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09-13-2010, 11:39 AM   #1
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Which to buy: K-r or K-5?

I know the K-5 isn't out yet. I know that the specs are, um, speculative. I'm willing to assume that the rumored specs will turn out to be pretty close to the truth.

Now, I'm trying to plan my fall purchases. And it's boiling down to a choice between the K-r and the K-5. Right now, I already have a K20D, K10D, and an old *ist DS.

Obvious advantages of the K-5 (as currerntly rumored):
  1. Support for two SD cards (yay!)
  2. Two e-dials
  3. Bigger files (16.x MP)


Advantage of the K-r:
  1. Costs half what the K-5 will cost.
  2. Smaller files (12.x MP)


Let me explain my lists. I'm not sure what I think about the file sizes. The K10D's 14.6 MP or whatever it is really feels about right. And I seldom notice any reason to complain about the size of my K10D files, either. So to be honest, I should have omitted file size from my list of comparative advantages, because I can happily go either way.

VIDEO DOES NOT MATTER TO ME. At the present time, I could not care less, to be honest. I wish they'd release a less expensive camera without video.

I have said in this forum, probably more than once, that I'll never buy another camera without two e-dials. I shoot mostly in M mode and having those two dials is really nice. But I'm prepared to take that statement back, if necessary. If the K-r gave me most of what I need at half the price of the K-5 I could learn to live with one e-dial. Who knows, maybe I'd start shooting in Av mode. ;-)

I suppose K-5 has hyperprogram and hypermanual, and K-r probably does not. Not a huge deal for me. The K-r at least has program shift in P, doesn't it?

Also couldn't care less about the K-5's advantage in terms of frames per second. Not an issue for me.

The thing that matters to me most about either or both of these cameras—the reason I'll buy one or the other—is that they'll give me another stop or two advantage over my K20D when it comes to shooting at higher ISOs. As far as I can tell, the K-5 and the K-r do improve on the K20D and even on the K-x, and improve on it significantly. But I think the K-r and K-5 have the same high-ISO capability and I'll bet that the K-r will produce pictures that are, at worst, no noisier than the K-5's, and at best, possibly better than the K-5's (just as the K-x did a better job here than the K-7). So although this is the most important issue for me, unless I've misunderstood or misread the specs, or unless Pentax surprises me, it's a wash on the high-ISO low-light performance issue.

So what's that leave me? The big thing that leaps out at me is the K-r's price advantage.

What, if anything, am I missing? Given what I said above about what matters to me and what doesn't, anybody want to tell me why I should hold out for a K-r instead of placing an order now for a K-5?

Will

09-13-2010, 11:41 AM   #2
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k-r will be a great update over k20d.

However, IMO if someone who already owns k-x, k-5 would be a more logical choice.
09-13-2010, 11:44 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by yusuf Quote
k-r will be a great update over k20d.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Just wanted to give somebody the chance to explain why I'm wrong.


QuoteQuote:
However, IMO if someone who already owns k-x, k-5 would be a more logical choice.
Why do you say that? Because the K-r isn't different enough from the K-x?

Will
09-13-2010, 11:44 AM   #4
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Get the K-5. You've used the higher-end bodies in the past, so you'd likely miss all the external controls should you buy a K-r. Would you have rather gotten a K-7, or a K-x? (k-7 => get a k-5, k-x => get a k-r)

Both the K-r and the K-5 will have stellar high-iso performance and improved AF, so regardless of which you choose, it'll be an upgrade. If you get a K-5, though, you can always shoot at 10Mp if you want smaller files

Also (and this is just my personal speculation), I would say that its HIGHLY unlikely that the K-5 will cost $1600 like people are claiming. As it is essentially just an improved K-7 (and uses the same casing), Pentax didn't have to devote much effort to redesigning the exterior, thus saving a lot of money. Therefore, I'd guess that the K-5 will cost $1200-$1400, body-only.


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09-13-2010, 11:53 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
If you get a K-5, though, you can always shoot at 10Mp if you want smaller files
Whoa. I missed that. Are you saying that the K-5 is expected to have the ability to show 10MP raw files? Or would I have to shoot jpeg for that?

(I ask because, although I'm not sure, I'm under the impression that some of the higher end cameras from Nikon and Canon actually let you shoot raw at a lower res, if you want smaller files.)


QuoteQuote:
Also (and this is just my personal speculation), I would say that its HIGHLY unlikely that the K-5 will cost $1600 like people are claiming. As it is essentially just an improved K-7 (and uses the same casing), Pentax didn't have to devote much effort to redesigning the exterior, thus saving a lot of money. Therefore, I'd guess that the K-5 will cost $1200-$1400, body-only.
Is anybody daring to guess when the K-5 will actually be available for purchase in the USA?

Thanks, Adam.

Will
09-13-2010, 12:03 PM   #6
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At this point, i don't believe any of the rumours coming out. Too many this is it, followed a week later that its false.

But i'm facing the same issue you are. I'd like to have the better iso performance sooner rather than later. But cameras are still changing so rapidly, I'd hate to put such a big wad of cash into the K5.

Issues that are important to me that will come out after a serious review:
a. how much better is the ISO
b. a shutter cable socket on the Kr?
c. how loud is the shutter on the Kr and K5, my K20 is pretty decent on this
d. how easy is it to change shutter speeds and iso on the Kr?
e. will Kr have focus adjustments, yeah i know what the rumours say, but i'm looking for fact :-) Any modern SLR should have focus adjustments - anything less requires one to go hack the firmware which is BS.

If the performance and features aren't there on the Kr, i'm likely to wait another year, i don't need the video.
09-13-2010, 12:44 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP:
I could learn to live with one e-dial. Who knows, maybe I'd start shooting in Av mode. ;-)


Will
You can still shoot in full manual mode with just one e-dial too by the way, it just means that if you want to control the aperture you have to hold down the av button while scrolling the wheel
09-13-2010, 12:47 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
You can still shoot in full manual mode with just one e-dial too by the way, it just means that if you want to control the aperture you have to hold down the av button while scrolling the wheel

Oh, I know how to do it! Works the same way on my *ist DS—and on every other SLR I've owned in the last few decades. I just don't LIKE doing it that way.

Will

09-13-2010, 12:52 PM   #9
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Hi Will:
I'll comment on your post herewith in "blue" below ...

QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I know the K-5 isn't out yet. I know that the specs are, um, speculative. I'm willing to assume that the rumored specs will turn out to be pretty close to the truth.

Now, I'm trying to plan my fall purchases. And it's boiling down to a choice between the K-r and the K-5. Right now, I already have a K20D, K10D, and an old *ist DS.

Obvious advantages of the K-5 (as currerntly rumored):
  1. Support for two SD cards (yay!)
  2. Two e-dials
  3. Bigger files (16.x MP)
Two SD cards would be a phenomenal addition. Now would one be able to choose if one SD card "takes" the JPEG's while the other could be for RAW files only? I wonder if Pentax would have thought of giving some latitude to the user?
Two dials: I already have that on the K20D and the K7 and I wouldn't go without it.
Larger file size ... well, with two SD cards maybe that wouldn't be such an issue other than cramming your hard drive a bit faster.

Advantage of the K-r:
  1. Costs half what the K-5 will cost.
    OK, that's a BIG issue. Nobody really wants to spend more if it is not absolutely necessary.
  2. Smaller files (12.x MP)


Let me explain my lists. I'm not sure what I think about the file sizes. The K10D's 14.6 MP or whatever it is really feels about right. And I seldom notice any reason to complain about the size of my K10D files, either. So to be honest, I should have omitted file size from my list of comparative advantages, because I can happily go either way.

VIDEO DOES NOT MATTER TO ME. At the present time, I could not care less, to be honest. I wish they'd release a less expensive camera without video.
It doesn' to me either but it seems that a lot of folks here want this video thing. I agree that the K5 price could have been a tad lower without it but, as the world turns, so does the "trends". .. and we have to go with the "package".

I have said in this forum, probably more than once, that I'll never buy another camera without two e-dials. I shoot mostly in M mode and having those two dials is really nice. But I'm prepared to take that statement back, if necessary. If the K-r gave me most of what I need at half the price of the K-5 I could learn to live with one e-dial. Who knows, maybe I'd start shooting in Av mode. ;-)

I suppose K-5 has hyperprogram and hypermanual, and K-r probably does not. Not a huge deal for me. The K-r at least has program shift in P, doesn't it?

Also couldn't care less about the K-5's advantage in terms of frames per second. Not an issue for me.

The thing that matters to me most about either or both of these cameras—the reason I'll buy one or the other—is that they'll give me another stop or two advantage over my K20D when it comes to shooting at higher ISOs. As far as I can tell, the K-5 and the K-r do improve on the K20D and even on the K-x, and improve on it significantly. But I think the K-r and K-5 have the same high-ISO capability and I'll bet that the K-r will produce pictures that are, at worst, no noisier than the K-5's, and at best, possibly better than the K-5's (just as the K-x did a better job here than the K-7). So although this is the most important issue for me, unless I've misunderstood or misread the specs, or unless Pentax surprises me, it's a wash on the high-ISO low-light performance issue.
If that is the case, that the K-r and the K5 will have the SAME high ISO handling ... that is really starting to annoy me. Why would I pay much more for the K5 if one of the major reasons I would switch is that I want (need) better high ISO useage?
I agree again on that point, Will.
The only other thing for me to consider the K5, other than ISO issues, would be the better/faster AF.


So what's that leave me? The big thing that leaps out at me is the K-r's price advantage.

What, if anything, am I missing? Given what I said above about what matters to me and what doesn't, anybody want to tell me why I should hold out for a K-r instead of placing an order now for a K-5?

I think you got to the point indeed. Frankly, what you've just said in your post applies to me as well .... and now I am certainly starting to think: "Let's wait until good, real reviews from real users come out and we shall see"!!


Will
Cheers!

JP
09-13-2010, 12:56 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Get the K-5. You've used the higher-end bodies in the past, so you'd likely miss all the external controls should you buy a K-r. Would you have rather gotten a K-7, or a K-x? (k-7 => get a k-5, k-x => get a k-r)

Both the K-r and the K-5 will have stellar high-iso performance and improved AF, so regardless of which you choose, it'll be an upgrade. If you get a K-5, though, you can always shoot at 10Mp if you want smaller files

Also (and this is just my personal speculation), I would say that its HIGHLY unlikely that the K-5 will cost $1600 like people are claiming. As it is essentially just an improved K-7 (and uses the same casing), Pentax didn't have to devote much effort to redesigning the exterior, thus saving a lot of money. Therefore, I'd guess that the K-5 will cost $1200-$1400, body-only.

I don't quite understand this bit about wanting to shoot at 10Mp ... as someone else asked: JPEG only or would that be feasible in RAW as well?

And ... one more item: if the K5 "is just" (quote) an improved K7 ... what the heck?

Anyways, we will just have to wait until you give it a try (the K5) and hopefully we shall also see some comparisons with the K-r ... then we'll be able to tell.

Cheers for now.

JP
09-13-2010, 12:56 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I know the K-5 isn't out yet. I know that the specs are, um, speculative. I'm willing to assume that the rumored specs will turn out to be pretty close to the truth.

Now, I'm trying to plan my fall purchases. And it's boiling down to a choice between the K-r and the K-5. Right now, I already have a K20D, K10D, and an old *ist DS.

Obvious advantages of the K-5 (as currerntly rumored):
  1. Support for two SD cards (yay!)
  2. Two e-dials
  3. Bigger files (16.x MP)


Advantage of the K-r:
  1. Costs half what the K-5 will cost.
  2. Smaller files (12.x MP)


Let me explain my lists. I'm not sure what I think about the file sizes. The K10D's 14.6 MP or whatever it is really feels about right. And I seldom notice any reason to complain about the size of my K10D files, either. So to be honest, I should have omitted file size from my list of comparative advantages, because I can happily go either way.

VIDEO DOES NOT MATTER TO ME. At the present time, I could not care less, to be honest. I wish they'd release a less expensive camera without video.

I have said in this forum, probably more than once, that I'll never buy another camera without two e-dials. I shoot mostly in M mode and having those two dials is really nice. But I'm prepared to take that statement back, if necessary. If the K-r gave me most of what I need at half the price of the K-5 I could learn to live with one e-dial. Who knows, maybe I'd start shooting in Av mode. ;-)

I suppose K-5 has hyperprogram and hypermanual, and K-r probably does not. Not a huge deal for me. The K-r at least has program shift in P, doesn't it?

Also couldn't care less about the K-5's advantage in terms of frames per second. Not an issue for me.

The thing that matters to me most about either or both of these cameras—the reason I'll buy one or the other—is that they'll give me another stop or two advantage over my K20D when it comes to shooting at higher ISOs. As far as I can tell, the K-5 and the K-r do improve on the K20D and even on the K-x, and improve on it significantly. But I think the K-r and K-5 have the same high-ISO capability and I'll bet that the K-r will produce pictures that are, at worst, no noisier than the K-5's, and at best, possibly better than the K-5's (just as the K-x did a better job here than the K-7). So although this is the most important issue for me, unless I've misunderstood or misread the specs, or unless Pentax surprises me, it's a wash on the high-ISO low-light performance issue.

So what's that leave me? The big thing that leaps out at me is the K-r's price advantage.

What, if anything, am I missing? Given what I said above about what matters to me and what doesn't, anybody want to tell me why I should hold out for a K-r instead of placing an order now for a K-5?

Will
Hmmm, you have not had the K-7 then. I guess so you are safe to go with K-r, but if you use 100% VF for a while, I'm not sure you were asking this question ;o)
09-13-2010, 12:58 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
You can still shoot in full manual mode with just one e-dial too by the way, it just means that if you want to control the aperture you have to hold down the av button while scrolling the wheel
Yeah but ... once you're used to use two dials ... do you really want to go "one dial only"?
Not me.

JP
09-13-2010, 01:02 PM   #13
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The viewfinder in the K-5 will be the same as in the K-7 - a pentaprism viewfinder with 100% coverage, this is actually more coverage than your current K10D and K20D bodies.
The viewfinder in the K-r will have similar size and coverage as the K-x, and it is clearly smaller and inferior to the K10D viewfinder. I keep my K10D because of the better viewfinder compared to the K-x.

K-5 will be a nice upgrade from the K10D and K20D, offering essentially the same functions, features and a similar user interface with HyperProgram mode - but better high ISO performance and better autofocus performance, better white balance and many other things plus a better weather sealing, cold protected.

Now, the K-r does have advantages in high ISO performance over the K10D and K20D, and it does have a newer autofocus system, but user interface and ergonomics is on a lower level - it is more menu driven and the fewer buttons and less direct access may drive you nuts compared to what you are used to with the K10D and K20D.

As I said, I have both the K10D and the K-x because they complement each other. The superior ergonomics, viewfinder, operatibility, weather sealing and build quality makes me still using the K10D for many images. I use my K-x mostly for "family fun".
09-13-2010, 01:11 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The viewfinder in the K-5 will be the same as in the K-7 - a pentaprism viewfinder with 100% coverage, this is actually more coverage than your current K10D and K20D bodies.
What does this mean, exactly? I've never understood this well. There seem to be three things to consider in a finder:
  1. pentamirror vs pentaprism (latter is better)
  2. Coverage
  3. Magnification

I understand the first one but not the other two. I think coverage is whether the finder shows me everything that the resulting photo will include, on the edges of the frame. Is that right? To be honest, I'm happy to have a little latitude here, that is, I'm happy if the camera actually captures a wee bit more than I can see. I can crop a little.

But what about magnification?

Will
09-13-2010, 01:13 PM   #15
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Can't you wait 7-8 more days?
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