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09-24-2010, 09:29 PM   #391
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Maybe Hoya has planes to sale Pentax?

If we compare promotion of K10D, K20D and K-7,
it's easy to say that K-5's promotion is absolutely FAILED!!!

It's absolutely clear that Pentax can't offer FF in the next 2 year.
wow....Pentax is going to have their own air fleet? cool!! typos are fun!!

09-24-2010, 09:31 PM   #392
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Just a word of thanks to Falk for providing the information he has given to date. Many of us are interested in the K5 and he has been a good and trusted source at this early stage of the announcement.
Best Regards!
09-24-2010, 09:33 PM   #393
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
1. I don't think so. I didn't see the corresponding option in the menu but didn't search for it. Anyway, I find the green AF assist light disturbing and I am happy it doesn't switch on except in real dark.
That's fine for you, but having the option for me is better than no option at all, But i thank you for your confirmation.

QuoteQuote:
3. Officially, raw is raw (ie., no NR). But according to DxO, Pentax somehow manipulates the raw files at ISO > 1600.
Not sure about Dx0, but the Pentax manual states as much, and my K-7 has a menu for NR which doesn't allow OFF, its allows options for 400/800/1600 ISO before it kicks in. I was wondering if the new sensor would affect which ISO those menu options kick in.

Thanks for the clarification.
09-24-2010, 09:44 PM   #394
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Let's not go off topic in this thread- please refer to the other thread!


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09-24-2010, 09:47 PM   #395
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QuoteOriginally posted by brecklundin Quote
wow....Pentax is going to have their own air fleet? cool!! typos are fun!!
yes.


Several mens tried K-5 with beta-firmware in shop of Pentax Russia...
Almost the same AF in low-light as K-7. AF fidgets with DA*300/4.
09-25-2010, 01:06 AM   #396
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
Photokina, incorrect information etc has all really got me wondering what on Earth Pentax is doing?
Umm, it has people talking about Pentax , so it gives exposure...
I have from reliable sources that pentax is doing very well in at least one department, Pentax carrying bags are among the most wanted items this year.

And a few days ago, photokina was a topic on Dutch television news (not much happening in the world I guess). Only item was the Epson Red Sea Project and what was clearly vivible was that the poeple looking at the direct link were sitting on Pentax seats.
09-25-2010, 03:00 AM   #397
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
Umm, it has people talking about Pentax , so it gives exposure...
I have from reliable sources that pentax is doing very well in at least one department, Pentax carrying bags are among the most wanted items this year.

And a few days ago, photokina was a topic on Dutch television news (not much happening in the world I guess). Only item was the Epson Red Sea Project and what was clearly vivible was that the poeple looking at the direct link were sitting on Pentax seats.
I was at that Red Sea project at the time that someone from the audience was invited to go in an grab a Pentax Optio W90 from the bottom of the tank and take it home (good price to win). All we have is a video to watch. Taken with the K-7 and the DA40mm.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntiIMQxweCU[/YT]
Good price, but then there is also an audience to watch.
09-25-2010, 03:25 AM   #398
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Maybe Hoya has plans to sale Pentax?
In that case they shouldn't appear to run down the brand first.

Everyone seems surprised that Penatax marketing isn't great but it never has in the past years, has it? OK, it might have turned worse a bit but there wasn't much ground to lose to begin with.

I hope the K-r and K-5 will be successes and then it won't matter how bumpy the K-5 marketing was in the beginning.

09-25-2010, 03:36 AM   #399
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I guess when the times are hard, they lay off the marketing section and somebody's grandmother does it on the side.
09-25-2010, 05:46 AM - 3 Likes   #400
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QuoteOriginally posted by emr Quote
I guess when the times are hard, they lay off the marketing section and somebody's grandmother does it on the side.
No. It's more difficult than that.
Since this forum is full of marketing gurus, I'm surprised no one has chewed his up correctly yet.
Any company can do a better job in PR, and that's why Pentax has gotten an all new PR partner, as announced few days before Photokina. And they didn't invite any expert from you here, luckily.

The reasons for confusion re K-5 are few: very tight lips of Hoya, keeping cards close to chest till the very last moment, and unexpected happening just before Photokina -- Nikon's D7000.

Nikon has dropped a bomb no one expected. It left Canon bezerked with their 60D, and it left Pentax in a limbo. They weren't sure how to advertise the product because of the D7000. They have surely had a plan how to proceed, but D7000 changed the approach. They needed to respond, and still not to kill the sales or even the good impression about the brand new product.

First the price: almost all of you and DPR folks started whinging about alleged price of $1599. K-5 is a D300s class camera, and D300s successor will undoubtedly cost more. But little rats demand that K-5 which looks similar to D7000 must match that price.

Then there are specs. Because both cameras share same sensor, people pre-assume image quality must be 'same', thus forgetting all the other details. Today that all what matters: ISO noise, sensor and price. All else is irrelevant for this new breed of modern digital 'photographers'. Some details of the Nikon system work in favour of D7000, some in favour of K-5, but in any case, K-5 does cost more to produce because it does have a better constructed / expensive body, IS.

Communicating back and forth within teams and deciding about prices is not an easy thing, esp. very last moment. That's why K-5 got an ISO bump in the last minute, from planned ISO 12800 to ISO 51200 (perhaps technically possible, and to calibrated before production begins), to beat D7000 at least in some visible specs (D7000 specs and prices were announced publicly, thus set in stone).

Competition is not easy and some players are playing this game in an unpredictable way. Nikon wants to smudge borders between certain camera models / ranges and forcing direct competitors to drop into the lower band by forcing a lower price on a similar set of some specs. It is all a matter of perception, and Nikon is playing well in the field of perception because they lead the game of 'digital shooters' taste -- low noise, HiISO. They can skim a lot by carefully engineering a camera with lower value that appears to be of higher spec in areas digital shooters expect. As said above, same sensor and similar construction (albeit weaker, but never explicitly told by the press) works in favour of Nikon, but not in favour of Pentax.

If Nikon gets K-5 eliminated by competing with D7000, and Canon out of game by eliminating its 60D with the same camera, then they can place D400 'above' and charge even more for it because they'd add something that 'sounds' like an improvement and advertise just that and let all of you work for them. You're Nikon's PR team -- they don't need hire no one else. You force Pentax to work hard for a dime, and allow Nikon to work less for more $, by mudding the waters and avoiding real innovations where others excel.

This all happens silently, and with an approval and applause from the blind audience. They don't care what they get exactly, as long as it 'sounds' similar. But whole of life is in details; that's why, sadly, today's photography has more bangs than life. Cameras are instantly shot dead before even announced and you did that with K-5.

Blind little whingers expect that, to pay less and less for more and more, and because some manufacturers have no enough camera models for the competition, they are forced to comply to the price war in the category their competitors are creating for them -- not true market needs or real abilities of the system + camera equation.

If consumers understood what is the total value of the camera plus system uniqueness, all this would be a non-issue and would never happen.
But they understand just nothing.

Last edited by Uluru; 09-25-2010 at 06:30 AM.
09-25-2010, 06:20 AM   #401
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I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians.
It was nice!

K5
- The sensor of the K5 ids good! It is probably about 2 EV better than the K20/K7.
- AF is not faster with SDM lenses. I have tested this.
- It was shooting 7 RAWs in a row.

18-135
- very nice built
- nobody at Pentax knew what DC means
- AF is ok.

DA35
- no colored ones outside of Japan

other:
- no tele above 500mm. It's not possible for Pentax. Unprofitable.
- no info on other lenses
- FA Limited are discontinued
- no FF in sight, definitely not in 2011, probably also not in 2012.
- perhaps there will be a 3rd party grip for the Kr.
- the high prices are defined in Japan. Pentax outside of Japan cannot change them.
- the market in the USA/Canada is a nothing to Pentax, only France and Germany count besides Japan.

Images:

M135 with Novoflex on Sony Nex:


Oops:


Zeiss accepted to produce a new lens line for Pentax:



Some German menus:
09-25-2010, 06:45 AM   #402
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Thanks for the report, blende8! FA limiteds are discontinued? I really hope that means new lenses to replace them. Maybe even WR remake of (some of) the 3 amigos.
At the minimum the need something wide-ish and fast.
09-25-2010, 06:46 AM   #403
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No. It's more difficult than that.
Since this forum is full of marketing gurus, I'm surprised no one has chewed his up correctly yet.
Any company can do a better job in PR, and that's why Pentax has gotten an all new PR partner, as announced few days before Photokina. And they didn't invite any expert from you here, luckily.

The reasons for confusion re K-5 are few: very tight lips of Hoya, keeping cards close to chest till the very last moment, and unexpected happening just before Photokina -- Nikon's D7000.

Nikon has dropped a bomb no one expected. It left Canon bezerked with their 60D, and it left Pentax in a limbo. They weren't sure how to advertise the product because of the D7000. They have surely had a plan how to proceed, but D7000 changed the approach. They needed to respond, and still not to kill the sales or even the good impression about the brand new product.

First the price: almost all of you and DPR folks started whinging about alleged price of $1599. K-5 is a D300s class camera, and D300s successor will undoubtedly cost more. But little rats demand that K-5 which looks similar to D7000 must match that price.

Then there are specs. Because both cameras share same sensor, people pre-assume image quality must be 'same', thus forgetting all the other details. Today that all what matters: ISO noise, sensor and price. All else is irrelevant for this new breed of modern digital 'photographers'. Some details of the Nikon system work in favour of D7000, some in favour of K-5, but in any case, K-5 does cost more to produce because it does have a better constructed / expensive body, IS.

Communicating back and forth within teams and deciding about prices is not an easy thing, esp. very last moment. That's why K-5 got an ISO bump in the last minute, from planned ISO 12800 to ISO 51200 (perhaps technically possible, and to calibrated before production begins), to beat D7000 at least in some visible specs (D7000 specs and prices were announced publicly, thus set in stone).

Competition is not easy and some players are playing this game in an unpredictable way. Nikon wants to smudge borders between certain camera models / ranges and forcing direct competitors to drop into the lower band by forcing a lower price on a similar set of some specs. It is all a matter of perception, and Nikon is playing well in the field of perception because they lead the game of 'digital shooters' taste -- low noise, HiISO. They can skim a lot by carefully engineering a camera with lower value that appears to be of higher spec in areas digital shooters expect. As said above, same sensor and similar construction (albeit weaker, but never explicitly told by the press) works in favour of Nikon, but not in favour of Pentax.

If Nikon gets K-5 eliminated by competing with D7000, and Canon out of game by eliminating its 60D with the same camera, then they can place D400 'above' and charge even more for it because they'd add something that 'sounds' like an improvement and advertise just that and let all of you work for them. You're Nikon's PR team -- they don't need hire no one else. You force Pentax to work hard for a dime, and allow Nikon to work less for more $, by mudding the waters and avoiding real innovations where others excel.

This all happens silently, and with an approval and applause from the blind audience. They don't care what they get exactly, as long as it 'sounds' similar. But whole of life is in details; that's why, sadly, today's photography has more bangs than life. Cameras are instantly shot dead before even announced and you did that with K-5.

Blind little whingers expect that, to pay less and less for more and more, and because some manufacturers have no enough camera models for the competition, they are forced to comply to the price war in the category their competitors are creating for them -- not true market needs or real abilities of the system + camera equation.

If consumers understood what is the total value of the camera plus system uniqueness, all this would be a non-issue and would never happen.
But they understand just nothing.
100% correct. Very perceptive.
09-25-2010, 07:10 AM   #404
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote

other:
- no tele above 500mm. It's not possible for Pentax. Unprofitable.
- no info on other lenses
- FA Limited are discontinued
- no FF in sight, definitely not in 2011, probably also not in 2012.
- perhaps there will be a 3rd party grip for the Kr.
- the high prices are defined in Japan. Pentax outside of Japan cannot change them.
- the market in the USA/Canada is a nothing to Pentax, only France and Germany count besides Japan.
is there anything positive Pentax has to say to those invested in the brand? it seems like Pentax is doing less than just the bare minimum, they're actively retreating from the global market in front of our eyes.
09-25-2010, 07:11 AM   #405
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians.
It was nice!
.
.
.
- FA Limited are discontinued
Is Hoya trying to kill Pentax!?!?!? Looks the same as if Canon announced they will stop L lenses!
This photokina is a really good year for body announcement but a real communication fiasco!
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