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09-25-2010, 06:31 PM   #166
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All technology progresses and a lot of the time this progression is carefully controlled by the major players. Why?, so they can extract the maximum profits from each stage. There will undoubtably be new camera technology in the next few years. IF some of that new stuff involves the use of full frame sensors in current sized aps-c bodies then that will become the norm. If full frame is better than cropped sensors (and we know they currentky are) then that is what will happen. That is probably when Pentax will produce a full frame. Unless of course they have been working on one already, and like the 645D, will eventually be released. When aps-c has reached it's limits Canon and Nikon and others will bring out a whole new range of full frame sensor based cameras, probably all electrinic and who knows what else. And people will buy them because we all what the latest and the greatest, don't we?

09-25-2010, 07:17 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Don't waste time Pentaxor, get the equipment you need now. Pentax will not be making a FF. The only way they can make it clearer is by going bankrupt. You have to give them credit for never promising anything.
I'm waiting for the other players to come out with something new next year, not hoping anything from Pentax. besides, I'm waiting for a significant drop on the prices of FF bodies.
09-25-2010, 08:10 PM - 1 Like   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I'm waiting for the other players to come out with something new next year, not hoping anything from Pentax. besides, I'm waiting for a significant drop on the prices of FF bodies.
I'm guessing you'll be waiting quite a while. Even Sony said they weren't sure if they were going to release an A55 style Full Frame camera. I don't think they have done well with that format. I don't think Canon or Nikon really sell that many of them. The trend appears to be more towards mirrorless and ASP-C than Full Frame. If I had to guess Full Frame bodies are stuck at $2500+. Although Sony has one at around $2000. You could probably get a good deal on one used though. I've thought about that. Like you I can't justify a $2500+ camera body. It's a great hobby but at $2500 it starts needing to be a "I'm paying the rent with this."
09-25-2010, 09:03 PM   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I'm guessing you'll be waiting quite a while. Even Sony said they weren't sure if they were going to release an A55 style Full Frame camera. I don't think they have done well with that format. I don't think Canon or Nikon really sell that many of them. The trend appears to be more towards mirrorless and ASP-C than Full Frame. If I had to guess Full Frame bodies are stuck at $2500+. Although Sony has one at around $2000. You could probably get a good deal on one used though. I've thought about that. Like you I can't justify a $2500+ camera body. It's a great hobby but at $2500 it starts needing to be a "I'm paying the rent with this."
Canon will release a 5D MKIII, that's why there has been a fluctuation of used or BNIB copy of 5D MKII. I had seen a few selling below 2,000, even as low as $1700 locally. but I know that it will drop more by next year, around 1k to 1,4. so all is good.

although I have to say that a mirrorless option would be great. I'm not totally closed minded but we'll see how it goes come Nov. 2011.

09-26-2010, 02:28 AM   #170
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
we'll see how it goes come Nov. 2011.
Dont wait.... Go FF now, and then change body next year.

Otherwise you will just be unhappy and have no lust to acctually use your stuff, that you know you're going to sell anyway. I mean....its just gadgets....do what you want NOW.

Its taking pictures that matters.
09-26-2010, 03:47 AM   #171
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I think the biggest issue for Pentax is to find a FF sensor. Finding an APS-C sensor seems much easier at least.

And financially it seems to make more sense to jump into the mirrorless bandwagon than the FF one. Looking at the improvements done in CD-AF on the K-5, it seems clear that Hoya spent some R&D on that. It would be nice if they did FF and mirrorless in the same camera. But once again it's finding the good sensor that may be hard. You can be sure that the next big thing in mirrorless kingdom will be PD-AF built onto the sensor.
09-26-2010, 04:06 AM   #172
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I think the biggest issue for Pentax is to find a FF sensor. Finding an APS-C sensor seems much easier at least.
Funny...Sony has at least 2 FF sensors. Kodak.
09-26-2010, 04:31 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Funny...Sony has at least 2 FF sensors. Kodak.
2 FF sensors? Aside from the "noisy" 24MP, which one it is? And the Kodak is a CCD (no LV, no video = no market). If Pentax makes an FF they won't select a mediocre sensor. Sensor is what killed the MZ-D and almost killed the 645D. I'm sure that the lack of success of A850/A900 is related to the sensor because otherwise they are very nice full featured camera (except for the lack of LV and video).

09-26-2010, 05:27 AM   #174
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It is reported/rumored that Pentax is discontinuing the FA ltd lenses. If true, I'd take that as pretty clear evidence that a FF Pentax DSLR is not going to happen.
09-26-2010, 05:39 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
2 FF sensors? Aside from the "noisy" 24MP, which one it is? And the Kodak is a CCD (no LV, no video = no market). If Pentax makes an FF they won't select a mediocre sensor. Sensor is what killed the MZ-D and almost killed the 645D. I'm sure that the lack of success of A850/A900 is related to the sensor because otherwise they are very nice full featured camera (except for the lack of LV and video).
24 MP has rather good DR and colours. Noise is not problems. Bad colours and IQ is MORE problem.

CCD - I bet that a lot of Pentaxian buy FF camera from Pentax with Kodak CCD without any video and LV.

M9 is profitable camera, by the way...

I don't understand your deep thought about almost killed 645D
09-26-2010, 05:47 AM   #176
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I hope that Pentax can make FF EVIL with new bayonet.

I see only ONE solution. To make new DC only bayonet for new FF EVIL/Hybrid system.
With flange focal distance lower than 30 mm to make fast compact lenses and compact bodies.

Last edited by ogl; 09-26-2010 at 06:12 AM.
09-26-2010, 06:18 AM   #177
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I hope that Pentax can make FF EVIL with new bayonet.
I'd like to see that myself, that would really separate them from everyone else. If they make the mount compatible with Leica glass via an adapter I could see a good portion of rangefinder users coming to Pentax. It would be even harder to justify a $7000 Leica M9 if Pentax offered something similar for under $2000.

But honestly, APS-C IQ is so good now I really don't see much of a need for full frame these days. My interest in FF in DSLR's has always been more about the larger OVF's, better high ISO, and shallower DOF.

However if the samples I've seen of the new Nikon D7000 are any indication APS-C now has all the high ISO ability I'll ever need, and I can work around the DOF issue. Unlike OVF's EVF size isn't related to sensor/mirror size, so full frame makes a bit more sense to me in DSLR's than in EVIL's.

I am curious as to how Pentax will top the K5. Can anyone honestly say the K5 is beneath their ability? It has wonderful high ISO, shoots plenty fast for anyone with an ounce of skill, and has enough resolution to make very large prints. Camera makers are soon going to have the same problem PC manufactures currently have. Computers have been so fast for years people no longer upgrade as often as they used to, and I think the K5 will cause the same issue for Pentax. It looks so good that it would be very tough to justify upgrading it. The best thing might to be offer something different since they can't really make it much better...a full frame EVIL or DSLR would certainly be different.
09-26-2010, 06:34 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I can understand your crave about FF (lots of discussion already). However, with the release of K-5/D7000, the advantage gap between FF and APS-C is shrinking. For the average people, FF is not the ultimate goal anymore; it will remain in the "professional" top tier circle occupied by the top two camera makers. Unless, of course, Canikon changes the playing field by flooding the FF camera with the same price of APS-C camera - don't see that happening in the next couple of years.

Until then, one can only dream a FF in K-7/K-5 body; for me, I am ok with K-5 or its successor.
FF is not 'ulimate', nor should it be synonimous with 'professional'.

But these delusional FFfanboys think it's the 'holy grail' for some reason. Well they can measurebate on APS-C vs FF till they go blind.

Gimme a 645D any day.
09-26-2010, 06:46 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
24 MP has rather good DR and colours. Noise is not problems. Bad colours and IQ is MORE problem.
You didn't answer my question, what is the second FF sensor Sony is supposed to produce?

The 24MP FF Sony sensor is very good but at high ISO it has a deserved bad reputation. And that's probably why the A850 didn't do so well even at its price point. Pentax would be well advised to not use that sensor. They need something better.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
CCD - I bet that a lot of Pentaxian buy FF camera from Pentax with Kodak CCD without any video and LV.

M9 is profitable camera, by the way...
Not me. I don't care for video but Liveview is very useful for careful work like landscapes, macros, etc.

M9 maybe profitable but that's also because it's a completely different product. Pentax OTOH would produce yet another FF. They would compete with Sony, Canon and Nikon in what is already a niche market. I'm sure the bean counter at Pentax concluded that it made no sense unless they had a special feature to make the product really unique.

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't understand your deep thought about almost killed 645D
At the time Pentax was ready for the 645D, they only had a 18MP sensor available. It would have been obsolete by now. Not many suppliers for medium format sensors. They settled on a 33x44cm to be able to sell the camera below the 10K$ price point.
09-26-2010, 06:54 AM   #180
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mohawk Quote
But these delusional FFfanboys think it's the 'holy grail' for some reason.
It is the Holy Grail because it is a sweet spot where optics are concerned. That's the only one that allows such DOF control. MF is theoretically able to allow more DOF control but in practice you don't see lenses faster than f/2.8 or as many varied zooms.

The only aspect where FF is not a "sweet spot" is in sensor size. It's more difficult to produce 24x36mm sensor in one shot, they have to be stitched. If you think about it that's the only reason why APS-C has been so popular. Because it is cheaper to produce.
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