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09-14-2010, 01:18 AM   #31
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A special grip for video functions only would be a pretty amazing idea. I wonder if there would be some way of putting a follow focus device on it? Maybe there could be a socket that transmits focus information so that an external follow focus wheel could be added. That would be awesome.

09-14-2010, 03:19 AM   #32
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25 fps (or 50 pfs) is very usefull outside the US. The frequency of the power grid in most parts of the world is 50Hz and at 30 fps you can see the light "pumping" when using neon, low-energy bulbs or any other kind of gas discharge light source.
09-14-2010, 04:29 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
I also think Pentax should blow everyone's minds and release a 645DV, with full manual video and audio controls, raw capture and time code support. That would show everyone. They could really start offering some lower cost, DSLR-style competition to the RED camera.

But really, two of the final firsts for HDSLRs is timecode support and raw capture. I would love to see Pentax do it first, whether in the K-5, a 645DV or new FF body. Something like that would really attract a lot of new users.
I think this comment underestimates the current problems with still image sensors in video. First of course, medium format CCDs can't do video. Second, the sensors have too many pixels to read out'em all and (with a possible exception of Panasonic) don't do full hardware pixel binning to overcome this. The image quality in video therefore is somewhat noisy and artefact loaden. Third, the shutter rolls too slowly. Timecode support and raw capture may be an often requested feature. But only because it is easy to do doesn't mean that it should be considered to be an important feature. If the other problems are solved, then yes ...

RED solved most of the above problems and justifies their premium price.

QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
A special grip for video functions only would be a pretty amazing idea. I wonder if there would be some way of putting a follow focus device on it? Maybe there could be a socket that transmits focus information so that an external follow focus wheel could be added. That would be awesome.
Of course, the camera vendor would have many more options.

It could add a focus protocol, microphone socket and an HDMI port to the grip contacts. So, the body firmware would drive follow focus via the silent focus motor, and the grip could contain an electronic viewfinder (with an eyepiece) connected via HDMI and its own high end microphone. Together with additional buttons and screws to attach a pistol for another hand or a shoulder rag. Not to forget a power zoom button and silent zoom motors..

The fact that such a video grip isn't released with any of the higher end video dSLR cameras is surprising

Last edited by falconeye; 09-14-2010 at 04:35 AM.
09-14-2010, 04:48 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Of course, the camera vendor would have many more options.

It could add a focus protocol, microphone socket and an HDMI port to the grip contacts. So, the body firmware would drive follow focus via the silent focus motor, and the grip could contain an electronic viewfinder (with an eyepiece) connected via HDMI and its own high end microphone. Together with additional buttons and screws to attach a pistol for another hand or a shoulder rag. Not to forget a power zoom button and silent zoom motors..

The fact that such a video grip isn't released with any of the higher end video dSLR cameras is surprising
Designing a bus for the grip to communicate with the camera and redisigning the hardware in the camera to allow that would be a significant engineering effort.

Especially getting an external HDMI plug for viewfinder would be quite an achievement.

Those are not bad ideas to tell the truth, but not easy to implement.

Anyway, to me like a camera phone will never replace a real camera, a still camera will never replace a video camera, because of the form factor and the spec you need to prioritize.

To me the real "killer feature" would be to have a K-mount designed Video camera with all the wistles and bells of a video camera, APSC sensor (later 35mm) and K-mount lenses. Such a camera would still be able to take still pictures, but all the electronic would be optimised for video at the highest frame rate and resolution (4K maybe if properly made)

Pentax has no business in video like Panasonic, Sony or Canon. So making it would bring them to a new market while limiting some risks (mostly same system as the still cameras)

09-14-2010, 05:34 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Designing a bus for the grip to communicate with the camera and redisigning the hardware in the camera to allow that would be a significant engineering effort.

Especially getting an external HDMI plug for viewfinder would be quite an achievement.

Those are not bad ideas to tell the truth, but not easy to implement.
Not true. The "not easy to implement" part I mean

The HDMI port is already there on K-7 and K-5 and a communication bus for some buttons is there as well. A focus protocol would be particularly simple for the fly-by-wire lenses like Olympus has because then, the body can already receive focus commands thru the lens mount. But it really shouldn't be difficult to implement in any case.

An electronic viewfinder with an eyepiece attaching to the hot shoe and HDMI could be on the market today. It would attach to the K-7 and most other recent enthusiast dSLRs. This makes me wonder how many are really ever using video on their dSLRs...
09-14-2010, 05:39 AM   #36
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Falk is absolutely right. Manufacturers haven't realized the benefits of accessory grips in a variety of situations. They basically just use them as storage room for batteries and buttons.

They could provide power to the flash for instance, giving both faster recycling time and better balance (because one wouldn't need batteries in the flash). Canon already have a WiFi grip AFAIK. There could be wireless file transfer, GPS, camera coupling... all kinds of stuff.
09-14-2010, 07:54 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
An electronic viewfinder with an eyepiece attaching to the hot shoe and HDMI could be on the market today. It would attach to the K-7 and most other recent enthusiast dSLRs. This makes me wonder how many are really ever using video on their dSLRs...
Well, the Hoodman Loupe and the Zacuto Z-finder already have this covered sort of, with magnifying loupes that connect to the rear LCDs. And if you need more than that, there are plenty of 7" HDMI field monitors, and I think most of them can be hooked into the hotshoe.
09-14-2010, 07:59 AM   #38
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Yeah, and the K-7 has poor HDMI out (low res, switching aspect ratio). Also, those monitors usually cost a lot of money, and I wouldn't really trust my hot shoe with them. They're kinda heavy.

09-14-2010, 08:16 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
Yeah, and the K-7 has poor HDMI out (low res, switching aspect ratio). Also, those monitors usually cost a lot of money, and I wouldn't really trust my hot shoe with them. They're kinda heavy.
I didn't know that about the K-7 HDMI out. That's a bummer. Hope they fix it in the K-5. What aspect ration to it output to?
09-14-2010, 08:19 AM   #40
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4:3 in all modes (including movie viewing) except movie recording, where it's 16:9. IIRC.

This can be unnerving because some cheaper screens cannot switch aspect ratio automatically. Dunno about the more expensive ones.
09-14-2010, 08:34 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The fact that such a video grip isn't released with any of the higher end video dSLR cameras is surprising
But I think it's only a matter of time, given what is out there.


QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Anyway, to me like a camera phone will never replace a real camera, a still camera will never replace a video camera, because of the form factor and the spec you need to prioritize.
Never? But it's already happened. DSLRs are "replacing" video cameras in some markets and for some uses. Care to guess what clients these and other companies serve?

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09-14-2010, 05:14 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by dnas Quote
The famous "G13" hack used with the Panasonic GH1 enables this sort of thing to be done!!

It enables the GH1 to do 1080p at 24/25fps native. It also has modified bit rates to remove the "mud" that you get with AVCHD fast motion. The hack can up the rate from 17Mbps to 40Mbps or even 50Mbps.

And unlike the Canons, the GH1 does full time AF.

If Pentax can come up with this sort of video performance, it will make a killing!!!!


QuoteOriginally posted by Spongefingers Quote
Firmware hacks are certainly useful things. The more that camera companies take these hacks seriously, the better things will get, and quicker. Plus the cinematographer-types among us will be generally happier with their lot.

One useful new feature could be a utility that benchmarks the write speed of an inserted memory card, so helping to select a maximum video bitrate to best match its capabilities.

THAT would be a brilliant feature!!!!!
09-14-2010, 05:22 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
Well, the Hoodman Loupe and the Zacuto Z-finder already have this covered sort of, with magnifying loupes that connect to the rear LCDs. And if you need more than that, there are plenty of 7" HDMI field monitors, and I think most of them can be hooked into the hotshoe.
I didn't mean a monitor but a true EVF like the VF-2


QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
Yeah, and the K-7 has poor HDMI out (low res, switching aspect ratio). Also, those monitors usually cost a lot of money, and I wouldn't really trust my hot shoe with them. They're kinda heavy.
I wouldn't say so. I think the quality is first class. It's just that you get exactly what you have on the rear LCD. E.g., the 640x480 rear screen's resolution is doubled and output as 1280x960 in 1080p mode. Of course, you have black bars in both 3:2 and 16:9. But you can output in 720p too.

My blog has a video of HDMI output in action

QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
4:3 in all modes (including movie viewing) except movie recording, where it's 16:9. IIRC.

This can be unnerving because some cheaper screens cannot switch aspect ratio automatically. Dunno about the more expensive ones.
Again, I think that the ratio must not switch because like the rear screen, you rather get black bars.
09-15-2010, 01:22 AM   #44
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Maybe my cheap external screen played tricks with me. I haven't found the time yet to try HDMI out on a display that can handle different resolutions more gracefully (and that shows timing information). I'll see if I can do that tomorrow.
09-16-2010, 05:11 AM   #45
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Four more days to see how things really shake out. I hope Pentax has put the K-5 into the hands of some good shooters. I look forward to seeing early results.

The results from the Nikon D7000 leave me very hopeful. That sensor seems to do good things. Very pleased that it will be in the K-5.

Hoping it also means that the K-5 will have true 24p.
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