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09-16-2010, 01:29 AM   #151
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I can say that D700 is good machine under technical specs. It's camera with better video than D300s, but with lower speed, buffer and more simple controls than D300s.

But I never buy Nikon, because Nikon and Canon's cameras are ugly. Not beautiful. Very plain and frigid. Not sex appeal.

As for price D7000 - Pentax can offer new K-r for $800, K-7 for $900. If K-5 will be $1500, I don't see any problem.

09-16-2010, 01:38 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by ghelary Quote
Same for full backward compatibility, Nikon has not a full backward compatbility for any of theiir camera. If you pick up an old lens you have to get through a painfull chart to know weither or not you can put this lens on your camera and what will be the limitations. Worst limitations for Pentax DSLRs is metering for the oldest ones (and the green button is a great work around)
Nikon put back their aperture coupler on this D7000... So that's a step ahead of Pentax...
09-16-2010, 01:44 AM   #153
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Nikon put back their aperture coupler on this D7000... So that's a step ahead of Pentax...
What exactly does that do?
09-16-2010, 01:44 AM   #154
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Guys, mind that I wasn't refering to those who have tons of manual lenses, oldies who used to shoot pentax film bodies and fanboys or the few pros heavily invested in SDM zooms and/or primes, FA limiteds. I was reffering to the average DSLR user who got hooked at the time by the good price/features of pentax and the whole customer supported buzz about how great is to have milions of manual lenses to try.

Currently, Pentax lenses are priced much higher than 2-3 years ago, the line-up contains only a few options (granted very nice primes amongst them, but still very few). SDM issue, coming obsessively in a lot of user feedback (some having 2-3 failures un the same lens) was NEVER neither acknowledged by Pentax (goof heads IMO) and apparently nor addressed. This is like screwing your customers in my book. Try and make a google search "Nikon lens failure" and "Pentax lens failure" and see the results. - 2,000,000 hits for Nikon and 735,000 hits for pentax while the number of nikons are maybe 10-15 times greater than pentaxes.

So, I am a pentax user looking to upgrade...I have a body K10/20/200D with FA 50 1.4, the 18-55mm and the 55-300mm and 1 A 50mm f1.7 which I use for reversed macro. I want something better, faster, with more ISO and resolution, with good video and weather sealed so I was waiting for the follower of the K7 (K7 was too little of an upgrade for me). And I see a lot of buzz about the D7000. What I might think?

1. Specs are very competitive sometimes better for nikon in critical parts (AF, AF in video mode, flash, compatibility)
2. One can actually feel and try the D7000 in every freaking camera store out there whereas for Pentax one has to rely on internet in the most cases.
3. smaller price for D7000 and...
5. better brand image, service support, lenses availability (including affordable and good AF primes)
6. I could swap lenses with my nikon shooting friends
7. weather sealing - this really is overrated - dust and moisture is enough for 95% of the customers - who the heck and how often is shooting in pouring rain?

and so on...

get real people, Pentax will be hurt, that is for sure - look at the activity on the marketplace - now would be a good time for those who stay on Pentax to aquire some lenses

I have a K7 and I fully agree that it is a very well build and capable camera (btw the sensor broke after less than a year and 15000 actuations and I am expecting to wait 2-3 months for the replacement based on other's feedback) and I intend to keep it (with the FA 31mm and the kit lens for "pouring rain" )

LE: the only solution I see is aggressive pricing on K5 and/or aggresive promotion on Kr and forget K5


Last edited by kytra; 09-16-2010 at 01:53 AM.
09-16-2010, 01:57 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I can say that D700 is good machine under technical specs. It's camera with better video than D300s, but with lower speed, buffer and more simple controls than D300s.

But I never buy Nikon, because Nikon and Canon's cameras are ugly. Not beautiful. Very plain and frigid. Not sex appeal.

As for price D7000 - Pentax can offer new K-r for $800, K-7 for $900. If K-5 will be $1500, I don't see any problem.
I really don't want to have sex with my K7, the metall mount could hurt me badly
09-16-2010, 02:00 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
And I see a lot of buzz about the D7000. What I might think?

1. Specs are very competitive sometimes better for nikon in critical parts (AF, AF in video mode, flash, compatibility)
2. One can actually feel and try the D7000 in every freaking camera store out there whereas for Pentax one has to rely on internet in the most cases.
3. smaller price for D7000 and...
5. better brand image, service support, lenses availability (including affordable and good AF primes)
6. I could swap lenses with my nikon shooting friends
7. weather sealing - this really is overrated - dust and moisture is enough for 95% of the customers - who the heck and how often is shooting in pouring rain?

and so on...
That's right. It is just that all these 7 points could be applied prior to introduction of Nikon D7000 as well...

Further, I may add that if (as you point out) one is not heavily invested into Pentax (premium) glass but rather has a camera body, a kit or double kit and may be one or two more not too expensive lenses, then for them it may be very enticing to abandon Pentax. I admit, if I were among them, I would be now paying the forum fee to put my stuff on sale in the marketplace.
09-16-2010, 02:21 AM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
I really don't want to have sex with my K7, the metall mount could hurt me badly
You can just touch...
09-16-2010, 02:54 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
Guys, mind that I wasn't refering to those who have tons of manual lenses, oldies who used to shoot pentax film bodies and fanboys. I was reffering to the average DSLR user who got hooked at the time by the good price/features of pentax and the whole customer supported buzz about how great is to have milions of manual lenses to try.

Currently, Pentax lenses are priced much higher than 2-3 years ago, the line-up contains only a few options (granted very nice primes amongst them, but still very few). SDM issue, coming obsessively in a lot of user feedback (some having 2-3 failures un the same lens) was NEVER neither acknowledged by Pentax (goof heads IMO) and apparently nor addressed. This is like screwing your customers in my book. Try and make a google search "Nikon lens failure" and "Pentax lens failure" and see the results. - 2,000,000 hits for Nikon and 735,000 hits for pentax while the number of nikons are maybe 10-15 times greater than pentaxes.

So, I am a pentax user looking to upgrade...I have a body K10/20/200D with FA 50 1.4, the 18-55mm and the 55-300mm and 1 A 50mm f1.7 which I use for reversed macro. I want something better, faster, with more ISO and resolution, with good video and weather sealed so I was waiting for the follower of the K7 (K7 was too little of an upgrade for me). And I see a lot of buzz about the D7000. What I might think?

1. Specs are very competitive sometimes better for nikon in critical parts (AF, AF in video mode, flash, compatibility)
2. One can actually feel and try the D7000 in every freaking camera store out there whereas for Pentax one has to rely on internet in the most cases.
3. smaller price for D7000 and...
5. better brand image, service support, lenses availability (including affordable and good AF primes)
6. I could swap lenses with my nikon shooting friends
7. weather sealing - this really is overrated - dust and moisture is enough for 95% of the customers - who the heck and how often is shooting in pouring rain?

and so on...

get real people, Pentax will be hurt, that is for sure - look at the activity on the marketplace - now would be a good time for those who stay on Pentax to aquire some lenses

I have a K7 and I fully agree that it is a very well build and capable camera (btw the sensor broke after less than a year and 15000 actuations and I am expecting to wait 2-3 months for the replacement based on other's feedback) and I intend to keep it (with the FA 31mm and the kit lens for "pouring rain" )
Whatever you can tell about the weathersealing being overrated this is a feature that request a better build and cost more money. If you don't need it, then the K-r may be a bettter camera for you (smaller and much cheaper)

As being said before, yes the Nikon will outsell the Pentax, there is no surprise about it. Now, i don't agree that Nikon's lenses are cheaper than Pentax, especially in the higher range which is the one that will interest K-5 buyer they are in fact much more expensive (they are also more expensive than Canon)

Regarding backward compatbility, I maintain that Pentax has better compatibility. I have a very good friend who shoot Nikon, and whose father is a Nikon lens collector, and knowing if he can put a lens or not on his camera is often a headhache. Pentax is a no brainer.

I do love Pentax for a certain philosohy of photography and that don't have Nikon. I love their rugged, compact cameras and pancakes primes. Nikon cameras and lenses are hudge. I have a semi-pro friend who moved away from Nikon to Canon when Nikon went digital because he didn't like the image rendition.

There are tons of reasons to stay with one brand more than another. And I really don't see how 2 cameras that journalists haven't fully tested yet, let alone announced (for k-5) will eat one another because of small price difference on expected price.

09-16-2010, 02:59 AM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
who the heck and how often is shooting in pouring rain?
Me, sometimes once a week during winter. It's great not having to worry about the camera, but as Pentax don't make a fast long weather-sealed zoom I have to cover my Sigma 70-200/2.8, but the camera gets quite wet. Weather-sealing isn't over-rated by me.
09-16-2010, 05:22 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I can say that D700 is good machine under technical specs. It's camera with better video than D300s, but with lower speed, buffer and more simple controls than D300s.

But I never buy Nikon, because Nikon and Canon's cameras are ugly. Not beautiful. Very plain and frigid. Not sex appeal.

As for price D7000 - Pentax can offer new K-r for $800, K-7 for $900. If K-5 will be $1500, I don't see any problem.
don't see a problem?
really?

so it's either the k5 has some secret feature that would blow the socks off the D7000 or suddenly Pentax marketing has a preconceived sure-fire 100% marketing plan I see a problem here.

having SR is great, something Nikon will most probably never have, but to have a price differential of $200 and (still rumors at this point) not having Video AF, dual card slots, 39 pt af and other of the nikon features WILL make it hard to get new users into the Pentax fold.

just look at how Nikon marketing timed the D7000's release with reviews from 3rd party sites.
Do you see that with pentax's Kr? a ho-hum video from pentax marketing in colorado.

as someone else mentioned earlier, is Nikon trying to kill of Pentax/Oly ? with moves like this, maybe.

i would have expected something spec'd like this to cost considerably more, but noooo.
Nikon choose to put it at a price that would kill the competition.

still not a problem for the K5 at $1400?

no marketing, no brick and mortar presence? not a problem?

Last edited by opiedog; 09-16-2010 at 05:35 AM.
09-16-2010, 05:40 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
just look at how Nikon marketing timed the D7000's release with reviews from 3rd party sites.
Do you see that with pentax's Kr? a ho-hum video from pentax marketing in colorado.
Huh? The K-r gets lots of press

pentax k-r - Google News
09-16-2010, 06:03 AM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
Huh? The K-r gets lots of press

pentax k-r - Google News
yes, the Kr has quite a few press releases. but how many of that came during the announcement?
in short, how much impact did those have?

nikon marketing HAD a game plan. big reviews right on announcement date
Nikon D7000 Preview Images | Chase Jarvis Blog

where is pentax' marketing?

don't get me wrong.

i'd like pentax to succeed and as one member has stated, would pentax and the other smaller players be slowly killed off?

my wallet is still on the k5.
09-16-2010, 06:11 AM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
yes, the Kr has quite a few press releases. but how many of that came during the announcement?
Both Imaging Resource and dpreview previewed the K-r on the day of the announcement.
I still don't get your point.
09-16-2010, 06:13 AM   #164
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
don't see a problem?
really?
JPEG from D7000 is really CMOSish. I don't like it.
09-16-2010, 06:31 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
not having Video AF, dual card slots, 39 pt af and other of the nikon features WILL make it hard to get new users into the Pentax fold.
Video AF is not hard to do, K-7 had it in pre-release firmware. Pentax can add it anytime as a bullet point in a spec list. No guarantee about the performance of course but we don't know either about the D7000.

Dual card slots is a feature Pentax implemented in the 645D. They could have done it in the K-5 but I think space restrain prevented that unfortunately. But it's mainly a nice to have, like the Dust removal, dust alert and auto HDR of the K-7 for example. Speaking of HDR the D7000 seems to be limited to 3 shots spaced by only 1 EV ! Not nice. The K-7 can do 5 shots separated by 2EV.

The AF system may be the big difference if SAFOX IX is not improved enough. But SR will still be a big advantage for Pentax, especially the prime shooters.
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