Possible Complete K-5 Specs (Still rumour until the 22nd!)

**NaClH2O** · 09-10-2010, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by AngryCorgi

I'm not here to argue ticky-tack point, but your information is incorrect...60D max ISO = 12800. If you only post the ticky-tack K-5 advantages and neglect all the ticky-tack 60D advantages then, sure, you can make the the camera "appear" to have a clear advantage...but that would be flawed logic. At any rate, they ARE comparable cameras on most points. There is some small give-and-take here and there, but the most noticeable hurdle is the $600 variance in MSRP.

But you were arguing "ticky-tack point" when you say "very comparable". And as far as ISO is concerned I was comparing standard ISO to standard ISO. IE 6400 standard ISO on the Canon vs 12800 standard ISO on the Pentax. If you want to compare max ISO then you have to go to 25,600 for the Pentax. And I completely disagree that the two cameras are comparable. Yes the Canon has an articulated LCD. But it doesn't have WR, or a magnesium frame, or in-body SR. It has half the AF points. Continuous shooting is 5.3fps vs 8fps for the K-5. Basically I would put the Canon one level below the K-5 based on published specs. I'm sure most would agree with me. But if you want to say the two are comparable, go ahead. I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who prefers science fiction.

NaCl(facts on the other hand are facts)H2O

AngryCorgi · 09-10-2010, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by NaClH2O

But you were arguing "ticky-tack point" when you say "very comparable". And as far as ISO is concerned I was comparing standard ISO to standard ISO. IE 6400 standard ISO on the Canon vs 12800 standard ISO on the Pentax. If you want to compare max ISO then you have to go to 25,600 for the Pentax. And I completely disagree that the two cameras are comparable. Yes the Canon has an articulated LCD. But it doesn't have WR, or a magnesium frame, or in-body SR. It has half the AF points. Continuous shooting is 5.3fps vs 8fps for the K-5. Basically I would put the Canon one level below the K-5 based on published specs. I'm sure most would agree with me. But if you want to say the two are comparable, go ahead. I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who prefers science fiction.

NaCl(facts on the other hand are facts)H2O

In-body VR is not necessary (especially VR that only offers ~2 stops at most) when you have 3-stop and 4-stop reduction in many of the lenses. I would agree its a nice feature for primes (my old E-P1 came in handy in that regard), but the physics of sensor-based VR shows clearly its growing ineffectiveness at longer FLs. Your ISO argument is interesting in that you've now redefined what "you meant", so that's a cute defense. At any rate, if the K-7 was any indication of how the K-5 will handle ISO6400 (or higher for that matter), then raising the sensitivity will only be good for posting stamp-sized web photos. The Canon 1D4 does ISO512000 and ISO1024000, but they are completely useless...so comparing #s alone really is pointless...but given your rude "science fiction" remark, I'd say pointless was the name of your game.

**NaClH2O** · 09-10-2010, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by happygui

The fact is Pentax bodys dont hold its value very well. how much was it when it just came out last year? Now, you probably can easily find a deal on a brand new one for less than 830.

The used market is even worse. (not bad for buyers) I guess the k5's price most likely will drop to under 1000 by the end of next year.

I'm not conversant with either Canon or Nikon gear, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that their bodies don't hold value very well either. I'm sure people will correct me if I'm wrong.
Pentax lenses on the other hand are a good value. I had to replace my beloved Pentax K 135 F2.5 that I bought back in 2005 (2006?) for $105 from KEH (E+ grade) my replacement cost considerably more, it works as as the original used to, but it's more like E- than E+.

NaCl( to quote Ben "bodies are bodies but good glass is forever" )H2O

Rupert · 09-10-2010, 02:44 PM

While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? My K20D has been a great and dependable camera, it has built my confidence in Pentax, and I am betting that the K5 will continue that trend. There are lots of cameras out there.....if I was not happy, I would just buy one of the others......no point in whining about a rock in your shoe, just stop and take it out, how hard is that?
Regards!

lpfonseca · 09-10-2010, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

The flash thing is actually plausible.

After this you lost me.

Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed?

I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure.

So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster.

Or am I wrong?

All the best,
Luis

Kunzite · 09-10-2010, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by AngryCorgi

In-body VR is not necessary (especially VR that only offers ~2 stops at most) when you have 3-stop and 4-stop reduction in many of the lenses.

I'm not sure how in-body VR works, since I never saw such a thing

- but SR can easily give more than 2 stops.
The latest VR/IS lenses could be better, for all I know; but IMO SR works just fine.

mattdm · 09-10-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by lpfonseca

Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed?

I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure.

So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster.

Or am I wrong?

Flashes vary their output by cutting off the duration of the flash, not by reducing power. If the time required to put out a full-duration pulse is longer than the sync speed, there's a problem.

Ken T · 09-10-2010, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? My K20D has been a great and dependable camera, it has built my confidence in Pentax, and I am betting that the K5 will continue that trend. There are lots of cameras out there.....if I was not happy, I would just buy one of the others......no point in whining about a rock in your shoe, just stop and take it out, how hard is that?
Regards!

+1 to that .

lpfonseca · 09-10-2010, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by civiletti

Yep, ISO64 is what I use for sports.

ISO 64 for sports? Such as what? Chess?

Edit: Guess I was too late on the comment. Sorry!

gazonk · 09-10-2010, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like?

+1 to that. I'm afraid I will be seriously hit by CBA later this month. The K-5 will probably turn out to be a really serious upgrade from my K10D, which will be 3 years old this christmas. Computers get outdated after about 3 years and it seems that my K10D will also need replacement after 3 years.

sveinmb · 09-10-2010, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

Flashes vary their output by cutting off the duration of the flash, not by reducing power. If the time required to put out a full-duration pulse is longer than the sync speed, there's a problem.

Your theory is somewhat correct, but no flash in the world is anywhere near as slow as that. A flashgun (or studio flash) will empty its full charge in less than a millisecond.

Originally posted by lpfonseca

After this you lost me.
Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed?

I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure.

So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster.

Or am I wrong?

You're right. The entire sensor have to be visible while the flash emits light. That's what makes it so damn difficult to create a camera with a high sync speed. The shutter curtain would have to travel extremely fast. In fact some older DSLRs (Nikon D70, D40? and one of the early Canons) actually had an electronic shutter that allowed for a lot higher sync speeds of 1/500s+

AngryCorgi · 09-10-2010, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Kunzite

I'm not sure how in-body VR works, since I never saw such a thing

- but SR can easily give more than 2 stops.
The latest VR/IS lenses could be better, for all I know; but IMO SR works just fine.

VR = vibration reduction...SR = shake reduction...tomāto...tomăto...VR in-lens is tuned to a given focal length...SR in-camera is moving the sensor to match the vibration as is limited to the range-of-motion of the sensor within the camera...at any rate, it works best at normal FLs. The longer the FL, the less "shake reduction"...a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.

Shashinki · 09-10-2010, 03:28 PM

I bet the new K-5 has 720p m-jpeg, no AF in video and no manual control. I betcha the non-existant tethering!

creampuff · 09-10-2010, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by AngryCorgi

VR = vibration reduction...SR = shake reduction...tomāto...tomăto...VR in-lens is tuned to a given focal length...SR in-camera is moving the sensor to match the vibration as is limited to the range-of-motion of the sensor within the camera...at any rate, it works best at normal FLs. The longer the FL, the less "shake reduction"...a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.

Seeing from your profile that you're a new member and a Nikon user, I'll hazard a guess that you've never actually used a Pentax. So please provide substantive evidence to back up what you claim.

Shashinki · 09-10-2010, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by AngryCorgi

.a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.

That was true 2 camera generations ago. The thing about SR however, it improves on every camera. So the lenses we buy today will have the top "VR XIV" or whatever they will call it in 10 years time and all we have to do is buy the camera itself.

09-10-2010, 03:08 PM	#189
lpfonseca Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lisbon Posts: 143	Originally posted by civiletti Yep, ISO64 is what I use for sports. ISO 64 for sports? Such as what? Chess? Edit: Guess I was too late on the comment. Sorry! Last edited by lpfonseca; 09-10-2010 at 03:10 PM. Reason: too late

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09-10-2010, 01:41 PM	#181
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Originally posted by AngryCorgi I'm not here to argue ticky-tack point, but your information is incorrect...60D max ISO = 12800. If you only post the ticky-tack K-5 advantages and neglect all the ticky-tack 60D advantages then, sure, you can make the the camera "appear" to have a clear advantage...but that would be flawed logic. At any rate, they ARE comparable cameras on most points. There is some small give-and-take here and there, but the most noticeable hurdle is the $600 variance in MSRP. But you were arguing "ticky-tack point" when you say "very comparable". And as far as ISO is concerned I was comparing standard ISO to standard ISO. IE 6400 standard ISO on the Canon vs 12800 standard ISO on the Pentax. If you want to compare max ISO then you have to go to 25,600 for the Pentax. And I completely disagree that the two cameras are comparable. Yes the Canon has an articulated LCD. But it doesn't have WR, or a magnesium frame, or in-body SR. It has half the AF points. Continuous shooting is 5.3fps vs 8fps for the K-5. Basically I would put the Canon one level below the K-5 based on published specs. I'm sure most would agree with me. But if you want to say the two are comparable, go ahead. I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who prefers science fiction. NaCl(facts on the other hand are facts)H2O

09-10-2010, 02:17 PM	#182
AngryCorgi Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Northern VA Posts: 73	Originally posted by NaClH2O But you were arguing "ticky-tack point" when you say "very comparable". And as far as ISO is concerned I was comparing standard ISO to standard ISO. IE 6400 standard ISO on the Canon vs 12800 standard ISO on the Pentax. If you want to compare max ISO then you have to go to 25,600 for the Pentax. And I completely disagree that the two cameras are comparable. Yes the Canon has an articulated LCD. But it doesn't have WR, or a magnesium frame, or in-body SR. It has half the AF points. Continuous shooting is 5.3fps vs 8fps for the K-5. Basically I would put the Canon one level below the K-5 based on published specs. I'm sure most would agree with me. But if you want to say the two are comparable, go ahead. I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone who prefers science fiction. NaCl(facts on the other hand are facts)H2O In-body VR is not necessary (especially VR that only offers ~2 stops at most) when you have 3-stop and 4-stop reduction in many of the lenses. I would agree its a nice feature for primes (my old E-P1 came in handy in that regard), but the physics of sensor-based VR shows clearly its growing ineffectiveness at longer FLs. Your ISO argument is interesting in that you've now redefined what "you meant", so that's a cute defense. At any rate, if the K-7 was any indication of how the K-5 will handle ISO6400 (or higher for that matter), then raising the sensitivity will only be good for posting stamp-sized web photos. The Canon 1D4 does ISO512000 and ISO1024000, but they are completely useless...so comparing #s alone really is pointless...but given your rude "science fiction" remark, I'd say pointless was the name of your game.

09-10-2010, 02:21 PM	#183
NaClH2O Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bronx NY Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,631	Originally posted by happygui The fact is Pentax bodys dont hold its value very well. how much was it when it just came out last year? Now, you probably can easily find a deal on a brand new one for less than 830. The used market is even worse. (not bad for buyers) I guess the k5's price most likely will drop to under 1000 by the end of next year. I'm not conversant with either Canon or Nikon gear, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that their bodies don't hold value very well either. I'm sure people will correct me if I'm wrong. Pentax lenses on the other hand are a good value. I had to replace my beloved Pentax K 135 F2.5 that I bought back in 2005 (2006?) for $105 from KEH (E+ grade) my replacement cost considerably more, it works as as the original used to, but it's more like E- than E+. NaCl( to quote Ben "bodies are bodies but good glass is forever" )H2O

09-10-2010, 02:44 PM	#184
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? My K20D has been a great and dependable camera, it has built my confidence in Pentax, and I am betting that the K5 will continue that trend. There are lots of cameras out there.....if I was not happy, I would just buy one of the others......no point in whining about a rock in your shoe, just stop and take it out, how hard is that? Regards!

09-10-2010, 02:48 PM	#185
lpfonseca Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lisbon Posts: 143	Originally posted by mattdm The flash thing is actually plausible. After this you lost me. Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed? I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure. So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster. Or am I wrong? All the best, Luis

09-10-2010, 02:54 PM	#186
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by AngryCorgi In-body VR is not necessary (especially VR that only offers ~2 stops at most) when you have 3-stop and 4-stop reduction in many of the lenses. I'm not sure how in-body VR works, since I never saw such a thing - but SR can easily give more than 2 stops. The latest VR/IS lenses could be better, for all I know; but IMO SR works just fine.

09-10-2010, 02:55 PM	#187
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by lpfonseca Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed? I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure. So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster. Or am I wrong? Flashes vary their output by cutting off the duration of the flash, not by reducing power. If the time required to put out a full-duration pulse is longer than the sync speed, there's a problem.

09-10-2010, 03:07 PM	#188
Ken T Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: California, USA Posts: 536	Originally posted by Rupert While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? My K20D has been a great and dependable camera, it has built my confidence in Pentax, and I am betting that the K5 will continue that trend. There are lots of cameras out there.....if I was not happy, I would just buy one of the others......no point in whining about a rock in your shoe, just stop and take it out, how hard is that? Regards! +1 to that .

09-10-2010, 03:09 PM	#190
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by Rupert While everyone beats each other up....I'm getting more excited about the K5 with each passing day. If Pentax got the ISO right, and everything else is as good as the K7...or better, what is not to like? +1 to that. I'm afraid I will be seriously hit by CBA later this month. The K-5 will probably turn out to be a really serious upgrade from my K10D, which will be 3 years old this christmas. Computers get outdated after about 3 years and it seems that my K10D will also need replacement after 3 years.

09-10-2010, 03:10 PM	#191
sveinmb Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 127	Originally posted by mattdm Flashes vary their output by cutting off the duration of the flash, not by reducing power. If the time required to put out a full-duration pulse is longer than the sync speed, there's a problem. Your theory is somewhat correct, but no flash in the world is anywhere near as slow as that. A flashgun (or studio flash) will empty its full charge in less than a millisecond. Originally posted by lpfonseca After this you lost me. Isn't flash sync speed dependent on curtain speed? I thought that since the flash is extremely fast the curtains had to be open for the duraction of the exposure. So, in order to get faster flash sync speeds, curtains had to move faster. Or am I wrong? You're right. The entire sensor have to be visible while the flash emits light. That's what makes it so damn difficult to create a camera with a high sync speed. The shutter curtain would have to travel extremely fast. In fact some older DSLRs (Nikon D70, D40? and one of the early Canons) actually had an electronic shutter that allowed for a lot higher sync speeds of 1/500s+

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09-10-2010, 03:16 PM	#192
AngryCorgi Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Northern VA Posts: 73	Originally posted by Kunzite I'm not sure how in-body VR works, since I never saw such a thing - but SR can easily give more than 2 stops. The latest VR/IS lenses could be better, for all I know; but IMO SR works just fine. VR = vibration reduction...SR = shake reduction...tomāto...tomăto...VR in-lens is tuned to a given focal length...SR in-camera is moving the sensor to match the vibration as is limited to the range-of-motion of the sensor within the camera...at any rate, it works best at normal FLs. The longer the FL, the less "shake reduction"...a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily.

09-10-2010, 03:28 PM	#193
Shashinki Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 355	I bet the new K-5 has 720p m-jpeg, no AF in video and no manual control. I betcha the non-existant tethering!

09-10-2010, 03:36 PM	#194
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by AngryCorgi VR = vibration reduction...SR = shake reduction...tomāto...tomăto...VR in-lens is tuned to a given focal length...SR in-camera is moving the sensor to match the vibration as is limited to the range-of-motion of the sensor within the camera...at any rate, it works best at normal FLs. The longer the FL, the less "shake reduction"...a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily. Seeing from your profile that you're a new member and a Nikon user, I'll hazard a guess that you've never actually used a Pentax. So please provide substantive evidence to back up what you claim.

09-10-2010, 03:52 PM	#195
Shashinki Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Norway Posts: 355	Originally posted by AngryCorgi .a canon or nikon 300mm lens with current-gen IS/VR will outperform "SR" with a 300mm lens easily. That was true 2 camera generations ago. The thing about SR however, it improves on every camera. So the lenses we buy today will have the top "VR XIV" or whatever they will call it in 10 years time and all we have to do is buy the camera itself.