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09-15-2010, 11:00 AM   #16
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I have doublt for such a claim as if the D7000 were as good as the D3, Nikon would canibalize themselves.

09-15-2010, 11:37 AM   #17
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If the rumours are correct then the High Iso performance of K-5 will be miles better than the K-7. As it is rumoured K-5 will be using the same Sony sensor.

Last edited by Chaitanya; 09-15-2010 at 11:38 AM. Reason: typing error
09-15-2010, 12:00 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Doanh Quote
I have doublt for such a claim as if the D7000 were as good as the D3, Nikon would canibalize themselves.
Don't think so, the FF lovers won't believe that so they won't buy, period.
09-15-2010, 12:02 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Don't think so, the FF lovers won't believe that so they won't buy, period.
Hahaha. So true!

09-15-2010, 12:10 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by gawan Quote
Just my thoughts, the next generation of FF sensors are destined to be awesome!
This is my thought as well. FF sensor development will not stand still. These new APS-C sensor IQ,DR, ISO are amazing compared to last generation FF. But now what's FF got in store next year?

I think we are going to see just stupid crazy ISO development in FF. FF always had great IQ and DR so it's interesting to see what's going to happen next!
09-15-2010, 12:18 PM   #21
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I was told several months ago that the new Sony sensors would finally match or exceed my FF Canon 5D. I think that is a real possibility, and the Canon 5D has an excellent sensor.

I do not see the new sensor matching the D3.

I think the most important thing will be DR. Better DR allows for the capture of more detail which can have a very big impact on the image.

We will see how much of an impact the D7000 has on the K-5 pricing. If the K-5 does not have the AF to compete with the D7000 it will be hard to attract potential new buyers.
09-15-2010, 12:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If the K-5 does not have the AF to compete with the D7000 it will be hard to attract potential new buyers.
If the K-5 does not have AF to compete with Canon/Nikon then I think this time they will lose a lot of current users never mind attract potential buyers.

I will be one of them.
09-15-2010, 01:08 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by kalison Quote
This is my thought as well. FF sensor development will not stand still. These new APS-C sensor IQ,DR, ISO are amazing compared to last generation FF. But now what's FF got in store next year?

I think we are going to see just stupid crazy ISO development in FF. FF always had great IQ and DR so it's interesting to see what's going to happen next!
hehe, if current FF was good enough for FF fanboys.....

09-15-2010, 01:24 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by kalison Quote
This is my thought as well. FF sensor development will not stand still. These new APS-C sensor IQ,DR, ISO are amazing compared to last generation FF. But now what's FF got in store next year?

I think we are going to see just stupid crazy ISO development in FF. FF always had great IQ and DR so it's interesting to see what's going to happen next!
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Economies of scale is a force of nature when it comes to semiconductor manufacturing and APS-C sensors have a critical mass that makes R&D much higher for APS-C vs. FF. Look at x86 vs. RISC, the sheer volume fabbed means that APS-C will be able to make a leap and a bound in the time it takes FF to leap.
09-15-2010, 01:30 PM   #25
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A sample at 3200

Check this sample out if you are interested.
D7000 high iso sample. is it as good as D700? : Nikon D3 - D1 / D700 Forum: Digital Photography Review

But also read the comment from the next poster (the first response)
About a stop difference.

The K-x is a stop and a bit difference to the D700 from what I can make out in Imaging resources comparison.

So, ballpark we are talking about similar performance to the K-x, but at 16MP.

So about the level of the Canon 5D.
09-15-2010, 02:07 PM   #26
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That's really a very weak article being cited and a weak post in turn.

People get easily excited. Noise on D3 and D700 is similar and many think it is seriously challenged by D5000 or K-x.

One really should await true RAW file noise measurements before talking up. To create a thread with this title ... shaking his head ...

So, nothing to see here, please move along... :ugh:


QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
I was reading a few posts today on the D7000 and came accross the interesting claim made by a field tester that the camera noise performance was on par with the D3 FF camera.

Reference: New Nikon D7000: a Canon 60D killer? New Nikon D7000: a Canon 60D killer? — Aputure Blog
I know I've said this before and this may be starting to sound like a broken record, but when a Pentax official emailed me a response saying that Pentax would bring a crop sensor to the market this year that would give a full frame a run for it's money. I honestly thought he was being generous

This falls right in line with my own personal tests with some K-r RAW files. Which showed an immense latitude in the shadow/exposure recovery end of things. Which seem cleaner even, than with a D700 file.
09-15-2010, 05:13 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steelski Quote
Check this sample out if you are interested.
D7000 high iso sample. is it as good as D700? : Nikon D3 - D1 / D700 Forum: Digital Photography Review

But also read the comment from the next poster (the first response)
About a stop difference.

The K-x is a stop and a bit difference to the D700 from what I can make out in Imaging resources comparison.

So, ballpark we are talking about similar performance to the K-x, but at 16MP.

So about the level of the Canon 5D.
That is great. Then we have a camera with significantly better image quality than the D700, with only one stop disadvantage at the highest ISO in terms of noise. From image quality alone you must have rather specialized interest to prefer the D700...

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 09-15-2010 at 05:25 PM.
09-15-2010, 05:43 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
That is great. Then we have a camera with significantly better image quality than the D700, with only one stop disadvantage at the highest ISO in terms of noise. From image quality alone you must have rather specialized interest to prefer the D700...
Where?!?

Iso performance is just a small part of FF sensor advantages. 100% pixel is another one, I am still wishing an APS-C can someday deliver such results. And not even talking about DR, which is mainly dependant of sensor size (dixit our master Mr Falk).
09-18-2010, 10:42 AM   #29
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APS sensors are getting better, this is a good thing but so will FF, the real advantage of FF soon will be resolution and DOF all things begin equal. Trust me once you go FF it's hard to go back and noise is only part of it. Also when it comes to noise do remember that it is measured at a per pixel level, so if you have a 16 mp sensor with the same noise as a 21 mp one, pixel peeping it looks the same but that 5 mp extra rez will give you more crop and print abilities. I can make great 17x22" prints from my K20D now but I can make better ones from my 5D when cropped or print bigger ( ya 17x22 is all I can do on my setup ).

Do also note that the R&D that goes into aps sensors will be applied to ff ones soon after, with 150% more area to fill with equal performing pixels FF will have an advantage, or keep the pixels bigger and improve DR and noise. Either way it does justify the premium of FF over APS. Now beyond just noise again personally I was never impressed with the D700 other than noise and performance, over all IQ wasn't all there and with modern noise reduction software ( the nik define plugin for example ) can really negate the noise issue as well making dr and resolution even more important but also pixel level sharpness.

I can ramble on forever on this but lets say yes it's a huge step forward but it's not crushing the D700 or 5D, yet.

Last edited by Torphoto; 09-18-2010 at 11:03 AM.
09-18-2010, 11:04 AM   #30
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Does it really matter that APS-C will never catch up with FF and will always lag behind. There come a point when further advancements become less important.

I have had my 5D for 5 years and while I keep looking at upgrading my FF, I have yet to find a real need for what I do. The next generation of FF might provide enough of an improvement for me to finally retire the 5D, but if I had a APS-C camera that gave me the same quality of files as my 5D I would be very happy.

When you figure in the improvements of RAW converters there have been some big improvements.
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