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09-25-2010, 03:15 PM   #466
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
No, no, no, Falk, it wasn't in context with lead.
I asked about a long tele [...]
I didn't say it was in context with lead. I said it was in context with expensive lenses and your reply is confirming this. Thank You as my memory wasn't very precise. The lead argument was further down in the thread of discussion, that's correct. But I didn't say otherwise.

As for FA Ltds. being discontinued, I must say I wasn't around when that was said. I am seeking confirmation now.

We had a chat with a manager from Pentax Germany. But I am no friend of telegram style summaries of such conversations. There normally is a lot of subtext and w/o the proper context, all sorts of interpretation are possible.

Finally, Wieland (blende8) and myself did the SDM test. We agreed that the speed of the SDM motor has remained the same. We agreed too that at the given lighting situation the actual lens focus wheel turning time was by far the dominant part (DA*16-50). But he was also around when I said that I do see a K-5 advantage for very short focus wheel turning differences where focus turn time doesn't matter this much. In absolute terms, the difference was barely noticeable indeed. But I got the vague impression that the difference in relative terms was significant, maybe as large as 100%. We really need bad light or AF.C benchmarks and we have no idea how the result would turn out.

In practical terms and at the given lighting, both K-7 and K-5 focussed as fast as the SDM motor could shift the SDM lens.


Last edited by falconeye; 09-25-2010 at 03:38 PM.
09-25-2010, 03:20 PM   #467
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QuoteOriginally posted by kytra Quote
IF this is a business decision based on actual results and market research, then whatever some people will say, Pentax made a right decision.
Yes, because all business decisions are always correct. Obviously.

QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
To be honest, I see a lot more of these old FA lenses in the used gear stores than I ever do on people's cameras.
They sell from used inventories as fast as they are put there. Please point me to a large stock of used FA Limiteds to prove me wrong.
09-25-2010, 03:36 PM   #468
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
If this is true it is the stupidest thing Pentax could ever do! Forget gimmicks, forget numbers, forget gadgets... at the top level of photographic excellence the only reason to choose a brand is for their lenses with unique rendering power. Pentax has three of those: the FA 31 Limited, FA 43 Limited, FA77 Limited.
After thinking about it for a while... I don't think I believe this. The FA limiteds are very prominent in the latest japanese lens brochure from just a few months back (http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/catalog/pdf/lenses_accessories.pdf - warning, large pdf!). Note that the 16-45 is actually discontinued in Japan.

In addition, the FA43 Ltd. is one of the lenses showcased in the K-r simulator (????????????PENTAX K-r ??????????).
09-25-2010, 03:37 PM - 1 Like   #469
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
They sell from used inventories as fast as they are put there. Please point me to a large stock of used FA Limiteds to prove me wrong.
My friend if you can find me a market for them, I can round up dozens and dozens of the things from the used stores here in Tokyo. They're not cheap, but they're always in stock. By contrast, I can recall having seen two affixed to people's cameras in the five years I've lived here.

09-25-2010, 03:51 PM   #470
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
My friend if you can find me a market for them, I can round up dozens and dozens of the things from the used stores here in Tokyo. They're not cheap, but they're always in stock. By contrast, I can recall having seen two affixed to people's cameras in the five years I've lived here.
Well here in the Netherlands is not that easy to find. You cannot find a 43mm. So start selling some of those baby's in the used market in Europe.

But what you tell me, I can understand why production could be eliminated. What numbers are even produced on a year base?
09-25-2010, 04:04 PM   #471
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Any company can do a better job in PR, and that's why Pentax has gotten an all new PR partner, as announced few days before Photokina.
You make a lot of good points but if you were completely right, why did Pentax then use the amateurish Colorado video? If you are not ready to advertise your product you postpone the release of PR material instead of embarrasing yourself.

QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
The word is: No full-frame, no full-frame, no full-frame.
...
"Just use higher ISO."
That's how they think, no joke.
I believe that this is what you heard from the Pentax people over there. But don't we all know very well that these people have little clue what the actual decision makers in Japan are thinking/doing?

I don't understand why everyone here jumps at these negative news as if they had been signed with the blood of the Japanese engineers. I'm sure there is more to the story then we got through this very short telegram style report.

Regarding the FA Ltds.: Not sure that rumour is even true but if it is it may just mean that these old designs will be replaced with WR versions. Also, perhaps Ned Bunnell had a point when he said these film-FF designs may not fulfill expectations on FF digital. Many treat the "no more FA Ltds" rumour as prove of Pentax pulling out of FF. But remember what they did to the 100mm Macro? They could have produced an APS-C version of it and sell it at the same price, right? But they didn't.

We've got some unconfirmed facts from Pentax people at Photokina but that doesn't mean we have heard the full story from Japan.

QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote

Here's Falk, explaining the Sony press guy the physics of the translucent mirror.
Ha, ha, one could have guessed that's what the direction of knowledge flow is.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
We agreed that the speed of the SDM motor has remained the same.
To be expected.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
But he was also around when I said that I do see a K-5 advantage for very short focus wheel turning differences where focus turn time doesn't matter this much.
That's what I thought when I read Wieland's statement. He seems to think of AF speed to mean "time to get from end to end" whereas in practice it is much more important how quickly the camera finds the point of accurate focus when it is already close to having a good lock.

No offence, Wieland, but I don't think your statement about AF not being quicker for SDM lenses is true in practice. The most relevant part of AF speed is determined by the camera, not the lens, which is why we can expect to see AF speed improvements even with SDM lenses where the "end to end" speed is fixed by the power of the lens motor.
09-25-2010, 04:13 PM   #472
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A look at a translation of the limiteds page of the Japanese web store seems to indicate (if I understand the translation right) that some of the FA limited are out of stock, but will back in stock soon. So are some of the DA limiteds.

No, I don't believe this, it must be some misunderstanding.

Translation: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ja&tl=e...P5OUnhA2BgPR6Q
09-25-2010, 05:24 PM   #473
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
I believe now it makes perfect sense why Cosina/Voigtlander, Sigma, and Carl Zeiss are going to discontinue or not build lenses for the K-mount at all. since Voightlander and CZ are FF lenses, while Sigma have it's own share of FF "DG" lenses (150mm (not available) and 180mm are no longer available for the K-mount). so it doesn't make sense for these lens makers to build an FF lenses to someone who doesn't even sell FF cameras. this should be pretty much an obvious sign by now that Pentax won't build an FF system....EVER.


oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave.
Simply put, Pentax users aren't buying lenses in numbers, nothing to do with FF or otherwise... Ask yourself, aside from the enthusiasts here, just how many people even own an FA Limited, much less a manual focus Voigtlander? Just like a lot of talk of the K-5 but how many people will actually go out and buy one? Just a reflection of the Pentax penny pinching demographics...

09-25-2010, 05:27 PM   #474
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I didn't say it was in context with lead. I said it was in context with expensive lenses and your reply is confirming this. Thank You as my memory wasn't very precise. The lead argument was further down in the thread of discussion, that's correct. But I didn't say otherwise.

As for FA Ltds. being discontinued, I must say I wasn't around when that was said. I am seeking confirmation now.

We had a chat with a manager from Pentax Germany. But I am no friend of telegram style summaries of such conversations. There normally is a lot of subtext and w/o the proper context, all sorts of interpretation are possible.

Finally, Wieland (blende8) and myself did the SDM test. We agreed that the speed of the SDM motor has remained the same. We agreed too that at the given lighting situation the actual lens focus wheel turning time was by far the dominant part (DA*16-50). But he was also around when I said that I do see a K-5 advantage for very short focus wheel turning differences where focus turn time doesn't matter this much. In absolute terms, the difference was barely noticeable indeed. But I got the vague impression that the difference in relative terms was significant, maybe as large as 100%. We really need bad light or AF.C benchmarks and we have no idea how the result would turn out.

In practical terms and at the given lighting, both K-7 and K-5 focussed as fast as the SDM motor could shift the SDM lens.



Any mention of new accessories?


Teleconverters or a better flash unit?
09-25-2010, 05:34 PM   #475
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If the FA ltd's are infact planned to be discontinued, I actually think thats a good thing

To me, that means just maybe we will get new modern equivalents such as oh I don't know..... a Pentax 85mm F/1.4? Not to mention maybe we will finally get a truly fast "wide" normal lens?

I was never interested in any of the three "amigos" so it doesn't affect me in the slightest anyhow
09-25-2010, 06:50 PM   #476
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I don't believe for an instant that the FA limiteds will be discontinued unless there is some sequel planned. Retooling them with in lens motor and weather sealing, like the DA 55. They are proven designs and even at the astronomical prices they currently sell for, they still sell pretty well I am sure. The idea of phasing them out and not replacing them would be crazy.

I just wonder how much Pentax officials in various countries really know about what is going on in Japan and what their real long term plans are. I guarantee that Pentax/Hoya is currently weighing all options, deciding if and when to launch EVIL, Full Frame, or some other "next best thing" and they are holding their cards as close to their chest as they can.
09-25-2010, 08:02 PM   #477
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Jeez, the Pentax-is-doomed and gloom in this thread has shot through the roof!

...hey!

...Hey you guys!

Did you notice? In the last month Pentax has introduced that entry-level normal prime we've been asking for, a weathersealed do-it-all zoom, and TWO fantastic APS-C cameras, both of which are highly competitive in their current markets, markets that are far larger and more profitable than the FF market. Hopefully that means more profit to drive r+d for more lenses and maybe, someday, a FF camera!

Yeesh.

Also of note regarding the buffer: The D7000 only gets 11 RAW frames per burst, and these are only 12 bit as opposed to 7 14-bit frames at a higher speed with the K-5. Not a huge difference. The K-5 and D7000 are priced almost identically in most of the world. It would be nice if the K-5 had a buffer comparable to the D700 but honestly, it makes sense that it's competitive with the D7000 instead.
09-25-2010, 08:27 PM   #478
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
There is no reason to buy Pentax except for the FA Limited lenses.
[/B]
You mean, There is no reason for you to buy Pentax except for the FA Limited lenses.

I buy it for the DA Limiteds, and no other brand offers that.
09-25-2010, 08:49 PM   #479
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Jeez, the Pentax-is-doomed and gloom in this thread has shot through the roof!

...hey!

...Hey you guys!

Did you notice? In the last month Pentax has introduced that entry-level normal prime we've been asking for, a weathersealed do-it-all zoom, and TWO fantastic APS-C cameras, both of which are highly competitive in their current markets, markets that are far larger and more profitable than the FF market. Hopefully that means more profit to drive r+d for more lenses and maybe, someday, a FF camera!

Yeesh.

Also of note regarding the buffer: The D7000 only gets 11 RAW frames per burst, and these are only 12 bit as opposed to 7 14-bit frames at a higher speed with the K-5. Not a huge difference. The K-5 and D7000 are priced almost identically in most of the world. It would be nice if the K-5 had a buffer comparable to the D700 but honestly, it makes sense that it's competitive with the D7000 instead.
LOL ! I wasn't part of that group that was asking for such, yet I see a lot who asked for are quite unhappy? man, I was suppose to be the one who should be unhappy, not them.
09-25-2010, 09:28 PM   #480
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QuoteOriginally posted by gnaztee Quote
You mean, There is no reason for you to buy Pentax except for the FA Limited lenses.

I buy it for the DA Limiteds, and no other brand offers that.
Amen to that. While I may lust over the FA77, the FA limiteds are by no means the only reason to buy Pentax. Fact is, I will probably never have the spare cash to drop on a lens like that with any legitimate reason. I bought Pentax so that I could spend $35 on an old manual 50 that's just as sharp at all apertures as any other modern uberlens I've ever used. The DA limiteds are on my list of possibilities in the future (especially that 15mm... the one focal length I really want and have never had...).
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