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09-10-2010, 01:41 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by AngryCorgi Quote
I'm not here to argue ticky-tack point, but your information is incorrect...60D max ISO = 12800. If you only post the ticky-tack K-5 advantages and neglect all the ticky-tack 60D advantages then, sure, you can make the the camera "appear" to have a clear advantage...but that would be flawed logic. At any rate, they ARE comparable cameras on most points. There is some small give-and-take here and there, but the most noticeable hurdle is the $600 variance in MSRP.
But you were arguing "ticky-tack point" when you say "very comparable". And as far as ISO is concerned I was comparing standard ISO to standard ISO. IE 6400 standard ISO on the Canon vs 12800 standard ISO on the Pentax. If you want to compare max ISO then you have to go to 25,600 for the Pentax. And I completely disagree that the two cameras are comparable. Yes the Canon has an articulated LCD. But it doesn't have WR, or a magnesium frame, or in-body SR. It has half the AF points. Continuous shooting is 5.3fps vs 8fps for the K-5. Basically I would put the Canon one level below the K-5 based on published specs. I'm sure most would agree with me. But if you want to say the two are comparable, go ahead. I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who prefers science fiction.

NaCl(facts on the other hand are facts)H2O

09-10-2010, 02:17 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
But you were arguing "ticky-tack point" when you say "very comparable". And as far as ISO is concerned I was comparing standard ISO to standard ISO. IE 6400 standard ISO on the Canon vs 12800 standard ISO on the Pentax. If you want to compare max ISO then you have to go to 25,600 for the Pentax. And I completely disagree that the two cameras are comparable. Yes the Canon has an articulated LCD. But it doesn't have WR, or a magnesium frame, or in-body SR. It has half the AF points. Continuous shooting is 5.3fps vs 8fps for the K-5. Basically I would put the Canon one level below the K-5 based on published specs. I'm sure most would agree with me. But if you want to say the two are comparable, go ahead. I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who prefers science fiction.

NaCl(facts on the other hand are facts)H2O
In-body VR is not necessary (especially VR that only offers ~2 stops at most) when you have 3-stop and 4-stop reduction in many of the lenses. I would agree its a nice feature for primes (my old E-P1 came in handy in that regard), but the physics of sensor-based VR shows clearly its growing ineffectiveness at longer FLs. Your ISO argument is interesting in that you've now redefined what "you meant", so that's a cute defense. At any rate, if the K-7 was any indication of how the K-5 will handle ISO6400 (or higher for that matter), then raising the sensitivity will only be good for posting stamp-sized web photos. The Canon 1D4 does ISO512000 and ISO1024000, but they are completely useless...so comparing #s alone really is pointless...but given your rude "science fiction" remark, I'd say pointless was the name of your game.
09-10-2010, 02:21 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by happygui Quote
The fact is Pentax bodys dont hold its value very well. how much was it when it just came out last year? Now, you probably can easily find a deal on a brand new one for less than 830.

The used market is even worse. (not bad for buyers) I guess the k5's price most likely will drop to under 1000 by the end of next year.
I'm not conversant with either Canon or Nikon gear, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that their bodies don't hold value very well either. I'm sure people will correct me if I'm wrong.
Pentax lenses on the other hand are a good value. I had to replace my beloved Pentax K 135 F2.5 that I bought back in 2005 (2006?) for $105 from KEH (E+ grade) my replacement cost considerably more, it works as as the original used to, but it's more like E- than E+.

NaCl( to quote Ben "bodies are bodies but good glass is forever" )H2O
09-10-2010, 02:44 PM   #184
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While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? My K20D has been a great and dependable camera, it has built my confidence in Pentax, and I am betting that the K5 will continue that trend. There are lots of cameras out there.....if I was not happy, I would just buy one of the others......no point in whining about a rock in your shoe, just stop and take it out, how hard is that?
Regards!

09-10-2010, 02:48 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
The flash thing is actually plausible.
After this you lost me.

Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed?

I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure.

So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster.

Or am I wrong?

All the best,
Luis
09-10-2010, 02:54 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by AngryCorgi Quote
In-body VR is not necessary (especially VR that only offers ~2 stops at most) when you have 3-stop and 4-stop reduction in many of the lenses.
I'm not sure how in-body VR works, since I never saw such a thing - but SR can easily give more than 2 stops.
The latest VR/IS lenses could be better, for all I know; but IMO SR works just fine.
09-10-2010, 02:55 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by lpfonseca Quote
Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed?

I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure.

So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster.

Or am I wrong?
Flashes vary their output by cutting off the duration of the flash, not by reducing power. If the time required to put out a full-duration pulse is longer than the sync speed, there's a problem.
09-10-2010, 03:07 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? My K20D has been a great and dependable camera, it has built my confidence in Pentax, and I am betting that the K5 will continue that trend. There are lots of cameras out there.....if I was not happy, I would just buy one of the others......no point in whining about a rock in your shoe, just stop and take it out, how hard is that?
Regards!
+1 to that .

09-10-2010, 03:08 PM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by civiletti Quote
Yep, ISO64 is what I use for sports.
ISO 64 for sports? Such as what? Chess?

Edit: Guess I was too late on the comment. Sorry!

Last edited by lpfonseca; 09-10-2010 at 03:10 PM. Reason: too late
09-10-2010, 03:09 PM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like?
+1 to that. I'm afraid I will be seriously hit by CBA later this month. The K-5 will probably turn out to be a really serious upgrade from my K10D, which will be 3 years old this christmas. Computers get outdated after about 3 years and it seems that my K10D will also need replacement after 3 years.
09-10-2010, 03:10 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Flashes vary their output by cutting off the duration of the flash, not by reducing power. If the time required to put out a full-duration pulse is longer than the sync speed, there's a problem.
Your theory is somewhat correct, but no flash in the world is anywhere near as slow as that. A flashgun (or studio flash) will empty its full charge in less than a millisecond.

QuoteOriginally posted by lpfonseca Quote
After this you lost me.
Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed?

I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure.

So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster.

Or am I wrong?
You're right. The entire sensor have to be visible while the flash emits light. That's what makes it so damn difficult to create a camera with a high sync speed. The shutter curtain would have to travel extremely fast. In fact some older DSLRs (Nikon D70, D40? and one of the early Canons) actually had an electronic shutter that allowed for a lot higher sync speeds of 1/500s+
09-10-2010, 03:16 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm not sure how in-body VR works, since I never saw such a thing - but SR can easily give more than 2 stops.
The latest VR/IS lenses could be better, for all I know; but IMO SR works just fine.
VR = vibration reduction...SR = shake reduction...tomāto...tomăto...VR in-lens is tuned to a given focal length...SR in-camera is moving the sensor to match the vibration as is limited to the range-of-motion of the sensor within the camera...at any rate, it works best at normal FLs. The longer the FL, the less "shake reduction"...a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.
09-10-2010, 03:28 PM   #193
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I bet the new K-5 has 720p m-jpeg, no AF in video and no manual control. I betcha the non-existant tethering!
09-10-2010, 03:36 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by AngryCorgi Quote
VR = vibration reduction...SR = shake reduction...tomāto...tomăto...VR in-lens is tuned to a given focal length...SR in-camera is moving the sensor to match the vibration as is limited to the range-of-motion of the sensor within the camera...at any rate, it works best at normal FLs. The longer the FL, the less "shake reduction"...a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.
Seeing from your profile that you're a new member and a Nikon user, I'll hazard a guess that you've never actually used a Pentax. So please provide substantive evidence to back up what you claim.
09-10-2010, 03:52 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by AngryCorgi Quote
.a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.
That was true 2 camera generations ago. The thing about SR however, it improves on every camera. So the lenses we buy today will have the top "VR XIV" or whatever they will call it in 10 years time and all we have to do is buy the camera itself.
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