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09-16-2010, 02:51 PM   #46
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I'm sorry but if the k-5's KILLER FEATURE is just full manual mode I'll probably switch to canon. I really feel full manual mode should have been in the k-7 and could be implemented via an update. Will we see this or not who knows? If not I'll feel a little miffed (giving the k-7 can be tricked into a kind of manual mode by switching to Av or Tv and using the exposure lock then switching to movie mode)

If pentax are going to do full manual mode I'd like to see them perhaps do above HD video maybe 2K or 4K and other frame rates to enable high speed footage.

Or maybe different ways to show exactly what is pin sharp during video mode (like when using an old manual lens in a photo mode you get a star light up in the viewfinder)

That would be a killer feature and something the competition doesn't have.

09-16-2010, 04:06 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by dopeytree Quote
I'm sorry but if the k-5's KILLER FEATURE is just full manual mode I'll probably switch to canon.
Er, why? Canon doesn't have this feature, right?
09-18-2010, 05:14 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by dopeytree Quote
I'm sorry but if the k-5's KILLER FEATURE is just full manual mode I'll probably switch to canon. I really feel full manual mode should have been in the k-7 and could be implemented via an update. Will we see this or not who knows? If not I'll feel a little miffed (giving the k-7 can be tricked into a kind of manual mode by switching to Av or Tv and using the exposure lock then switching to movie mode)

If pentax are going to do full manual mode I'd like to see them perhaps do above HD video maybe 2K or 4K and other frame rates to enable high speed footage.

Or maybe different ways to show exactly what is pin sharp during video mode (like when using an old manual lens in a photo mode you get a star light up in the viewfinder)

That would be a killer feature and something the competition doesn't have.
Forget 2K or 4K, just get 1080p60 and power zoom lenses.
09-18-2010, 08:44 AM   #49
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2k/4k is over-rated. It's really not necassary for most applications; HD is more than sufficient for most things. Keep in mind that unlike photography, with video you are limited in your final delivery by the contraints of HD (1920x1080), so unless you are going out to film or digital 4k projectors there's far less reason for higher resolution. Plus, 2k is only a little sharper than full HD. It would be much more worthwhile to actually focus on getting sharper images and cleaner processing (less aliasing/moire) in the current HD modes. At the moment the 1080p modes on the DSLR's are not even close to resolving 1920x1080 pixels.

09-18-2010, 09:51 AM   #50
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My thinking was pentax could create a niche appealing to cinematographers etc with offering 2k or 4k it might pull people over who would otherwise go for a canon 5d mkII being full frame etc I'm talking in regard to just video.

Canon do full manual and have done for a while.

I don't care for zoom lenses much. Fast primes all the way!!

Last edited by dopeytree; 09-18-2010 at 09:57 AM.
09-18-2010, 09:59 AM   #51
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2k or 4k will happen when and if the sensor maker - read: Sony - has sensors that support this. There's no reason to believe Sony would enable those features for the competition and not use them themselves. If they fear they'd be cannibalizing their pro video/cine stuff too much, there won't be DSLRs with 2k or 4k at sub-10k prices at least until the competition (read: Canon, Panasonic - invested in pro video gear themselves) force them.

There are other, easier to obtain and more important things we could wish for like full res HDMI out, swivel screen, manual controls over everything, timecode syncing, focus peaking, stepless aperture, motor zoom, proper AF in video...
09-18-2010, 03:57 PM   #52
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I don't know to much about the technical side of video but I thought it was more to do with the processing power not the sensors. If the sensor can take 14mp photos it can read out the 2k and 4k easily I would have thought.

even if not I wonder if the sony chip and pentax can do 60fps or even 120fps that'd be interesting.

All I want is for pentax to do something different like the slogan. They have the weatherproofing and nice design. It looks like we have a low noise sensor coming but what else. Faster autofocusing is good may bring more outdoors action people into the pentax brand.

If pentax released more wr/da* prime lenses they'd also have a very good advantage over the competitors for cinematographers to work in wet/damp conditions
09-18-2010, 06:40 PM   #53
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Help me out here.....I'm just a fairly new shooter of any type, got my first DSLR about 5 years ago, and I have almost no interest in Video. If the K5 has no video at all I will be tickled pink, but I know it will.
I'm not looking for trouble, seriously, but aren't there plenty of good Video cameras out there already...I see a ton of them almost everywhere I go...and they are cheap and apparently very good. Are they really necessary on a DSLR? Don't they just take up space for features that might make a DSLR better at what it does best, while adding to the cost?

I said, seriously, and if you can give me some good answers I might see it differently, I am not set in stone on this, but I sure don't understand why someone would not s just go out and buy the Video Camera they want?
Best Regards!

09-18-2010, 07:18 PM   #54
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VDSLRs allow a Cinema like look with shallow depth of field; camcorders don't. Same as with DSLR vs compact digicam. There are of course profesional large-sensor motion cameras which are much better suited to video shooting in terms of both features, ergonomics, and output. But these easily cost in the five- to six-figures, which is why VDSLRs have become so popular among indie filmers and as secondary cameras for large TV productions. One "House" episode was filmed with the Canon 5D II entirely, IIRC.

Video increases a DSLR's price by an insignificant amount, as most of what's needed for it is needed for liveview anyway. And then of course there's the marketing need to not fall behind on the feature list, meaning a DSLR without video may even be more expensive than one with, because of lower sales (which increases development cost per unit sold).

dopeytree: Yes, the sensors can capture at much higher resolution, but you can't get the data out of them fast enough. Which is also why you won't see 60 or 120 fps until the Sensor supports it, when you'll probably see it from everybody who uses that sensor.

Last edited by fzwo; 09-18-2010 at 07:31 PM.
09-19-2010, 01:25 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
VDSLRs allow a Cinema like look with shallow depth of field; camcorders don't.
That was true in the past but isn't anymore. Sony's NEX VG10E changed it.

That's a perfect example that future developments should be guessed from a technology point of view, not from extrapolating a snapshot of the market. There is really no point in having a mirror in a video camera

I like video in dSLRs. But the feature will become a gimmick for SLRs as serious usage will move to dedicated devices. Gone are the days of SLR video rigs. Sony still shares the sensor with NEX still cameras. But that's not perfect either. A dedicated video sensor would have larger pixels (and 8.294.400 of them) with a modified Bayer layout allowing better hardware binning. And video needs no more shallow DoF than offered by APSC with large aperture lenses.
09-19-2010, 06:00 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Help me out here.....I'm just a fairly new shooter of any type, got my first DSLR about 5 years ago, and I have almost no interest in Video.
This horse bolted a long time ago. All DSLRs will have video from now on, until the species is extinct. I am sure there are many other features you do not use as well: multiple exposure, intervalometer, etc. So long as they do not get in your way, I don't know how they can be regretted, since someone else needs/wants them.
09-19-2010, 06:13 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
That was true in the past but isn't anymore. Sony's NEX VG10E changed it.
Yeah, only that the VG10E isn't really a proper camcorder, IMHO. It doesn't have power zoom, it is imbalanced with the superzoom lens in front of it, it doesnt have any kind of focus confirmation, it has no zebras or blinking highlights. And at least some of these are inherent in the system, meaning there won't be a camera that does all of this (making it a proper video camera) in the Sony NEX v1 System. Others are just shortcomings of this particular model, probably because it was designed more by their stills than their video division.

It's an EVIL still camera in a camcorder's housing. Of course, it is an indication of where things in the upper amateur and lower pro market are heading (again, IMHO). I think every proper SLD system is going to include at least one movie-optimized body like the VG10E. But it's not a much more competent movie camera than a proper VDSLR. Maybe even less so than a Sony A55v.

You're right, of course, that a pure video camera doesn't need a mirror, and has no use for an optical viewfinder. But video in a DSLR, for many amateurs and "prosumers" is also about having a very high quality video camera along with their very high quality stills camera, without twice the expense, twice the weight, twice the bulk. In any case, video in DSLRs is here to stay, and going to get better.
09-19-2010, 11:28 AM   #58
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Sony's VG10 unfortunately didn't change anything. Slightly exaggerated you could say they just dressed a NEX 5 into a camcorder dress. Specs and features disappointed a lot of videographers as it doesn't even provide what some DSLRs offer at less than half the price.

I too don't believe video to disappear from DSLRs or mirrorless stills systems, I think it will keep improving for quite some time and end up in (specialized) hybrids rather than strictly devided stills / video devices.
09-19-2010, 11:34 AM   #59
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I'm very intriged to see how good the stils from the red scarlet: http://red.cachefly.net/N30/Nov30th.jpg

will compare to other cameras. I imagine the dynamics will be brilliant not too mention the price too!

I mention this as the guy behind red has mentioned that he thinks his next lot of cameras will shake up the industry. Nearly all newspaper jobs these days require some sort of video along with other types of jobs I wonder how long the stills photographer will be paid for just stills. If you can hire someone who shoots video and photos then I imagine you'd do that.

The main advantages of video on dslrs is the low light performance and depth of field. When this is coupled with the great range of lenses available you have a very accessible way to create movies etc

Last edited by dopeytree; 09-19-2010 at 11:40 AM.
09-19-2010, 12:16 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
Yeah, only that the VG10E isn't really a proper camcorder, IMHO. It doesn't have power zoom, it is imbalanced with the superzoom lens in front of it, it doesnt have any kind of focus confirmation, it has no zebras or blinking highlights.
You know what I meant.

All the shortcomings you mention are more likely addressed for the dedicated video versions. Moreover, I expect the EVIL and high end camcorder categories to fuse (as far as the lens mount is concerned), with some models more dedicated to video and others more dedicated to still.

E.g., who says Sony won't release a NEX power zoom with follow focus knob?

There will be some serious usage for full frame VDSLRs until the arrival of full frame EVILs though.
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