camera for the K-x if the revised sensor doesn't loose on its core strength: dynamic range.

Many may be disappointed that it's not a new camera (no HDMI or ext. mic port, no tilt-swivel monitor, no weather-resistant body). But it is a good revision of a camera which was one of the best selling for Pentax ever. Never change a winning strategy And it did fix the major complain: illuminated AF points.

The improvements in the firmware are all great and I can only hope Pentax upgrades cameras in the field too. Say, after the Xmas season
09-09-2010, 03:50 AM   #145
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A great down-to-earth summary, Falk.
Thanks for sharing this.
Look forward to your first impressions of the K-5.
09-09-2010, 03:58 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Then Pentax should do a WR version of the K-r. That would be a nice experiment to see if people are interested in paying slightly more for a WR version.



Too little too late. I hate to see that as the motto for most Pentax releases. I had hoped they would at least use the new Sony 14MP sensor (not just 2MP more, but 1080p).
Add $300 for WR. Is that worth it to you? Value? If they don't charge somewhere near that, then they cannibalize sales of the K-7/5.

The K-x sensor (if this is what it is) is more than adequate in today's market. AF assist and enhanced AF with illuminators are really ideal and add considerable value.

1080p is over-rated and takes up more editing headroom. I do wish they'd gone to 30fps, as an option, however.
09-09-2010, 04:02 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But it is a good revision of a camera which was one of the best selling for Pentax ever. Never change a winning strategy And it did fix the major complain: illuminated AF points.
It's not exactly a revision or a replament. The K-x + 18-55 was 650$ at launch. The K-r is 850$. It may worth the 200$ more but the competition at this price is much more fierce.
09-09-2010, 04:05 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The K-x sensor (if this is what it is) is more than adequate in today's market. AF assist and enhanced AF with illuminators are really ideal and add considerable value.

1080p is over-rated and takes up more editing headroom. I do wish they'd gone to 30fps, as an option, however.
I know it's over-rated but a lot of people buy by spec list, especially newer user. Will they get a no-name 12MP/720p vs a Nikon 14MP/1080p? Not sure of that.
09-09-2010, 04:11 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I know it's over-rated but a lot of people buy by spec list, especially newer user. Will they get a no-name 12MP/720p vs a Nikon 14MP/1080p? Not sure of that.
The sad truth is that those people would not even consider Pentax anyway. So I'm glad that Pentax did not follow the megapixel war again. 12MP is MORE than enough for any amateur shooting, especially if the camera sports superb high ISO capabilities. I hope for an 1-stop improvement (ISO 12800 is standard in the K-r - it's 6400 in the K-x - with ISO 25600 being an option). If that is true then I bet that it is the ultimate low-light camera.
09-09-2010, 04:14 AM   #150
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
Will they get a no-name 12MP/720p vs a Nikon 14MP/1080p? Not sure of that.
Are you saying Pentax is a no name?
Additionally, once prices settle, what camera's will fit this one in terms of specs and performance?

I think it's quite obvious that the K-r won't suite everyone, however, I think its well poised to make an attractive camera for entry level and mid-range photographers alike. But more importantly... if will cater to existing entry level camera owners.

I know on our end of things, the K-r will make a welcome upgrade to our lowly K-x.
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