Ned Bunell...

Blue · 11-10-2010, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by Christopher M.W.T

It's annoying that when people had the chance to ask Ned about better accessories, tethering, manual video they simply forgot *sigh*

Good point. It would be interesting to see if he knows anything about the DA tc prototype and whether or not it is going to ever go into production.

Miserere · 11-10-2010, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Good point. It would be interesting to see if he knows anything about the DA tc prototype and whether or not it is going to ever go into production.

From my recent chats with Pentax staff, I can tell you that they don't know anything. Three different staff members on two separate occasions told me the same thing: We don't know what happened with the TC and we don't know if it will ever be released.

...

**ManuH** · 11-11-2010, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by Miserere

We don't know what happened with the TC and we don't know if it will ever be released.

It's really a shame they can't get this out. This is the kind of thing that makes the Pentax system looks really bad from outside.

P.S. for coupon codes, you can share or get them at Coupon codes and discounts for 65,000 online stores! RetailMeNot.com

falconeye · 11-11-2010, 07:39 AM

Originally posted by Miserere

From my recent chats with Pentax staff, I can tell you that they don't know anything. Three different staff members on two separate occasions told me the same thing: We don't know what happened with the TC and we don't know if it will ever be released.

I cannot confirm Misere's experience.

At least the higher German executives know exactly what happened to the TC. I asked.

As a matter of fact, Pentax Europe (Hamburg in this case) requested the TC goes in production. Tokyo dismissed the wish. The internal communication between Europe and Japan seems to be such that Tokyo is convinced that the digital age with low pixel pitch sensors doesn't require a TC anymore.

At some time, our dear member zackspeed here even tried to help build up evidence that this isn't the case and that there is high interest for a TC indeed. Europe explained to Tokyo that a digitally zoomed image has not the same image quality than an image from a good prime with good TC.

Everything has been in vain. For Tokyo, a TC is a last century technology. Period.

You can get some rather emotional responses if you ask the right persons at Pentax

The fact that Misere got the answer he got tells me that the Americas didn't even care or din't want to disclose the dispute. Shame on Ned

eurostar · 11-11-2010, 07:58 AM

Well, at least, if not a TC give us a long tele, oh mighty Hoya!

Rupert · 11-11-2010, 08:07 AM

Maybe the Japanese are right? Just a thought......If you have a 50mm prime, for example, and want to range in 75mm....maybe you should be shooting with the D*50-135 instead. I am betting that at 75mm it will beat most 50mm primes with a TC? Of course, it is a larger lens......but having owned mine for a year or so, the size is nothing compared to the fine IQ it produces.
I guess we can't all be satisfied, and we all have different needs and are at different levels of shooting......I couldn't even qualify to carry the gear for a guy like Falk...so I am fairly easily satisfied with what is available, and do try to understand that others have specific needs I may never have. It would be decent if Pentax were more forthcoming with their customers, I think we could all agree to that?
Best Regards

kryss · 11-11-2010, 08:33 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

I cannot confirm Misere's experience.

At least the higher German executives know exactly what happened to the TC. I asked.

As a matter of fact, Pentax Europe (Hamburg in this case) requested the TC goes in production. Tokyo dismissed the wish. The internal communication between Europe and Japan seems to be such that Tokyo is convinced that the digital age with low pixel pitch sensors doesn't require a TC anymore.

At some time, our dear member zackspeed here even tried to help build up evidence that this isn't the case and that there is high interest for a TC indeed. Europe explained to Tokyo that a digitally zoomed image has not the same image quality than an image from a good prime with good TC.

Everything has been in vain. For Tokyo, a TC is a last century technology. Period.

You can get some rather emotional responses if you ask the right persons at Pentax

The fact that Misere got the answer he got tells me that the Americas didn't even care or din't want to disclose the dispute. Shame on Ned

Do you know IF the K5 will eventually be able to be fully tethered for studio shooting?

cfraz · 11-11-2010, 08:35 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

...Tokyo is convinced that the digital age with low pixel pitch sensors doesn't require a TC anymore.

Wow. Can Pentax have moved that far from a photographer/engineer point of view? I don't know how that kind of mindset would have led to the last 3 or 4 camera bodies they released. Maybe there is a struggle between mass-marketing-centric (by that I mean an attitude that says most of our sales are to new or non-serious photographers and we can convince them of this) management and engineering departments.

If so, that might explain why initial K5 promo materials showed highest iso of 26K vs. 51K.

**ManuH** · 11-11-2010, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Everything has been in vain. For Tokyo, a TC is a last century technology. Period.

This can be argued but OTOH it shouldn't matter. What matters is if the the TC can bring money or not. Indirectly (some people will dismiss Pentax because of this lack) or not...

wll · 11-11-2010, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by cfraz

Wow. Can Pentax have moved that far from a photographer/engineer point of view? I don't know how that kind of mindset would have led to the last 3 or 4 camera bodies they released. Maybe there is a struggle between mass-marketing-centric (by that I mean an attitude that says most of our sales are to new or non-serious photographers and we can convince them of this) management and engineering departments.

If so, that might explain why initial K5 promo materials showed highest iso of 26K vs. 51K.

Pentax marketing has always been very poor, and its a shame. I'm sure poor Ned has his hands full as Pentax Japan is in charge and they seem not to have a clue ... look at all the mistakes and ? at the introduction of the K-5 !

Not to have a TC in your line up and not to have tethering is mind blowing !!!! How is it even possible rational thought not to have tethering on a quote, un-quote "semi professional camera", one that has the best APS-C sensor in history (as of today), and is feature laden and has one of the best built bodies of anybody .... I just don't understand !

Yes, I'm a Pentax fan, Yes I'm up to my ears in K20D's and will be purchasing the K-5's when the price lowers a bit (already bought the battery grips and batteries). That being said, I still don't like the fact that a camera of this caliber cannot be tethered as of today. I have heard rumors that upcoming software will allow this and I very,very much hope it is true !

Pentax japan needs to get in touch with what is going on and what the photographers in the street are asking for. No, you can't please everyone but when your asked over and over again by multitudes of people for a product or feature, maybe you should listen.

Yes, they listened to the high ISO and DR request and hit a home run. The listened to AF and its speed complaints and again did a fine job. Now its maybe time to hit tethering and the lens line up a bit, IMHO

So much for my rant ;- )

wll

uccemebug · 11-11-2010, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by lesmore49

We maybe be sleepy but we have the best set of govt. regs in the world....note no banks went out of business here...and little...hardly, we are the second biggest (physical size) country in the world.

Population wise...we are small......but I like it that way...and it looks like many in the world want to live in Canada.

Yes, people do want to live in Canada, and with good reason (if they're weather resistant themselves). Everyone in Tokyo we've spoken to who knows something about the education systems in both countries urges us to raise our boy in Canada. I was pretty surprised but they insist that the focus on creative thinking (in Canada) rather than conformity (in Japan) is the way to go.

But my point is that internationally, no one knows Canada for creating businesses etc. If you want investment, or a trade partner to open channels, or some marketing advice, etc you go to the US not to Canada (or Denmark).

falconeye · 11-11-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Rupert

Maybe the Japanese are right?

Rupert, good point.

They are right, to a certain point.

#1 reason for a TC was to be able to compose the image on slide material (film). Last century.

#2 reason is to zoom into an image to obtain more detail. That was a valid point with a *istD. Not anymore with 90% of lenses. Last century.

#3 reason is to boost the resolution limit for the best of primes, even with a 4.7µm pitch sensor which requires lens+TC to resolve 150 lp/mm which is rather hefty. But the best lenses can do this, esp. with digital sharpening aids.

#3 is a valid reason, Tokyo should not ignore. I'm just not sure how well the countries can argue when it comes to technical detail. Them and Tokyo don't normally play in one league.

#3 is decisive at the moment where the Pentax system is restricted to 300mm and would have to grow to 500+ mm to be competitive. A 1.4x TC would help a lot.

IMHO, the TC is a no-brainer (as it is already in prototype stage) and the missing lens really is a fast focussing very sharp 500/5.6 for around $2000 (which should be the expected MSRP applying a diameter-squared price scaling formula and assuming the DA*300/4 is $1400). Screw drive plus ring motor SDM.

I really think such a lens would sell well. I got the impression that Pentax would build and sell such a lens if they can seriously expect to sell more than 500 per year. That's significantly less than 0.5% per K-5 buyer. Come on, let's do a preorder party and make Pentax committ to at least one cool tele lens.

kenyee · 11-11-2010, 12:41 PM

FWIW, I did ask one of the Pentax reps at the Hunt's photo shop in the Boston area last weekend about the TC. Comment was road maps are not always valid and they don't know why it was dropped.
They really should just add weather sealing to the 1.7x TC and be done with it...make it in another country and import it if lead is an issue...

**Ash** · 11-11-2010, 12:54 PM

This would be a good question to investigate: Would those who are still after a Pentax TC have a change of heart if Pentax did come up with DA 400mm and 500mm primes? There is always the optical formula of the FA* 600/4 to work from...

More reach but still having top IQ - would users be keen to invest in this type of glass?
If Pentax came up with a DA* 250-600, I'm sure people would be impressed, but how many would actually buy it?

Blue · 11-11-2010, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Ash

This would be a good question to investigate: Would those who are still after a Pentax TC have a change of heart if Pentax did come up with DA 400mm and 500mm primes? There is always the optical formula of the FA* 600/4 to work from...

More reach but still having top IQ - would users be keen to invest in this type of glass?
If Pentax came up with a DA* 250-600, I'm sure people would be impressed, but how many would actually buy it?

For me, its not the lack of wanting the FA 600/4. Its a matter of ~ $8500 to get it.

On another note, I like how the claim a TC is last Centuries tech. I wonder what century there Marketing is in?

11-11-2010, 11:42 AM	#102
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Rupert Maybe the Japanese are right? Rupert, good point. They are right, to a certain point. #1 reason for a TC was to be able to compose the image on slide material (film). Last century. #2 reason is to zoom into an image to obtain more detail. That was a valid point with a istD. Not anymore with 90% of lenses. Last century. #3 reason is to boost the resolution limit for the best of primes, even with a 4.7µm pitch sensor which requires lens+TC to resolve 150 lp/mm which is rather hefty. But the best lenses can do this, esp. with digital sharpening aids. #3 is a valid reason, Tokyo should not ignore. I'm just not sure how well the countries can argue when it comes to technical detail. Them and Tokyo don't normally play in one league. #3 is decisive at the moment where the Pentax system is restricted to 300mm and would have to grow to 500+ mm to be competitive. A 1.4x TC would help a lot. IMHO, the TC is a no-brainer (as it is already in prototype stage) and the missing lens really is a fast focussing very sharp 500/5.6 for around $2000 (which should be the expected MSRP applying a diameter-squared price scaling formula and assuming the DA300/4 is $1400). Screw drive plus ring motor SDM. I really think such a lens would sell well. I got the impression that Pentax would build and sell such a lens if they can seriously expect to sell more than 500 per year. That's significantly less than 0.5% per K-5 buyer. Come on, let's do a preorder party and make Pentax committ to at least one cool tele lens. Last edited by falconeye; 11-11-2010 at 12:04 PM.

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11-10-2010, 02:11 PM	#91
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Christopher M.W.T It's annoying that when people had the chance to ask Ned about better accessories, tethering, manual video they simply forgot sigh Good point. It would be interesting to see if he knows anything about the DA tc prototype and whether or not it is going to ever go into production.

11-10-2010, 09:17 PM	#92
Miserere Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Boston Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,993	Originally posted by Blue Good point. It would be interesting to see if he knows anything about the DA tc prototype and whether or not it is going to ever go into production. From my recent chats with Pentax staff, I can tell you that they don't know anything. Three different staff members on two separate occasions told me the same thing: We don't know what happened with the TC and we don't know if it will ever be released. ...

11-11-2010, 06:45 AM	#93
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by Miserere We don't know what happened with the TC and we don't know if it will ever be released. It's really a shame they can't get this out. This is the kind of thing that makes the Pentax system looks really bad from outside. P.S. for coupon codes, you can share or get them at Coupon codes and discounts for 65,000 online stores! RetailMeNot.com

11-11-2010, 07:39 AM	#94
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Miserere From my recent chats with Pentax staff, I can tell you that they don't know anything. Three different staff members on two separate occasions told me the same thing: We don't know what happened with the TC and we don't know if it will ever be released. I cannot confirm Misere's experience. At least the higher German executives know exactly what happened to the TC. I asked. As a matter of fact, Pentax Europe (Hamburg in this case) requested the TC goes in production. Tokyo dismissed the wish. The internal communication between Europe and Japan seems to be such that Tokyo is convinced that the digital age with low pixel pitch sensors doesn't require a TC anymore. At some time, our dear member zackspeed here even tried to help build up evidence that this isn't the case and that there is high interest for a TC indeed. Europe explained to Tokyo that a digitally zoomed image has not the same image quality than an image from a good prime with good TC. Everything has been in vain. For Tokyo, a TC is a last century technology. Period. You can get some rather emotional responses if you ask the right persons at Pentax The fact that Misere got the answer he got tells me that the Americas didn't even care or din't want to disclose the dispute. Shame on Ned

11-11-2010, 07:58 AM	#95
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Well, at least, if not a TC give us a long tele, oh mighty Hoya!

11-11-2010, 08:07 AM	#96
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Maybe the Japanese are right? Just a thought......If you have a 50mm prime, for example, and want to range in 75mm....maybe you should be shooting with the D*50-135 instead. I am betting that at 75mm it will beat most 50mm primes with a TC? Of course, it is a larger lens......but having owned mine for a year or so, the size is nothing compared to the fine IQ it produces. I guess we can't all be satisfied, and we all have different needs and are at different levels of shooting......I couldn't even qualify to carry the gear for a guy like Falk...so I am fairly easily satisfied with what is available, and do try to understand that others have specific needs I may never have. It would be decent if Pentax were more forthcoming with their customers, I think we could all agree to that? Best Regards

11-11-2010, 08:33 AM	#97
kryss Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Alberta Posts: 218	Originally posted by falconeye I cannot confirm Misere's experience. At least the higher German executives know exactly what happened to the TC. I asked. As a matter of fact, Pentax Europe (Hamburg in this case) requested the TC goes in production. Tokyo dismissed the wish. The internal communication between Europe and Japan seems to be such that Tokyo is convinced that the digital age with low pixel pitch sensors doesn't require a TC anymore. At some time, our dear member zackspeed here even tried to help build up evidence that this isn't the case and that there is high interest for a TC indeed. Europe explained to Tokyo that a digitally zoomed image has not the same image quality than an image from a good prime with good TC. Everything has been in vain. For Tokyo, a TC is a last century technology. Period. You can get some rather emotional responses if you ask the right persons at Pentax The fact that Misere got the answer he got tells me that the Americas didn't even care or din't want to disclose the dispute. Shame on Ned Do you know IF the K5 will eventually be able to be fully tethered for studio shooting?

11-11-2010, 08:35 AM	#98
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by falconeye ...Tokyo is convinced that the digital age with low pixel pitch sensors doesn't require a TC anymore. Wow. Can Pentax have moved that far from a photographer/engineer point of view? I don't know how that kind of mindset would have led to the last 3 or 4 camera bodies they released. Maybe there is a struggle between mass-marketing-centric (by that I mean an attitude that says most of our sales are to new or non-serious photographers and we can convince them of this) management and engineering departments. If so, that might explain why initial K5 promo materials showed highest iso of 26K vs. 51K.

11-11-2010, 08:58 AM	#99
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by falconeye Everything has been in vain. For Tokyo, a TC is a last century technology. Period. This can be argued but OTOH it shouldn't matter. What matters is if the the TC can bring money or not. Indirectly (some people will dismiss Pentax because of this lack) or not...

11-11-2010, 09:03 AM	#100
wll Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mission Hills, CA Posts: 773	Originally posted by cfraz Wow. Can Pentax have moved that far from a photographer/engineer point of view? I don't know how that kind of mindset would have led to the last 3 or 4 camera bodies they released. Maybe there is a struggle between mass-marketing-centric (by that I mean an attitude that says most of our sales are to new or non-serious photographers and we can convince them of this) management and engineering departments. If so, that might explain why initial K5 promo materials showed highest iso of 26K vs. 51K. Pentax marketing has always been very poor, and its a shame. I'm sure poor Ned has his hands full as Pentax Japan is in charge and they seem not to have a clue ... look at all the mistakes and ? at the introduction of the K-5 ! Not to have a TC in your line up and not to have tethering is mind blowing !!!! How is it even possible rational thought not to have tethering on a quote, un-quote "semi professional camera", one that has the best APS-C sensor in history (as of today), and is feature laden and has one of the best built bodies of anybody .... I just don't understand ! Yes, I'm a Pentax fan, Yes I'm up to my ears in K20D's and will be purchasing the K-5's when the price lowers a bit (already bought the battery grips and batteries). That being said, I still don't like the fact that a camera of this caliber cannot be tethered as of today. I have heard rumors that upcoming software will allow this and I very,very much hope it is true ! Pentax japan needs to get in touch with what is going on and what the photographers in the street are asking for. No, you can't please everyone but when your asked over and over again by multitudes of people for a product or feature, maybe you should listen. Yes, they listened to the high ISO and DR request and hit a home run. The listened to AF and its speed complaints and again did a fine job. Now its maybe time to hit tethering and the lens line up a bit, IMHO So much for my rant ;- ) wll

11-11-2010, 11:13 AM	#101
uccemebug Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by lesmore49 We maybe be sleepy but we have the best set of govt. regs in the world....note no banks went out of business here...and little...hardly, we are the second biggest (physical size) country in the world. Population wise...we are small......but I like it that way...and it looks like many in the world want to live in Canada. Yes, people do want to live in Canada, and with good reason (if they're weather resistant themselves). Everyone in Tokyo we've spoken to who knows something about the education systems in both countries urges us to raise our boy in Canada. I was pretty surprised but they insist that the focus on creative thinking (in Canada) rather than conformity (in Japan) is the way to go. But my point is that internationally, no one knows Canada for creating businesses etc. If you want investment, or a trade partner to open channels, or some marketing advice, etc you go to the US not to Canada (or Denmark).

11-11-2010, 12:41 PM	#103
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	FWIW, I did ask one of the Pentax reps at the Hunt's photo shop in the Boston area last weekend about the TC. Comment was road maps are not always valid and they don't know why it was dropped. They really should just add weather sealing to the 1.7x TC and be done with it...make it in another country and import it if lead is an issue...

11-11-2010, 12:54 PM	#104
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	This would be a good question to investigate: Would those who are still after a Pentax TC have a change of heart if Pentax did come up with DA 400mm and 500mm primes? There is always the optical formula of the FA* 600/4 to work from... More reach but still having top IQ - would users be keen to invest in this type of glass? If Pentax came up with a DA* 250-600, I'm sure people would be impressed, but how many would actually buy it?

11-11-2010, 04:22 PM	#105
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Ash This would be a good question to investigate: Would those who are still after a Pentax TC have a change of heart if Pentax did come up with DA 400mm and 500mm primes? There is always the optical formula of the FA* 600/4 to work from... More reach but still having top IQ - would users be keen to invest in this type of glass? If Pentax came up with a DA* 250-600, I'm sure people would be impressed, but how many would actually buy it? For me, its not the lack of wanting the FA 600/4. Its a matter of ~ $8500 to get it. On another note, I like how the claim a TC is last Centuries tech. I wonder what century there Marketing is in?