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09-22-2010, 01:13 AM   #316
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenn100D Quote

K-5 with Mic
QuoteOriginally posted by CaymanImaging Quote
The K5 looks nice. I skipped the K7 waiting for something AWESOME. While it looks nice, I'm still not sold on it yet mainly because I want to hear reviews from production models and then I'll make up my mind. More than likely I will get it.

Anyhow, I did voice OUR concerns for simple upgrades that could be made (I think) via software to Pentax USA in an email. I doubt that I'll get answer from them as I'm still waiting for tech help that I emailed a month ago. Their customer service just sucks

Here's what I wrote them:

"I am a professional photographer using all Pentax gear (K20D). I skipped the K7 waiting for the K5. But as a pro, I'm not overly excited about it. My biggest problem is lack of tethering. I highly suggest that Pentax look at all the complaints on The Largest Pentax Camera & Photography Forum - Pentax News & Rumors - PentaxForums.com Home and try to please some of us with updates that could be done with software updates. I don't want to go to a new brand, but may start thinking about it."
I wrote several letters (including one traditional letter) regarding some of the failings of the K20D (what I consider an almost perfect camera). I was especially incensed that they missed the mark again (with the K7) by ignoring the simplest programming tweak of allowing DFS to be turned off. I mentioned many of the other common issues as well (including tethering).

Only one of my emails received a reply and the response regarding DFS was that it was necessary to produce the best possible image. Pentax completely ignored or did not understand my explanation why forced DFS make these cameras useless for exposures longer than 8 seconds (on K20D).

Like the K7, my excitement for the K5 is quickly wearing out; but I will hold out for the dust to settle and read a few official production reviews.

09-22-2010, 01:46 AM   #317
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QuoteOriginally posted by Indecent Exposure Quote
What bothers me with all of you is the all the squib and complaint about about the K-5. When one looks at the image sensor and especially the very high ISO, how many of us have pitched a b@tch about ISO in low light?

Having some experience with the pre-release body from my Pentax rep.

It looks like Pentax did a pretty darned good job on the K-5. We all knew this model was being brought forward. Let's embrace it for it's quality. It "is" one heck of a great camera body. Quite frankly there are very few negatives about this product.

Personally I am moving forward and embracing the technology and what it will do for my photographic work.

Gosh darn how the hell in the world did Ansel Adams create? He worked at it and I am no way near Ansel Adams caliber of work. Lord help us if he had this extraordinary tool in his hands. He would have put us all to shame.

Work is a four letter word. Most do not care to embrace that.

There are two types of individuals in the working world. Workers and complainers.

Where do you reside in the scope of things and your photographic work?


Respectfully,

InDE
With all due respect, I find your comments somewhat arrogant and disrespectful to those whom are affected by potential short comings, that Pentax may not have addressed with the K5.

Two items in particular, forced DFS and the lack of tethering truly do affect certain photographers. These two issues, in particular, cannot be circumvented by improving our skills. Such [modest] features are needs, not wishes, or nice to haves for some. Without these improvements, the K5 is not a viable upgrade. Speaking of DFS, this is a relatively simple software change, but it appears that Pentax doesn't listen or understand its importance to perhaps 1/2 their customer base.

Your reference to Ansel Adams is an interesting one but flawed one. Ansel Adams combined perfection of technique with a perfect instrument (for his purposes). If we were discussing complaints specifically about shake reduction, auto focus speeds, lack of focus points or program modes.... then I would completely agree with your post!
09-22-2010, 01:52 AM   #318
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I am not very into videography, but isn't motion jpeg much better choice for editing than editing h264 encoded stuff? h264 is good for final material, not for the "raw" video which needs to be cut, processed, etc.
Actually, I don't really care that much whether it is h.264 or mjpeg... as long as they did not select qtime. :-)

Seriously though, the bigger part of my point is that I wish Pentax would focus more on their roots (building super nice cameras aimed at the aspiring pros), instead of this "me too" or one-upsmanship nonsense. The Canon D60 has video so Pentax has to add it, or lets add more mega pixels because more mega pixels means a better camera nonsense.

I question how much was sacrificed in order to add the less than stunning video capability?
09-22-2010, 02:23 AM   #319
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QuoteOriginally posted by Indecent Exposure Quote
When and where, did you come of the opinion and be "qualified" of determining Ansel Adams. "Action Photo's"?

Did he ever take one? Be very careful about your answer on this one. I am his granddaughter.
Read the post I am referring to.

09-22-2010, 03:11 AM   #320
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QuoteOriginally posted by andi Quote
25fps in 1080p mode really s@cks. Why not to do 24/25fps selection?
I really agree with you! Would make the camera more usuabe in more areas of the world. They have 24fps on the kx so I would think this would be easy. I would also think they would have 30fps (especially since the k7 has it).

come on Pentax.. help us out here.
09-22-2010, 03:43 AM   #321
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But can't a modern TV play both 24 and 25 (and 30) fps?
09-22-2010, 04:34 AM   #322
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QuoteOriginally posted by Edvinas Quote
I am not very into videography, but isn't motion jpeg much better choice for editing than editing h264 encoded stuff? h264 is good for final material, not for the "raw" video which needs to be cut, processed, etc.
I think you are right. MJPEG is older and has larger files, but can deliver higher quality than H.264 (it's not as highly compressed as H.264). We just have to buy a bigger memory card... but I am happy with MJPEG. The frame rate is the problem. Any computer can play these new 25fps video files, but if you try to edit them it could be a big problem.

I see the situation where I want to edit some of the videos together, or even add them to some other video that I have. All my other video (and my editing software) is 24fps (actually 23.98) or 30fps (actually 29.97). So I will have to convert the 25fps video if I want to do anything with it other than just view it on a computer. It would be really nice if they give us the choice. Or send the correct frame rate to the correct country. They obviously have different language versions. Why not include the correct video frame rate with the appropriate language firmware. The K-7 has 30fps and the K-X has 24fps so I would hope these new cameras (K-5 and K-R) could have those added on as well.
09-22-2010, 05:01 AM   #323
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote

Like the K7, my excitement for the K5 is quickly wearing out; but I will hold out for the dust to settle and read a few official production reviews.
=======================================

So far, the K5 is not meeting upgrade expectations of a majority of faithful Pentax users (pro and amateurs). Their marketing and research teams may not have another chance to convince other brand users to switch, or loyal Pentaxians to remain so.

Where I see the frustration is Hoya not listneing to the North American market and overpricing the new bodies in comparison to Canon and Nikon, feature for feature.

JMO

09-22-2010, 05:23 AM   #324
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There is hope for all the non-optional DFS afflicted. Falconeye just quoted someone stating "I switched it of and used bulb for more then 30seconds, next picture in <1sec. Of course this refers to firmware 0.30 (or earlier?) so a lot could change till the final release.

@pentaxmz: I think Pentax understood your request. They are right in that no DFS at all will yield bad image quality. What they probably should have acknowledged is that you want to do the DFS yourself (taking one dark frame for a number of subsequent real shots). To the best of my knowledge no noise reduction can yield the same quality as a proper DFS and strictly speaking taking a dark frame for each image is the best possible solution as the temperature and thus the dark noise can change over a series of shots. Taking less dark frames is a compromise, albeit often a very workable one.

P.S.: @Indecent Exposure, Arpe knows more about Ansel Adams than you think.

Last edited by Class A; 09-22-2010 at 05:28 AM.
09-22-2010, 05:41 AM   #325
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rite Quote
So far, the K5 is not meeting upgrade expectations of a majority of faithful Pentax users (pro and amateurs).
I don't think its wise to use the word "majority" in such contexts without relying on actual market research. I don't think I'm alone (and maybe not in minority either?), as a K10D user, in viewing the K-5 as a near perfect upgrade of my current camera.

QuoteQuote:
Where I see the frustration is Hoya not listneing to the North American market and overpricing the new bodies in comparison to Canon and Nikon, feature for feature.
Something is really wrong with the US prices when they're way above the prices in The Most Outrageously Expensive Country In The World, i.e. Norway, where I live. In fact, B&H so far charges 20% more for the K-5 body than one of the Norwegian web shops... I'm rather used to B&H charging as much as 42% LESS (example: DA12-24 )
09-22-2010, 06:06 AM   #326
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I don't think its wise to use the word "majority" in such contexts without relying on actual market research. I don't think I'm alone (and maybe not in minority either?), as a K10D user, in viewing the K-5 as a near perfect upgrade of my current camera.
I have both the K10D and K-x. I find myself going back to the K10D quite often.

QuoteQuote:
Something is really wrong with the US prices when they're way above the prices in The Most Outrageously Expensive Country In The World, i.e. Norway, where I live. In fact, B&H so far charges 20% more for the K-5 body than one of the Norwegian web shops... I'm rather used to B&H charging as much as 42% LESS (example: DA12-24 )
The K5 price point is going to really hurt their market in North America, IMO. I got the K10D and K-x both just as they hit the market, and am not sorry I was an early supporter on those two models (which both saved Pentax from going under, BTW).

I'm not going to take the same approach with the K5. I'm not liking the attitude Hoya is taking with their North American market, and if they expect to keep it, they had better give it more DEDICATED support, not just an afterthought. Also, they had better do their market research VERY WELL for North America on the K5. Both Nikon and Canon are offering cameras with very similar features for hundreds less.

JMO
09-22-2010, 06:24 AM   #327
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I think a very big mistake from Pentax is they don't announce the K5 as a professional camera. Olympus did that with their E-5.

I cannot see why the marketing of Pentax is afraid of naming their cameras "professional". At this price, with all the futures that it has, high iso, faster AF, extremely well build and so on - it has no reason not to be named as a professional camera.

Olympus in their press release said about the E5 : "rigorous demands of professional photographers", "reliability and professional image quality" and so on.

Why Pentax is SO AFRAID to say something like this ? I think a bold statement like this would have a big positive image impact for Pentax. Because everybody else who isn't a pentaxian thinks Pentax cannot be a professional camera - so is only for "advance amateurs" because even Pentax said so
09-22-2010, 06:34 AM   #328
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rite Quote
So far, the K5 is not meeting upgrade expectations of a majority of faithful Pentax users (pro and amateurs).
My take on things is that a very vocal minority of users on internet discussion forums are disappointed because their pet feature is not included in the spec sheet. That is very different from "a majority of faithful Pentax users".

IMHO as well.
09-22-2010, 06:53 AM   #329
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QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
My take on things is that a very vocal minority of users on internet discussion forums are disappointed because their pet feature is not included in the spec sheet. That is very different from "a majority of faithful Pentax users".
+1. Pentax addressed the most important weaknesses of the K-7: High ISO and AF. The perfect camera will never exist (the first company doing it would probably go under very quickly if they cannot offer an upgrade every few months . Speaking about myself the tethering (never used it on my K10D & K20D) and DFS have no interests to me. I'm more concerned about the lack of an articulated LCD. But I understand I cannot have it all.
09-22-2010, 07:25 AM   #330
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"I think a very big mistake from Pentax is they don't announce the K5 as a professional camera. Olympus did that with their E-5."

Cameras are not professional; those who use them might be.
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