if the D7000 is spec'd/priced as rumored

youky63 · 09-16-2010, 06:42 AM

The kit D7000 + 18-105mm has a price (in Belgium): 1.259 euros
Which means almost 600 euros (780 USD) less than K5 kit in Germany. It will be a hard time...

**Aristophanes** · 09-16-2010, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by kytra

Currently, Pentax lenses are priced much higher than 2-3 years ago,

The Yen was 25% lower then relative to the $US.

What's really happened is a long, slow erosion of the $US purchasing power.

Don't confuse corporate policy with worldwide currency conditions.

opiedog · 09-16-2010, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Both Imaging Resource and dpreview previewed the K-r on the day of the announcement.
I still don't get your point.

Espen,

my point is, having it in IR and DPr is NOT enough if you're trying to gain market share.

just look at that video from pentax colorado.
Pentax' marketing if it does exist, needs to get their arse's kicked.

waiting for the k5

regards,

jordan

kytra · 09-16-2010, 07:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by opiedog

Espen,

my point is, having it in IR and DPr is NOT enough if you're trying to gain market share.

just look at that video from pentax colorado.
Pentax' marketing if it does exist, needs to get their arse's kicked.

waiting for the k5

regards,

jordan

It is so simple - just hire an agency and brief them "we want maximum exposure after launch" or hell at least I would distribute some Kr in the prelaunch to some very active Pentax bloggers/forumists and tell them to unleash their opinions/reviews immediately after the announcement. So simple... but obviously too hard for them.

Even D7000 had a pretty pale pr campaign, luckily for them the combination spec/price is freaking awesome coming from such an established and aspirational brand.

opiedog · 09-16-2010, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by kytra

It is so simple - just hire an agency and brief them "we want maximum exposure after launch" or hell at least I would distribute some Kr in the prelaunch to some very active Pentax bloggers/forumists and tell them to unleash their opinions/reviews immediately after the announcement. So simple... but obviously too hard for them.

Even D7000 had a pretty pale pr campaign, luckily for them the combination spec/price is freaking awesome coming from such an established and aspirational brand.

EXACTLY!
how difficult is it to have distributed a few Kr's to active Pentax bloggers?

MAXIMUM Exposure! flaunt your features! AA and Lithium ION battery! SR!
what else?

edl · 09-16-2010, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by dlacouture

Nikon put back their aperture coupler on this D7000... So that's a step ahead of Pentax...

Originally posted by JohnBee

What exactly does that do?

It allows you to use any Nikkor AI lens or newer on the D7000 and have real metering. Not like Pentax, where you get to hit the green button to "stop down" and guess at an exposure.

Truth is, the Pentax compatability with MF glass is in mount only. Since the meter doesn't work on most MF glass without hitting the green button (A models exempted), you're basically guessing at exposure most of the time anyways in dynamic shooting situations. Yes, the green button method works okay in a static situation, on a tripod, in a studio, etc. But you be in M mode if you're doing that type of work anyways.

And if you want to use M42's, mount them to a Canon 5D. That's the cheapest and most versitile M42 FF digital solution you can get. It will meter just fine in A mode, too.

Yes, Canon and Nikon are missing in-body IS...but if you're shooting anything that moves you better be over 1/60th. You can handhold that without IS - give it a try sometime!

The D7000 is impressive. With 100% viewfinder and AI coupler, I can see myself using this as a lightweight travel body with the 16-85 VR, 70-300 VR, and a few fast MF primes (24/2 and 50/1.2) for night work.

Urkeldaedalus · 09-16-2010, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by edl

It allows you to use any Nikkor AI lens or newer on the D7000 and have real metering. Not like Pentax, where you get to hit the green button to "stop down" and guess at an exposure.

Truth is, the Pentax compatability with MF glass is in mount only. Since the meter doesn't work on most MF glass without hitting the green button (A models exempted), you're basically guessing at exposure most of the time anyways in dynamic shooting situations. Yes, the green button method works okay in a static situation, on a tripod, in a studio, etc. But you be in M mode if you're doing that type of work anyways.

And if you want to use M42's, mount them to a Canon 5D. That's the cheapest and most versitile M42 FF digital solution you can get. It will meter just fine in A mode, too.

Yes, Canon and Nikon are missing in-body IS...but if you're shooting anything that moves you better be over 1/60th. You can handhold that without IS - give it a try sometime!

The D7000 is impressive. With 100% viewfinder and AI coupler, I can see myself using this as a lightweight travel body with the 16-85 VR, 70-300 VR, and a few fast MF primes (24/2 and 50/1.2) for night work.

When I use manual focus (Pentax K and M) lenses on my K-7 they work in AV and the other modes and give me an exposure based on the aperture ring of the lens. Sure it's more convenient to set the aperture in camera with A lenses but it's not the stop down metering like you're describing. Is it different with Takumars?

alexeyga · 09-16-2010, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus

When I use manual focus (Pentax K and M) lenses on my K-7 they work in AV and the other modes and give me an exposure based on the aperture ring of the lens. Sure it's more convenient to set the aperture in camera with A lenses but it's not the stop down metering like you're describing. Is it different with Takumars?

That's the thing with all AIS Nikon glass and that little coupling lever... U set the camera into the A-mode and the camera reads the current aperture setting through that lever... Same as Pentax with A-lenses... With K and M lenses you have to either always meter with the green button or use the EV compensation... Fundamentally Nikon's system is more complicated to make, but works much better and there are some true MF jewels there...

Clicker · 09-16-2010, 08:18 AM

The original kit maybe tempting in price but what happens when you have to start adding more glass? It's fine if you have the means but does it impact the end (images) that much more? I can justify a move up in format but across in the same format....only if i need something that current brand doesn't quite reach.

alan_smithee_photos · 09-16-2010, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

This was posted by myself on another thread but since I keep seeing more and more talk about the D7000 vs. K5, you may be interested with this:

Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5 - Photo.net Pentax Forum

JP

That is a pretty interesting conversation.

Can anyone clarify/confirm the points about how the D7K (and upper end Nikons) work with legacy MF lenses. Is it the case that they meter and function in all modes (just lacking AF of course)? If there's a firmware and/or coupling route around it wft is the point of the green button?

This is a huge selling point for me (and clearly something I'm ignorant of re: Nikons).

**Aristophanes** · 09-16-2010, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by Clicker

The original kit maybe tempting in price but what happens when you have to start adding more glass?

You get a Nikon 5 year warranty!

virgilr · 09-16-2010, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus

When I use manual focus (Pentax K and M) lenses on my K-7 they work in AV and the other modes and give me an exposure based on the aperture ring of the lens. Sure it's more convenient to set the aperture in camera with A lenses but it's not the stop down metering like you're describing. Is it different with Takumars?

Really? When you change the aperture setting on the lens aperture ring, the body adjusts the shutter speed? Well, yes, that'll work if you leave the lens WIDE OPEN, but if you stop down, there is (AFIK) no way for the body to know the aperture setting on the lens, since (again, AFIK) ALL digital Pentax bodies have a "crippled" K mount, that leaves out the mechanical coupling used on earlier film bodies to be able to sense the tension on the aperture coupling lever to determine the current lens aperture setting via the aperture ring.

I'm still shooting the heck out of my ol' K100D super. I use the green button (well, AE-L button on this body) and just drop the shutter speed .7 to 1 stop faster (depending on the lens) with my M and K glass, and shoot! Takes all of about 1 second and I'm good to go.

However, to me, the inclusion of the mechanical coupling/sensor on a "pro" Pentax body would seriously make me consider the purchase of a new body, and show a certain commitment to the "pros" shooting with Pentax, since the concept of a professional isn't how much money they spend on gear but the results they get. I have to say (not ship-jumping right now, that's for sure! In-body SR and all the great manual glass that's out there just keeps me having fun with this system), but the fact that Nikon recognized the value of their legacy/vintage glass and it's usability was a huge nod to it's user base, especially those that value image quality over bells and whistles. As well, they threw in the ability to profile lenses mounted that do not have any electronic communication with the body. THAT's a nice touch!

Someday we'll see this on a pentax DSLR?

alan_smithee_photos · 09-16-2010, 09:29 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by virgilr

the inclusion of the mechanical coupling/sensor on a "pro" Pentax body would seriously make me consider the purchase of a new body, and show a certain commitment to the "pros" shooting with Pentax... the fact that Nikon recognized the value of their legacy/vintage glass and it's usability was a huge nod to it's user base

+1
100% agree.

alexeyga · 09-16-2010, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by alan_smithee_photos

+1
100% agree.

Looking at Pentax I'm starting to think that Nikon's policy paid off after all... To this day, all the pro features were reserved for pros and all the old glass for pro-level bodies... But now when the market is soaked with glass of all levels for all budgets, it's time to let the amateurs to play with old glass... Pentax has virtually killed the used market... demand is way higher than supply, so prices are way up and people are wondering... why is that similar in specs CaNikon's glass is much cheaper?

happygui · 09-16-2010, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by alexeyga

Looking at Pentax I'm starting to think that Nikon's policy paid off after all... To this day, all the pro features were reserved for pros and all the old glass for pro-level bodies... But now when the market is soaked with glass of all levels for all budgets, it's time to let the amateurs to play with old glass... Pentax has virtually killed the used market... demand is way higher than supply, so prices are way up and people are wondering... why is that similar in specs CaNikon's glass is much cheaper?

+1 Nikon made a big move. I cannot wait to see what K5 has. If the unveiled specifications were correct, K5 is not better than d7000 in any perspective. Not sure how it reflects on the price.

09-16-2010, 06:50 AM	#167
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by kytra Currently, Pentax lenses are priced much higher than 2-3 years ago, The Yen was 25% lower then relative to the $US. What's really happened is a long, slow erosion of the $US purchasing power. Don't confuse corporate policy with worldwide currency conditions. Last edited by Aristophanes; 09-16-2010 at 08:53 AM.

09-16-2010, 07:24 AM	#171
edl Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: San Francisco Posts: 457	Originally posted by dlacouture Nikon put back their aperture coupler on this D7000... So that's a step ahead of Pentax... Originally posted by JohnBee What exactly does that do? It allows you to use any Nikkor AI lens or newer on the D7000 and have real metering. Not like Pentax, where you get to hit the green button to "stop down" and guess at an exposure. Truth is, the Pentax compatability with MF glass is in mount only. Since the meter doesn't work on most MF glass without hitting the green button (A models exempted), you're basically guessing at exposure most of the time anyways in dynamic shooting situations. Yes, the green button method works okay in a static situation, on a tripod, in a studio, etc. But you be in M mode if you're doing that type of work anyways. And if you want to use M42's, mount them to a Canon 5D. That's the cheapest and most versitile M42 FF digital solution you can get. It will meter just fine in A mode, too. Yes, Canon and Nikon are missing in-body IS...but if you're shooting anything that moves you better be over 1/60th. You can handhold that without IS - give it a try sometime! The D7000 is impressive. With 100% viewfinder and AI coupler, I can see myself using this as a lightweight travel body with the 16-85 VR, 70-300 VR, and a few fast MF primes (24/2 and 50/1.2) for night work. Last edited by edl; 09-16-2010 at 07:31 AM.

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09-16-2010, 06:42 AM	#166
youky63 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Osaka Posts: 143	The kit D7000 + 18-105mm has a price (in Belgium): 1.259 euros Which means almost 600 euros (780 USD) less than K5 kit in Germany. It will be a hard time...

09-16-2010, 06:51 AM	#168
opiedog Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NC Posts: 787 Original Poster	Originally posted by gazonk Both Imaging Resource and dpreview previewed the K-r on the day of the announcement. I still don't get your point. Espen, my point is, having it in IR and DPr is NOT enough if you're trying to gain market share. just look at that video from pentax colorado. Pentax' marketing if it does exist, needs to get their arse's kicked. waiting for the k5 regards, jordan

09-16-2010, 07:00 AM - 1 Like	#169
kytra Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Bucharest Posts: 482	Originally posted by opiedog Espen, my point is, having it in IR and DPr is NOT enough if you're trying to gain market share. just look at that video from pentax colorado. Pentax' marketing if it does exist, needs to get their arse's kicked. waiting for the k5 regards, jordan It is so simple - just hire an agency and brief them "we want maximum exposure after launch" or hell at least I would distribute some Kr in the prelaunch to some very active Pentax bloggers/forumists and tell them to unleash their opinions/reviews immediately after the announcement. So simple... but obviously too hard for them. Even D7000 had a pretty pale pr campaign, luckily for them the combination spec/price is freaking awesome coming from such an established and aspirational brand.

09-16-2010, 07:16 AM	#170
opiedog Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NC Posts: 787 Original Poster	Originally posted by kytra It is so simple - just hire an agency and brief them "we want maximum exposure after launch" or hell at least I would distribute some Kr in the prelaunch to some very active Pentax bloggers/forumists and tell them to unleash their opinions/reviews immediately after the announcement. So simple... but obviously too hard for them. Even D7000 had a pretty pale pr campaign, luckily for them the combination spec/price is freaking awesome coming from such an established and aspirational brand. EXACTLY! how difficult is it to have distributed a few Kr's to active Pentax bloggers? MAXIMUM Exposure! flaunt your features! AA and Lithium ION battery! SR! what else?

09-16-2010, 07:34 AM	#172
Urkeldaedalus Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Iowa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,369	Originally posted by edl It allows you to use any Nikkor AI lens or newer on the D7000 and have real metering. Not like Pentax, where you get to hit the green button to "stop down" and guess at an exposure. Truth is, the Pentax compatability with MF glass is in mount only. Since the meter doesn't work on most MF glass without hitting the green button (A models exempted), you're basically guessing at exposure most of the time anyways in dynamic shooting situations. Yes, the green button method works okay in a static situation, on a tripod, in a studio, etc. But you be in M mode if you're doing that type of work anyways. And if you want to use M42's, mount them to a Canon 5D. That's the cheapest and most versitile M42 FF digital solution you can get. It will meter just fine in A mode, too. Yes, Canon and Nikon are missing in-body IS...but if you're shooting anything that moves you better be over 1/60th. You can handhold that without IS - give it a try sometime! The D7000 is impressive. With 100% viewfinder and AI coupler, I can see myself using this as a lightweight travel body with the 16-85 VR, 70-300 VR, and a few fast MF primes (24/2 and 50/1.2) for night work. When I use manual focus (Pentax K and M) lenses on my K-7 they work in AV and the other modes and give me an exposure based on the aperture ring of the lens. Sure it's more convenient to set the aperture in camera with A lenses but it's not the stop down metering like you're describing. Is it different with Takumars?

09-16-2010, 08:15 AM	#173
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus When I use manual focus (Pentax K and M) lenses on my K-7 they work in AV and the other modes and give me an exposure based on the aperture ring of the lens. Sure it's more convenient to set the aperture in camera with A lenses but it's not the stop down metering like you're describing. Is it different with Takumars? That's the thing with all AIS Nikon glass and that little coupling lever... U set the camera into the A-mode and the camera reads the current aperture setting through that lever... Same as Pentax with A-lenses... With K and M lenses you have to either always meter with the green button or use the EV compensation... Fundamentally Nikon's system is more complicated to make, but works much better and there are some true MF jewels there...

09-16-2010, 08:18 AM	#174
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	The original kit maybe tempting in price but what happens when you have to start adding more glass? It's fine if you have the means but does it impact the end (images) that much more? I can justify a move up in format but across in the same format....only if i need something that current brand doesn't quite reach.

09-16-2010, 08:51 AM	#175
alan_smithee_photos Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 844	Originally posted by jpzk This was posted by myself on another thread but since I keep seeing more and more talk about the D7000 vs. K5, you may be interested with this: Nikon D7000 and Pentax K5 - Photo.net Pentax Forum JP That is a pretty interesting conversation. Can anyone clarify/confirm the points about how the D7K (and upper end Nikons) work with legacy MF lenses. Is it the case that they meter and function in all modes (just lacking AF of course)? If there's a firmware and/or coupling route around it wft is the point of the green button? This is a huge selling point for me (and clearly something I'm ignorant of re: Nikons).

09-16-2010, 08:56 AM	#176
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by Clicker The original kit maybe tempting in price but what happens when you have to start adding more glass? You get a Nikon 5 year warranty!

09-16-2010, 09:01 AM	#177
virgilr Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lachine, Quebec, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 453	Originally posted by Urkeldaedalus When I use manual focus (Pentax K and M) lenses on my K-7 they work in AV and the other modes and give me an exposure based on the aperture ring of the lens. Sure it's more convenient to set the aperture in camera with A lenses but it's not the stop down metering like you're describing. Is it different with Takumars? Really? When you change the aperture setting on the lens aperture ring, the body adjusts the shutter speed? Well, yes, that'll work if you leave the lens WIDE OPEN, but if you stop down, there is (AFIK) no way for the body to know the aperture setting on the lens, since (again, AFIK) ALL digital Pentax bodies have a "crippled" K mount, that leaves out the mechanical coupling used on earlier film bodies to be able to sense the tension on the aperture coupling lever to determine the current lens aperture setting via the aperture ring. I'm still shooting the heck out of my ol' K100D super. I use the green button (well, AE-L button on this body) and just drop the shutter speed .7 to 1 stop faster (depending on the lens) with my M and K glass, and shoot! Takes all of about 1 second and I'm good to go. However, to me, the inclusion of the mechanical coupling/sensor on a "pro" Pentax body would seriously make me consider the purchase of a new body, and show a certain commitment to the "pros" shooting with Pentax, since the concept of a professional isn't how much money they spend on gear but the results they get. I have to say (not ship-jumping right now, that's for sure! In-body SR and all the great manual glass that's out there just keeps me having fun with this system), but the fact that Nikon recognized the value of their legacy/vintage glass and it's usability was a huge nod to it's user base, especially those that value image quality over bells and whistles. As well, they threw in the ability to profile lenses mounted that do not have any electronic communication with the body. THAT's a nice touch! Someday we'll see this on a pentax DSLR?

09-16-2010, 09:29 AM - 1 Like	#178
alan_smithee_photos Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 844	Originally posted by virgilr the inclusion of the mechanical coupling/sensor on a "pro" Pentax body would seriously make me consider the purchase of a new body, and show a certain commitment to the "pros" shooting with Pentax... the fact that Nikon recognized the value of their legacy/vintage glass and it's usability was a huge nod to it's user base +1 100% agree.

09-16-2010, 10:01 AM	#179
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	Originally posted by alan_smithee_photos +1 100% agree. Looking at Pentax I'm starting to think that Nikon's policy paid off after all... To this day, all the pro features were reserved for pros and all the old glass for pro-level bodies... But now when the market is soaked with glass of all levels for all budgets, it's time to let the amateurs to play with old glass... Pentax has virtually killed the used market... demand is way higher than supply, so prices are way up and people are wondering... why is that similar in specs CaNikon's glass is much cheaper?

09-16-2010, 10:21 AM	#180
happygui Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: OHIO Posts: 211	Originally posted by alexeyga Looking at Pentax I'm starting to think that Nikon's policy paid off after all... To this day, all the pro features were reserved for pros and all the old glass for pro-level bodies... But now when the market is soaked with glass of all levels for all budgets, it's time to let the amateurs to play with old glass... Pentax has virtually killed the used market... demand is way higher than supply, so prices are way up and people are wondering... why is that similar in specs CaNikon's glass is much cheaper? +1 Nikon made a big move. I cannot wait to see what K5 has. If the unveiled specifications were correct, K5 is not better than d7000 in any perspective. Not sure how it reflects on the price.