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09-13-2010, 12:23 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
Rolling shutter is very anoying in some circumstances, but in most, it doesn't really matter.

What would matter, though, is high-res, low-lag HDMI output.

And what would be icing on the cake would be Zebras, Focus Peaking, Pixel Binning and well-executed, smooth, high-res digital zoom. And RAW...
The companies with videocam experience - Canon, Panasonic, and Sony - are going to be taking the lead here methinks. Both Sony and Panny are talking about talking about making IL videocams using the guts of their dSLR/EVIL cameras. Panny's GH2 is rumored to have a global shutter.

As much as I'd love Pentax to take a big leap forward with video, I'm not holding my breath...

09-13-2010, 12:29 PM - 1 Like   #17
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I'm not either, because video isn't easy to do.

On the other hand, both Sony and Panasonic so far seem unwilling to completely kill their videocam sales. The Panasonic AG-AF 100 seems nice, but costs 5k. The Sony NEX-VG10 is a (nice) toy. The Sony A55 is severely hampered regarding manual control, and its AF only works wide open and is way too nervous for real use.

Canon will not go down without a fight, either. So far, they completely dominate the VDSLR market, as far as I can tell.

While both Sony and Panasonic have the technological advantage and every camera maker has a larger budget than Pentax, there still is room, because nobody's done it really completely right, yet. That window is closing rapidly, though, and I don't realistically see Pentax doing anything other than "me-too", sadly
09-13-2010, 12:40 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
I'm not either, because video isn't easy to do.

On the other hand, both Sony and Panasonic so far seem unwilling to completely kill their videocam sales. The Panasonic AG-AF 100 seems nice, but costs 5k. The Sony NEX-VG10 is a (nice) toy. The Sony A55 is severely hampered regarding manual control, and its AF only works wide open and is way too nervous for real use.

Canon will not go down without a fight, either. So far, they completely dominate the VDSLR market, as far as I can tell.

While both Sony and Panasonic have the technological advantage and every camera maker has a larger budget than Pentax, there still is room, because nobody's done it really completely right, yet. That window is closing rapidly, though, and I don't realistically see Pentax doing anything other than "me-too", sadly
Good point about Sony and Panny not wanting to cannibalize their own video sales. Maybe JVC should buy Pentax from Hoya...
09-13-2010, 01:16 PM   #19
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fzwo, DPReview says the Panasonic AG-AF 100 is priced at $10k.

Absolutely agree --- the obvious leaders (Panasonic + Sony) --- won't kill their profitable video sales.

Somehow Canon has been willing to risk their low and mid-level pro video market with their VDSLRs.

With nothing to protect in the pro video space I expected Nikon to be a leader. But Pentax has the opportunity to make a real mark now.

09-13-2010, 01:35 PM   #20
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+1. I sold my K-x and got a T2i specifically because it offered manual video control. The 60p is also a plus for slow motion. But if Pentax can add manual video control to the K-5, I will gladly upgrade my K-7 to it.

- Jason
09-13-2010, 01:40 PM   #21
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Nikon seems, just like Pentax, to not really "get" Video. They're still companies.

I think Canon underestimated the impact the 5DII had on the market, but were quick to jump to the opportunity. Originally, the 5DII didn't offer such comprehensive video features. Only after much clamoring and hacked firmwares did Canon provide official video firmware (for which they are to be applauded).
09-13-2010, 02:48 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spongefingers Quote
According to what I've read so far, the K-5 will only do 25 or 30fps... The exclusion of a 24fps option is a bit short-sighted...The K-5 should really be able to do all these modes and more, but there's always the possibility of a firmware upgrade.
A firmware upgrade might not be an option -- that sort of low-level image processing might be done in hardware by a separate chip which has only two or three rates available. If so, there would be no way to add it via firmware.
09-13-2010, 03:17 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Good point about Sony and Panny not wanting to cannibalize their own video sales. Maybe JVC should buy Pentax from Hoya...
I think that would be an excellent pairing, and one that I would love to see.

I also think Pentax should blow everyone's minds and release a 645DV, with full manual video and audio controls, raw capture and time code support. That would show everyone. They could really start offering some lower cost, DSLR-style competition to the RED camera.

But really, two of the final firsts for HDSLRs is timecode support and raw capture. I would love to see Pentax do it first, whether in the K-5, a 645DV or new FF body. Something like that would really attract a lot of new users.

Then they could release a battery grip that was also a pre-amp with XLR inputs.

Then they could release a camera that puts your photos to market as soon as you take them, and then deposits the money straight into your bank account.

09-13-2010, 04:01 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by alexeyga Quote
Although video features are getting better, there's still a grain of salt in it.... no 60fps... Damn manufacturers are always leaving something to make sure that the stupid consumer buys the next generation... and next... and next.....
Ha ha! Good one! Talking about "stupid consumers" while bemoaning the lack of something that didn't even exist last year. Great sarcasm!
09-13-2010, 04:01 PM   #25
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And then it could cost $ several thousand.
Would you still buy it or go with a real camcorder? Cause no one in their right mind would develop some killer VDSLR and give it away for peanuts.
Maybe it is just me but the SLR ergonomics just does not cut it as a camcorder.

Last edited by Ex Finn.; 09-13-2010 at 04:09 PM.
09-13-2010, 04:32 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I also think Pentax should blow everyone's minds and release a 645DV, with full manual video and audio controls, raw capture and time code support.
Perhaps an interesting idea. But are there any sensors available out there?
09-13-2010, 05:18 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spongefingers Quote
According to what I've read so far, the K-5 will only do 25 or 30fps.
The exclusion of a 24fps option is a bit short-sighted, considering that the Canon 7D can do 1080p at 24/25/30fps, and 720p at 50/60fps...
The K-5 should really be able to do all these modes and more, but there's always the possibility of a firmware upgrade. What would be really good is being able to select an arbitrary frame rate value (e.g. from 5 to 100fps.) That would be a unique and useful feature (to some) that would set it apart from the rest.
QuoteOriginally posted by infosyn Quote
A firmware upgrade might not be an option -- that sort of low-level image processing might be done in hardware by a separate chip which has only two or three rates available. If so, there would be no way to add it via firmware.

The famous "G13" hack used with the Panasonic GH1 enables this sort of thing to be done!!

It enables the GH1 to do 1080p at 24/25fps native. It also has modified bit rates to remove the "mud" that you get with AVCHD fast motion. The hack can up the rate from 17Mbps to 40Mbps or even 50Mbps.

And unlike the Canons, the GH1 does full time AF.

If Pentax can come up with this sort of video performance, it will make a killing!!!!
09-13-2010, 06:19 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fototim Quote
Perhaps an interesting idea. But are there any sensors available out there?
I highly doubt it. Unless of course it's something the Pentax is actually working on developing with someone. It's not the sort of thing that would just be laying around, waiting to be used by someone...
09-13-2010, 06:33 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I think that would be an excellent pairing, and one that I would love to see.

I also think Pentax should blow everyone's minds and release a 645DV, with full manual video and audio controls, raw capture and time code support. That would show everyone. They could really start offering some lower cost, DSLR-style competition to the RED camera.

But really, two of the final firsts for HDSLRs is timecode support and raw capture. I would love to see Pentax do it first, whether in the K-5, a 645DV or new FF body. Something like that would really attract a lot of new users.

Then they could release a battery grip that was also a pre-amp with XLR inputs.

Then they could release a camera that puts your photos to market as soon as you take them, and then deposits the money straight into your bank account.
The 645D has a big CCD sensor - no chance of video with those. Even if it did have a video-capable sensor, it would have worse heat buildup issues than smaller sensor cameras. Large-sensor, dedicated video cameras have specialised systems dedicated to cooling the sensor.

An XLR bettery grip is a wonderful idea - this kind of thing ought to be developed for current HDSLRs. Decent on-board audio quality would be very welcome, considering how much these cameras have taken off over the past couple of years. Mini-XLR sockets would be nice.
Oh, that and addressing rolling shutter, Moiré and aliasing issues..!

QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
The famous "G13" hack used with the Panasonic GH1 enables this sort of thing to be done!!

It enables the GH1 to do 1080p at 24/25fps native. It also has modified bit rates to remove the "mud" that you get with AVCHD fast motion. The hack can up the rate from 17Mbps to 40Mbps or even 50Mbps.

And unlike the Canons, the GH1 does full time AF.

If Pentax can come up with this sort of video performance, it will make a killing!!!!
Firmware hacks are certainly useful things. The more that camera companies take these hacks seriously, the better things will get, and quicker. Plus the cinematographer-types among us will be generally happier with their lot.

One useful new feature could be a utility that benchmarks the write speed of an inserted memory card, so helping to select a maximum video bitrate to best match its capabilities.
09-13-2010, 07:56 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Spongefingers Quote
Oh, that and addressing rolling shutter, Moiré and aliasing issues..!
Oh right. And those...
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