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09-26-2010, 05:27 PM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The D-Lux-4 and LX3/LX5 cameras do HD video with a 1/1.63 CCD which are approaching the 4/3 sensor size.
I'm not sure what's your point here. 1/1.63" is far from approaching the 4/3 sensor size which has more than 4x the area (48mm˛ vs 225mm˛).

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
you are free to think what you believe in.
Well, show me the data or the pictures supporting the idea that the Kodak sensor performs better, even at low ISO.

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
the argument is about producing and selling budget Leica,
And you think that putting a CCD sensor in it would change its price? They had to use a CMOS because the camera is using LV like any P&S.

09-26-2010, 05:38 PM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote


Well, show me the data or the pictures supporting the idea that the Kodak sensor performs better, even at low ISO.
can you show me yours otherwise with the specific parameters that you've mentioned? tell me which particular camera with a 24MP Sony CMOS sensor is better than the 645D 40MP Kodak CCD sensor?



QuoteQuote:
And you think that putting a CCD sensor in it would change its price?
Yes.

Code:
They had to use a CMOS because the camera is using LV like any P&S.
I believe I mentioned that. please refer to my post #192 and I quote "the only think that works for the CMOS sensor is it's video capability over CCD." that includes LV. but I can live without the LV since I use the VF for photography.
09-26-2010, 06:51 PM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
can you show me yours otherwise with the specific parameters that you've mentioned? tell me which particular camera with a 24MP Sony CMOS sensor is better than the 645D 40MP Kodak CCD sensor?
They're different size, so it's not fair. But the D3x showed slightly better DR and noise control over the Phase One P40+ on the DXOmark.

And you think that putting a CCD sensor in it would change its price?
QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
Yes.
No. That's ridiculous, look at how cheap the cameras based on the Sony 10MP CCD were sold: Nikon D3000, Pentax K-m, etc. Sony also produced a 14MP version. What makes you believe it costs more to produce CCD sensors than CMOS?

A good discussion (by people who know a bit more about CCD vs CMOS than you and me) can be found here.
09-26-2010, 07:45 PM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
They're different size, so it's not fair. But the D3x showed slightly better DR and noise control over the Phase One P40+ on the DXOmark.
Well, you were the one who did generalize that the CMOS is better than the CCD. so size shoudn't even be an issue right? as DR, down-scaled resolution equivalent to 24MP should show a difference. so you said slightly with the old Phase One Model. so it's not even a clear advantage. if you think that CMOS is really better in terms of DR and did a DXOmarks comparison, try to look up and compare the D90 and K-x against the S5Pro. now that CCD camera is 3 years older than the D90 and K-x which are loaded with a newer Sony CMOS sensor. these 3 dslrs are of the same sensor size.



QuoteQuote:
That's ridiculous, look at how cheap the cameras based on the Sony 10MP CCD were sold: Nikon D3000, Pentax K-m, etc. Sony also produced a 14MP version. What makes you believe it costs more to produce CCD sensors than CMOS?
Do you know know how much a used S5Pro costs at today's market? hint: it's not ridiculous as a joke, but ridiculously still expensive even after 3 years. the k-x has barely reached 1 year old, yet it costs $200 less for what it was last year. you can include the D90 as well.


Last edited by Pentaxor; 09-26-2010 at 07:59 PM.
09-26-2010, 09:26 PM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
I'm not sure what's your point here. 1/1.63" is far from approaching the 4/3 sensor size which has more than 4x the area (48mm˛ vs 225mm˛).

Actually cowboy, I know the sizes and diagonals of these sensors. There is one standard size sensor in between the 2. Hence, my approaching comment. My point was they do video with ccd quite well. Most of the compacts use the 1/2.3" sensor but the LX3 aka D-Lux-4 slipped in a bigger sensor which is why it is a better performer than the G11 etc.

1/1.63": 6.01 x 8
4/3: 13 x 17.3
09-27-2010, 03:34 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
Do you know know how much a used S5Pro costs at today's market?
You change the comparisons all the time to suit your argument, I'm not sure it's worth continuing like that as obviously you're more interested about being right than about knowledge.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Actually cowboy,
Cowboy? Now that's funny
09-27-2010, 06:50 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote



Cowboy? Now that's funny
I don't use "Dude" on anyone out of high school. Plus, it is way over done. HeadBanger
09-27-2010, 09:16 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
You change the comparisons all the time to suit your argument, I'm not sure it's worth continuing like that as obviously you're more interested about being right than about knowledge.

. that's exactly the point of this discussion. you were the one who generalized that CMOS is better than CCD, so I provided you with arguments and DXOMarks reference that what you are saying is not correct. also, you said that it is ridiculous for me to believe that it pays more to have a top-end CCD sensor and
you did ask me and I quote you on this that
QuoteQuote:
"What makes you believe it costs more to produce CCD sensors than CMOS?"
, and I provided you one that would give you an idea of where that came from. or did I just imagined that you posted these.

the point of this discussion is to remove any bias towards CMOS as the better sensor just because that is where most camera manufacturers are heading for. CMOS and CCD are different technologies and have different pros and cons. now to say and generalize that one is better over the other without having to seriously look on what each is really capable of is nothing more than downplay a particular sensor technology. I'm not trying to win a discussion here but rather share information that would answer people's doubt about something in particular, or update or revise what they previously believe as fact. now, if you are still doubtful, even after I gave some points, that is your choice. as I previously mentioned "you are free to think what you believe in", but you didn't stop there but continue to pursue or extend this discussion. so Yeah, believe whatever suits you better.

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