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09-22-2010, 05:24 PM   #121
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There is no doubt this was not going to happen from Pentax. But i do think there would be some rethinking this decision, after Nikon announced the D7000. To release a small bodied large FF sensor in a K-7 type body (with grip) is the only way the reviews of Pentax high ISO would blow away the D7000.

Sharing the same APS-C will mean they share the same issues, going to a FF for a slightly higher price than the D7000, would of made Pentax look like they are again a year ahead of the others.. But i feel like they thought putting a Sony APS-C sensor would be enough to win reviews (as it was for the K-x) but the market moved, and Pentax got stung.

So now that this has happened, the answer was/is a FX Pentax. Before the D7000, i would of suggested an EVIL & APS-C would of sold much more for Pentax, but after the D7000 i think Pentax needed a FX to differentiate themselves as a leader again.

09-23-2010, 12:32 AM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Freak Quote
There is no doubt this was not going to happen from Pentax. But i do think there would be some rethinking this decision, after Nikon announced the D7000. To release a small bodied large FF sensor in a K-7 type body (with grip) is the only way the reviews of Pentax high ISO would blow away the D7000.

Sharing the same APS-C will mean they share the same issues, going to a FF for a slightly higher price than the D7000, would of made Pentax look like they are again a year ahead of the others.. But i feel like they thought putting a Sony APS-C sensor would be enough to win reviews (as it was for the K-x) but the market moved, and Pentax got stung.

So now that this has happened, the answer was/is a FX Pentax. Before the D7000, i would of suggested an EVIL & APS-C would of sold much more for Pentax, but after the D7000 i think Pentax needed a FX to differentiate themselves as a leader again.
Remind me, when Pentax was a leader?
09-23-2010, 02:35 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Remind me, when Pentax was a leader?
In the previous century of course. Pentax was the first to reach the 1 Million SLR mark in 1966, and the first to reach the 10 Million SLR mark in 1981.
09-23-2010, 01:38 PM   #124
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To answer the OP's original question and the title of this thread: the 645D is next.

Pentax just announced global availability of the 645D, beginning in Dec. 2010.

US price: $9,999.95, body only.

Gotta go buy me some Powerball tickets...

09-23-2010, 01:46 PM - 1 Like   #125
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I thought this year was going to be the year full frame became main stream ($1,500 price range), potentially forcing Pentax to enter the full frame race. Then the Canon 7D came out and the Nikon D300s came out, and all we've seen since then is a stream of newer and better APS-C cameras. It's still conceivable that Pentax will come out with a full frame camera some day, but I'm beginning to feel like if it doesn't happen next year it probably won't happen at all depending on the direction Pentax decides to go. I still think a EVIL camera of some type from them is much more likely.
09-23-2010, 03:14 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Remind me, when Pentax was a leader?
I only purchased into Pentax a few months back, Pentax have traditionally given more bang for buck, 1/8000th, Magnesium, SR, WR, etc... This time Nikon have caught up and Pentax are barely in front.
09-23-2010, 03:37 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Remind me, when Pentax was a leader?
In mf, the last decade i.e. the 1990s since this is still technically the last year of the first decade of the 21st Century. Lets not forget Japanese camera makers didn't know what an slr was until Asahi Optical showed them. The biggest thing that set Pentax back was the loss of a lawsuit in the late 1980s to Honeywell to the tune of ~ $38 M. It turns out Honeywell had a descriptively similar patent to Honeywell and they sued Asahi Optical for technology in the ME F. After Pentax Honeywell also sued Canon over technology in the AL-1, but Canon came out of the lawsuit in better shape. Canon was and is a more diversified company much like Konic-Minolta is.

Last edited by Blue; 09-23-2010 at 03:42 PM.
09-23-2010, 07:04 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Freak Quote
Sharing the same APS-C will mean they share the same issues, going to a FF for a slightly higher price than the D7000, would of made Pentax look like they are again a year ahead of the others..
QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
To answer the OP's original question and the title of this thread: the 645D is next.
Pentax just announced global availability of the 645D, beginning in Dec. 2010.
US price: $9,999.95, body only.
Gotta go buy me some Powerball tickets...
There is a large price disparity between the 645D and most FF cameras. Pentax's target of "advanced level" bodies and "pro-thusiast" people (look at the K-5 preview from Pentax as they used those terms) would suggest a consideration for users who are pro level, but don't necessarily have the resources or justification to buy something like a 645D at $10,000 + lens costs.

While I don't know if the K-7 body could technically fit a full frame sensor and other necessary bits, that would be one seriously awesome camera! It would really show Pentax means business to those "pro-thusiasts" and not to mention actual professional photographers as well. It would also create a bit buzz among people showing this small pro level WR camera with FF.

Pentax probably won't win the "me too" game (just look at some of the K-5 negative comments), so I think they should play off of their strengths but also include things like FF. While plain old FF won't win users over, FF + WR + K-5 like body + Pentax glass + competitive price... So use the ideas of K-7 and 645D and apply it to FF.

09-23-2010, 08:10 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
There is a large price disparity between the 645D and most FF cameras. Pentax's target of "advanced level" bodies and "pro-thusiast" people (look at the K-5 preview from Pentax as they used those terms) would suggest a consideration for users who are pro level, but don't necessarily have the resources or justification to buy something like a 645D at $10,000 + lens costs.

While I don't know if the K-7 body could technically fit a full frame sensor and other necessary bits, that would be one seriously awesome camera! It would really show Pentax means business to those "pro-thusiasts" and not to mention actual professional photographers as well. It would also create a bit buzz among people showing this small pro level WR camera with FF.

Pentax probably won't win the "me too" game (just look at some of the K-5 negative comments), so I think they should play off of their strengths but also include things like FF. While plain old FF won't win users over, FF + WR + K-5 like body + Pentax glass + competitive price... So use the ideas of K-7 and 645D and apply it to FF.
Nikon D3x: $7399.95 shipped, body only
24.5 mp ff sensor

Canon 1Ds Mark III: $6113.95 shipped, body only
21.1 mp ff sensor

The 645D has a much larger sensor but a similar size body. The 645D isn't targeted at the D700 body.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/592951-REG/Nikon_25442_D3x_SLR_Digital_Camera.html
09-23-2010, 08:19 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Freak Quote
But i feel like they thought putting a Sony APS-C sensor would be enough to win reviews (as it was for the K-x) but the market moved, and Pentax got stung.
how'd you figured that out? I didn't see any reviews yet
09-23-2010, 09:32 PM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Nikon D3x: $7399.95 shipped, body only
24.5 mp ff sensor
Canon 1Ds Mark III: $6113.95 shipped, body only
21.1 mp ff sensor
The 645D has a much larger sensor but a similar size body. The 645D isn't targeted at the D700 body.
Nikon D3x SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) 25442 - B&H Photo
I'm not saying the 645D is targeted at pro-enthusiasts, it's targeted at people making serious money in the field as a career. I'm saying if Pentax were to release a 35mm full frame camera, I think they should and most likely would target the enthusiasts rather than the full professionals who buy 1DsIII/d3x. Eg. cameras like the D700 or Sony's FF. My point was that the K-5 is $1400 - $1600 MSRP and then Pentax's next offering jumps up to $10,000 MSRP. That's a big gap of potential users who want more than the K-5, yet less than a 645D.
09-24-2010, 01:33 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
I'm not saying the 645D is targeted at pro-enthusiasts, it's targeted at people making serious money in the field as a career. I'm saying if Pentax were to release a 35mm full frame camera, I think they should and most likely would target the enthusiasts rather than the full professionals who buy 1DsIII/d3x. Eg. cameras like the D700 or Sony's FF. My point was that the K-5 is $1400 - $1600 MSRP and then Pentax's next offering jumps up to $10,000 MSRP. That's a big gap of potential users who want more than the K-5, yet less than a 645D.
Exactly my point, +1 to this. There is an obvious gap in the Pentax lineup esp compared to Canon, Nikon and Sony. The K5 only really appeals to those among us who require fast AF and more FPS. There actually isn't much difference between the K5 and the Kr if you look at the specs and I would be interested to see how the IQ is between the two.
I am not at all worried by the camera size, the K20 is as small as I would like to handle, so a FF that size would be fine by me! You listening Pentax?
09-24-2010, 09:47 AM - 1 Like   #133
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I doubt Pentax has the resource needed to develop a separate line of high quality FF lens.

Plus what was the big deal anyway? 5 years ago FF was a big deal because it offers a noticeable improvement in high ISO performance (among some others, but this was the biggie). Now, the newer crop of aps-c sensors are much improved.

So what really is the big benefit of a full frame nowdays? I think there will always be a small population of people who demand the highest possible definition (re: niche), or a small population of people who likes to take pictures of black jaguars in the jungle, in the middle of a starless moonless night (re: camera testers). But for the vast majority, is there any benefit anymore? Not to mention what would they do with the DA, DA*, DA Limited gears that they currently own?

Really, I don't see the point...
09-24-2010, 01:23 PM   #134
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Pentax isn't Canon or Nikon or Sony. They don't have the resources to be and would have to sell a lot of KX or whatever to even get close. It's unfortunate, but that's reality. The idea that they could just make a Full Frame camera and all of a sudden people would buy them in numbers that would justify the expense is wishful thinking. Ditto with mirrorless. They've probably lost out on that one to Olympus, Panasonic, and Samsung. Just because say 200 people on this forum would want a Full Frame DSLR doesn't mean they could make money off them unless....they were priced like the 645D. Which is probably exactly the point of that camera.

Last edited by stanleyk; 09-24-2010 at 01:24 PM. Reason: grammar
09-24-2010, 01:29 PM   #135
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I was expecting them to release or at least roadmap a FF camera by now. I was hoping that. Now I really think that door's closed. People who really really need one have changed brands now. The few who really need and can afford anything above APS-C have left. What's left is us who prefer the smaller camera bodies, or are cheap/broke. No point releasing one any more.
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