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09-21-2010, 11:07 PM   #181
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We get Photokina reports from Falk so they are obviously there. Why is it that Dpreview has show reports from all the brands except Pentax. Even Ricoh, Fuji and Kodak, who, even if they have new releases, don't have anything nearly as interesting as the K-r and K-5. I know the (overpriced) Fuji camera is cool but it still doesn't explain the absence of Pentax reports. Is it Pentax marketing that is sleeping? Or is Dpreview ignoring Pentax for some reason?

/Tommy

09-21-2010, 11:13 PM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommy Quote
We get Photokina reports from Falk so they are obviously there. Why is it that Dpreview has show reports from all the brands except Pentax. Even Ricoh, Fuji and Kodak, who, even if they have new releases, don't have anything nearly as interesting as the K-r and K-5. I know the (overpriced) Fuji camera is cool but it still doesn't explain the absence of Pentax reports. Is it Pentax marketing that is sleeping? Or is Dpreview ignoring Pentax for some reason?

/Tommy
Give them a break. They just started reporting, you can't report on everything the first day. And yes, Pentax is a small and not very exiting manufacturer (my mouth waters at the sight of the K-5, but it's nothing groundbreaking) at the moment, so it would make sense for them to head for other stands first.
09-21-2010, 11:21 PM   #183
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It is not true that Dpreview has "covered all the brands" except Pentax.
Olympus is not covered either, and many other companies.
It seems like they take a few stands each day, to cover them fully. No need to rush to all stands the same day, better to explore each stand in deep, taking pictures, asking questions, writing articles...

No need to worry. I expect both Olympus and Pentax be covered today.
They have just posted about Nikon stand... so now they are moving on to the next one.
09-21-2010, 11:23 PM   #184
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Did you notice the Canon EOS 60D commercial?
- For some reason that just might be the best camera...

09-21-2010, 11:38 PM   #185
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
It is not true that Dpreview has "covered all the brands" except Pentax.
Olympus is not covered either, and many other companies.
It seems like they take a few stands each day, to cover them fully. No need to rush to all stands the same day, better to explore each stand in deep, taking pictures, asking questions, writing articles...

No need to worry. I expect both Olympus and Pentax be covered today.
They have just posted about Nikon stand... so now they are moving on to the next one.
I forgot about Olympus! I guess I'm just eager to see more from the Pentax stand and was worried to see all those brands listed and Pentax, with the IMO, great new K-5, not listed. I guess I thought Pentax should be one of the first (and not one of the last) since they had a major announcement on monday. I will give them a break ( a short one at least).

/Tommy
09-21-2010, 11:48 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
It is not true that Dpreview has "covered all the brands" except Pentax.
Olympus is not covered either, and many other companies.


No need to worry. I expect both Olympus and Pentax be covered today.
They have just posted about Nikon stand... so now they are moving on to the next one.
Olympus is out of DSLR bussiness. E-5 is the last body of 4/3 system.
09-22-2010, 12:05 AM   #187
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No. They clearly stated they will make more FT bodies, just likely without mirror. They also said they won't be making any more FT lenses, instead concentrating on mFT.
09-22-2010, 12:17 AM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiet70 Quote
Looks comparable to ISO 400 on my K10D...

I think I need another napkin to wipe away the drool!
Not if you shoot with iso 400 in plenty of light, try it outside in daylight and it looks pretty good actually.

09-22-2010, 12:19 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Olympus is out of DSLR bussiness. E-5 is the last body of 4/3 system.
This is relevant how?
09-22-2010, 12:53 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by fzwo Quote
No. They clearly stated they will make more FT bodies, just likely without mirror. They also said they won't be making any more FT lenses, instead concentrating on mFT.
A Four Thirds body without a mirror is not a Four Thirds body. Or at least, not one that makes any sense whatsoever. Simply removing the mirror doesn't make the camera magically much smaller or lighter -- as proven by the Sony SLT-series cameras, which aren't really any smaller than the most compact APS-C DSLRs on the market -- so there's no significant advantage to removing the mirror in terms of size and weight. (For reference, the Sony A55V is 1.5mm shorter than the Pentax K-x, 2.5mm wider, and actually about ~6-8mm deeper than the K-x even if you ignore the projecting electronic viewfinder -- so the K-x is actually significantly smaller despite basically the same sensor size, and the inclusion of a reflex mirror.)

Since you're retaining the same Four Thirds lens mount, you have to accommodate the back focus distance of existing Four Thirds lenses, so you've got to leave much the same space between the rear of the lens and the image sensor itself as if you had a reflex mirror. This allows only a relatively small savings in weight and size by removing the mirror drive mechanism, and perhaps the viewfinder and a couple of sensors if you go with LCD-only live view, using the sensor itself for AF and metering. Most of the bulk of the camera body is unchanged.

I'm really questioning that Olympus statement, and its translation. The timing, right after launching a brand new body, seems to make absolutely no sense. Nor does the assertion that they'd make more bodies, but not any new glass to go with them. (You don't make your money on sales of bodies -- you make it on sales of proprietary glass and accessories once the body's been purchased.)

I don't speak Spanish and hence don't understand the subtleties that are lost in machine translation, but my feeling is perhaps the interview intended to say that Four Thirds was on the back burner, rather than that development of lenses for the format had ceased entirely and permanently.

I won't be surprised in the least if a clarification or retraction is issued, although the damage may already be done regardless.
09-22-2010, 01:08 AM   #191
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dpreview server seems to be down / overloaded

10 minutes later again OK

Last edited by JoepLX3; 09-22-2010 at 01:19 AM.
09-22-2010, 01:09 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Simply removing the mirror doesn't make the camera magically much smaller or lighter -- as proven by the Sony SLT-series cameras, which aren't really any smaller than the most compact APS-C DSLRs on the market -- so there's no significant advantage to removing the mirror in terms of size and weight.
Hmm.... The Sony DOES have a mirror!
Pentaxprism weighs a lot more than an electronic display. So yes, removing the mirror and pentaprism should automatically make the camera smaller and lighter - and more importantly, cheaper to manufacture.
09-22-2010, 01:17 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Hmm.... The Sony DOES have a mirror!
Pentaxprism weighs a lot more than an electronic display. So yes, removing the mirror and pentaprism should automatically make the camera smaller and lighter - and more importantly, cheaper to manufacture.
But not always better...
09-22-2010, 01:23 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
Hmm.... The Sony DOES have a mirror!
Pentaxprism weighs a lot more than an electronic display. So yes, removing the mirror and pentaprism should automatically make the camera smaller and lighter - and more importantly, cheaper to manufacture.
Yes, it has a translucent mirror which is fixed in place during exposure. No, removing that mirror would not make it smaller. The back focus distance of the lens is unchanged. To change the back focus distance would require optics in the camera body, which would take up some space and increase weight, as well as reducing image quality.

Had Sony made a new lens mount for the A55, they could've reduced back focus distance and body size, since the mirror doesn't swing behind the lens (and also, has a steeper tilt angle than a reflex mirror would.) Of course, it would've also meant they couldn't claim backward compatibility with existing lenses, effectively hobbling the format by requiring SLT owners to buy all new glass -- and so they chose to stick with the existing mount, and a less significant size and weight advantage over what was possible.

Re: the viewfinder, I did note that "This allows only a relatively small savings in weight and size by removing the mirror drive mechanism, and perhaps the viewfinder and a couple of sensors if you go with LCD-only live view, using the sensor itself for AF and metering."

Of course, you can include an EVF, as Sony did, if you don't mind the extra weight. You'll still save some weight compared to a pentaprism viewfinder, but not as much as if you get rid of the viewfinder altogether. Ditto cost. Although frankly, I don't know that a decent electronic viewfinder would be necessarily cheaper than a pentaprism viewfinder of similar image quality. Certainly I doubt that an EVF would be cheaper than a pentamirror VF.

Point is, removing the reflex mirror doesn't necessarily bring a huge advantage in size, weight, or cost -- UNLESS you also design a new lens mount and optics to go along with it.

In other words, if you want to retain compatibility with your existing glass, there's little point doing away with the mirror, unless (like Sony) you're doing it for some other reason -- in their case, to allow phase detect AF in live view and movie capture.

Last edited by knoxploration; 09-22-2010 at 01:29 AM.
09-22-2010, 01:36 AM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
ISO 6400, DNG developped in LR2 with all settings default
Looks good to me. However, I wonder what LR3 would do to it considering greatly improved noise reduction algorithms. Any chance to test with LR3 (or to upload RAW for someone with LR3 to test)?
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