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09-18-2010, 11:25 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I was told several months ago that the new Sony sensors would finally match or exceed my FF Canon 5D. I think that is a real possibility, and the Canon 5D has an excellent sensor.

I do not see the new sensor matching the D3.

I think the most important thing will be DR. Better DR allows for the capture of more detail which can have a very big impact on the image.
I hope DR is the next thing that DSLR companies set their eyes on

QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Economies of scale is a force of nature when it comes to semiconductor manufacturing and APS-C sensors have a critical mass that makes R&D much higher for APS-C vs. FF. Look at x86 vs. RISC, the sheer volume fabbed means that APS-C will be able to make a leap and a bound in the time it takes FF to leap.
Good point

09-18-2010, 05:03 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonson PL Quote
I hope DR is the next thing that DSLR companies set their eyes on
There will come the moment where the image is digitally accumulated on the sensor, using on-chip A/D converters and ~50MB on-chip memory. At this moment, DR can be made arbitrarily large by allowing for as low Iso steps as the user wants ( like Iso 1).
09-18-2010, 05:39 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
There will come the moment where the image is digitally accumulated on the sensor, using on-chip A/D converters and ~50MB on-chip memory. At this moment, DR can be made arbitrarily large by allowing for as low Iso steps as the user wants ( like Iso 1).
This will happen when we stop pushing the megapixels up (for no good reason, IMHO).

I'd bet we could already start doing that sort of thing if one sensor developer decided to stop at 10 megapixels and just perfect IQ at that size. Nikon + Sony sort of did that, and we got some of the highest quality IQ from 12 megapixels sensors.

Unfortunately, they seem to be moving to more megapixels instead of continuing to refine quality at 12.

From my experience with the K20d, I can say that 14 megapixels is just kind of silly for common print sizes, and I would prefer lower noise or more dynamic range over this almost useless resolution.

As long as Pentax stays in business though, I'll be a happy camper. Even with the "subpar" noise of the K20D... there's not much my pictures lack (except in low light or high contrast conditions).... so in a few years when the camera bites the dust, I have very high hopes for where the technology will be headed.

Just, Pentax, please stay in business.
09-18-2010, 05:50 PM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by paperbag846 Quote
This will happen when we stop pushing the megapixels up (for no good reason, IMHO).

I'd bet we could already start doing that sort of thing if one sensor developer decided to stop at 10 megapixels and just perfect IQ at that size. Nikon + Sony sort of did that, and we got some of the highest quality IQ from 12 megapixels sensors.

Unfortunately, they seem to be moving to more megapixels instead of continuing to refine quality at 12.

From my experience with the K20d, I can say that 14 megapixels is just kind of silly for common print sizes, and I would prefer lower noise or more dynamic range over this almost useless resolution.

As long as Pentax stays in business though, I'll be a happy camper. Even with the "subpar" noise of the K20D... there's not much my pictures lack (except in low light or high contrast conditions).... so in a few years when the camera bites the dust, I have very high hopes for where the technology will be headed.

Just, Pentax, please stay in business.

I am pretty happy with the high ISO settings on my K20D, compared to the K10D, but admit they are not up to par with the current competition. The MP count is important if you are a heavy cropper.....and I am a crop addict. If a shot doesn't need cropping, I crop it anyhow just to keep in practice, and all those MP come in very handy!
Regards!

09-18-2010, 06:35 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by jjdgti Quote
Only time will tell. The next generation of FF sensors will be great. Maybe Pentax will get and that wagon.
although, if the cropped sensor can compete with existing full frame sensors, isn't the need for full frame reduced? I'm not saying there aren't advantages, but that advantage seems to be getting much smaller with each improvement of the cropped sensors
09-19-2010, 03:01 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
According to the Nikon website: Nikon | News | Digital-SLR camera Nikon D7000

The D7000 sensor is a: 23.6 x 15.6 mm CMOS sensor, which is right in line with the Sony part specifications.



Based on this information, I would say there is a very good chance(98%) that they are the same part.
I would go as far as to say closer to 100% sure.
09-19-2010, 05:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiet70 Quote
although, if the cropped sensor can compete with existing full frame sensors, isn't the need for full frame reduced? I'm not saying there aren't advantages, but that advantage seems to be getting much smaller with each improvement of the cropped sensors
Um , major flaw in you reasoning here.... If APS can improve, so can FF.
FF people wil stick to FF. Will demand more....
I cannot see a FF shooters aying "let's go back to APS as it is better than my FF of a few years ago" That would be like admitting defeat to those who said "APS development is't over yet"
09-19-2010, 01:22 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Economies of scale is a force of nature when it comes to semiconductor manufacturing and APS-C sensors have a critical mass that makes R&D much higher for APS-C vs. FF. Look at x86 vs. RISC, the sheer volume fabbed means that APS-C will be able to make a leap and a bound in the time it takes FF to leap.
That would be true if FF and APS were really different technologies. But they're not, they're just sensor sizes. If someone figures out how to make a better APS sensor, then that someone can also just make a larger one using the same technology and they will get a FF sensor with higher pixel count

09-19-2010, 05:19 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
hehe, if current FF was good enough for FF fanboys.....
Laughable - seeing as if there's any "fanboys," it's APS-C fanboys, like the ones crowing over the rumored performance of a camera that hasn't even been announced yet being a big deal because it supposedly will equal the performance of a three-year-old FF camera, when reality (if one bothers to look at pics from the same Sony sensor in the SLT-A55 review on IR) is that the new Sony sensor is not the equal of the Nikon D3 sensor when comparing the APS-C 400 ISO shot with the Nikon 6400 ISO shot, much less is it close at higher ISOs. You are free, however, to continue rationalizing if it makes you feel better.

QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. Economies of scale is a force of nature when it comes to semiconductor manufacturing and APS-C sensors have a critical mass that makes R&D much higher for APS-C vs. FF. Look at x86 vs. RISC, the sheer volume fabbed means that APS-C will be able to make a leap and a bound in the time it takes FF to leap.
By that brilliant logic, thumbnail sensors should blow away APS-C by now. Sensor technology is not confined to specific sensor sizes, and never will be. APS-C is not as good as full frame, and never will be.

QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Um , major flaw in you reasoning here.... If APS can improve, so can FF.
FF people wil stick to FF. Will demand more....
I cannot see a FF shooters aying "let's go back to APS as it is better than my FF of a few years ago" That would be like admitting defeat to those who said "APS development is't over yet"
I can't see FF shooters going back to APS-C even if they could get APS-C image quality to be equal (which they have not and will not). Why go back to a viewfinder that sucks?

QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
That would be true if FF and APS were really different technologies. But they're not, they're just sensor sizes. If someone figures out how to make a better APS sensor, then that someone can also just make a larger one using the same technology and they will get a FF sensor with higher pixel count
Agreed. Development of sensor technology is not specific to format, and APS-C will never overcome the laws of physics to have superior image quality over the FF format.

Sorry to burst any bubbles!
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