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09-26-2010, 08:42 AM   #526
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote

Nikon D7000 is a PRICE REVOLUTION, lots of specs for low admission price.


Nikon offers what, some 71 USA market lenses all with 5 year warranty included.
Nikon makes great gear and no one wonders when's full frame coming & whether Nikon is doomed...
Well, that may be it, D7000 is priced low because, they can afford it and it wil be their est chance now to beat Canon. Othe rbenefit is that it will entice more people to buy the expensive sealed lenses. (maybe they even won't make (much?) profit on D700 bosy alone)

09-26-2010, 08:43 AM   #527
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Peter, if Falk got that info directly from a Pentax distibutor's pricing sheet, there's no reason for him not to post it.
09-26-2010, 08:48 AM   #528
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No I'm not going to chill out and if the other mods, Adam or Ole want to issue an infraction, fine so be it. I speaking as any other member. I deserve absolutely no special treatment.

What I'm sick of is how certain members just relish is posting completely unreferenced and unverified rumours that have no basis in fact. At some point they might drop the Ltd's, but right here and right now they haven't.* Maybe tomorrow, they will officially announce that the line is gone. But posting that one second before it really happens is completely and undeniably irresponsible.

I notice the people who posted this misinformation haven't taken me up on the challenge to post an official release or any other backup info. it's interesting they are silent and other have spoken for them.

To claim otherwise is foolish.

Look at it this way. You're a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, you report that Apple has decided to discontinue the iPad. You have nothing to back it up. You know it's probably not true. But you heard it from some guy who heard it from some other guy and now report it as fact. Apple stocks drop, there's damage to the company and their reputation.

How is that story any different from some self-important member posting rumours and BS on this or any other forum. The internet has huge power to raise and lower a company.

Those that do this without any proof or links from verifiable sources do not deserve to be listened to or debated. They enjoy some status as "in the know" even if they can't back it up.

Guess what? I am as well. I've shot for 30 years and continue to shoot Pentax. I've had a 20 year relationship with the Pentax and the regional rep. Have a look at my web site. Pentax allows me to advertise their brand. I've gotten sneek peeks and gear to review for EtL. There are no hints yet from them that the Ltds are gone. Now that doesn't mean they are or are not. It means, I can't post news about them that I can verify. So as someone who would like to be responsible here, I'm not posting anything.

Go ahead and post "I want" lists for new gear. Post we should have gotten threads. Complain all you want. But when totally unsubstantiated rumours are posted that can only serve to hurt the brand we call home, Then I'll use capital letters.

Ban me go ahead. But when you do, ban them too.
09-26-2010, 08:52 AM   #529
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QuoteOriginally posted by deadwolfbones Quote
Peter, if Falk got that info directly from a Pentax distibutor's pricing sheet, there's no reason for him not to post it.
OK if they are so willing to share this, then scan the document and post it here. Until that happens, this is all BS.

I can post all sorts of made up crap and until this thread, you'd believe me if I made the post convincing enough and seem logical. But I would expect you to challenge me forcefully and directly if I didn't have a document to back up what I say.

09-26-2010, 08:57 AM   #530
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I think the whole problem here is a misinterpretation of the forum title, so let me clear it up so we can hopefully avoid these situations in the future. "Pentax News and Rumors" does not mean that this is a place to start rumors.
09-26-2010, 08:58 AM - 1 Like   #531
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
No I'm not going to chill out and if the other mods, Adam or Ole want to issue an infraction, fine so be it. I speaking as any other member. I deserve absolutely no special treatment.

What I'm sick of is how certain members just relish is posting completely unreferenced and unverified rumours that have no basis in fact. At some point they might drop the Ltd's, but right here and right now they haven't.* Maybe tomorrow, they will officially announce that the line is gone. But posting that one second before it really happens is completely and undeniably irresponsible.

I notice the people who posted this misinformation haven't taken me up on the challenge to post an official release or any other backup info. it's interesting they are silent and other have spoken for them.

To claim otherwise is foolish.

Look at it this way. You're a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, you report that Apple has decided to discontinue the iPad. You have nothing to back it up. You know it's probably not true. But you heard it from some guy who heard it from some other guy and now report it as fact. Apple stocks drop, there's damage to the company and their reputation.

How is that story any different from some self-important member posting rumours and BS on this or any other forum. The internet has huge power to raise and lower a company.

Those that do this without any proof or links from verifiable sources do not deserve to be listened to or debated. They enjoy some status as "in the know" even if they can't back it up.

Guess what? I am as well. I've shot for 30 years and continue to shoot Pentax. I've had a 20 year relationship with the Pentax and the regional rep. Have a look at my web site. Pentax allows me to advertise their brand. I've gotten sneek peeks and gear to review for EtL. There are no hints yet from them that the Ltds are gone. Now that doesn't mean they are or are not. It means, I can't post news about them that I can verify. So as someone who would like to be responsible here, I'm not posting anything.

Go ahead and post "I want" lists for new gear. Post we should have gotten threads. Complain all you want. But when totally unsubstantiated rumours are posted that can only serve to hurt the brand we call home, Then I'll use capital letters.

Ban me go ahead. But when you do, ban them too.
I think you mistaken here. We are talking about Falk, the most respected poster of this forum. I can understand this news donesn't please you, but, I don't think it please Falk more than you. He is also a huge Pentax supporter, and more closer to them than anybody having "good relationship with a pentax rep.". Falk is a major contribution to this forum, one of the only guys giving good values to PF. He NEVER announced anything as for which he didn't get real and confirmed informations. He has a reputation and keep it good by acting well. Then, as suggested by someone else above, I would suggest to look at it again, think about who he is, and apologize. Because if he decide to leave this forum after this violent and frontal personal offence, it would be a big lost for PF.
By the way, I also would like to remind that if Pentax Germany get bad infos relayed on this specific forum, so what? Is it not the "Pentax News and Rumors" thread?
09-26-2010, 09:10 AM - 1 Like   #532
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
What I'm sick of is how certain members just relish is posting completely unreferenced and unverified rumours that have no basis in fact.
And yet you've chosen to attack a member who posted something referenced, citing the specific document from which his information came, rather than the member earlier in the thread who posted the original rumor to which Falk was posting a clarification based on a specific citation.

The fact of the matter here is that Falk cited information that you personally don't believe, and so you've chosen to publicly attack him with absolutely no information whatsoever to back up your own assertions. Falk states that a Pentax-provided document states that these lenses are now EOL (end-of-life) in the German market. Care to provide any source showing that this is *not* the case?

If you can't do so, why not give him the opportunity to provide further information (either on the record, or privately outside the forum) backing this up, before making a personal attack on another member's character?

QuoteQuote:
I notice the people who posted this misinformation haven't taken me up on the challenge to post an official release or any other backup info. it's interesting they are silent and other have spoken for them.
The member in question hasn't made a single post of any kind on this forum since two hours before you made your personal attack, a fact you could easily verify yourself.

Are you seriously suggesting that because he hasn't participated in the forum for a few hours, he must therefore somehow be hiding from answering you?

Or are you simply clutching at straws in an attempt to support your extremely inappropriate, personal attack as member of this site's staff, who should know far better, and take the time to contact the member outside of this thread before posting inflammatory remarks without any information to back up your own assertions?
09-26-2010, 09:11 AM   #533
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The FA Limiteds was replaced years ago by the DA Limiteds. The only reason the FA Limiteds stayed in production was because they were popular, they were selling. It was simply profitable to have them in production. Now, they are not selling like they used to be. Hoya wants products to be profitable. They won't keep a product in production if it is not profitable. Hoya is different than old Pentax. I remember an advert from Pentax in the 80's were they state that they don't earn money on their more specialised lenses, but they have them because they have passion for photography. I believe this was true - they accepted to have a loss, just to have a complete lens lineup.
Not so any more. Hoya declared from start that their goal is profit, to make Pentax profitable.

For Hoya there is no reason to have lenses in the price list if they are not profitable. They are not interested in showing off "look, we have this special lens. We loose money on it, but it looks cool to have it in the price list".

We simply have to accept that Hoya is more market oriented than Pentax was.

As for the Nikon D7000 being so cheap. No it is not. Not in Europe.
In Europe, the K-5 sells for same as Nikon or slightly slightly more depending on country. Now K-5 has more expensive build quality, better weather sealing, uses more metal and so on. It cost more to make. Still, Pentax in Europe matches the price of Nikon.

09-26-2010, 09:13 AM   #534
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I have reasons to believe that Pentax is doing quite well in Japan, just not in North America. It is a cultural thing.... in the future we may have to order a Pentax camera from Japan - many will treat it as a prestige and novelty item.
For it to improve, it actually has to be available for people to see and buy. Most people don't gamble by ordering things they have never seen for $800 to $2000 a pop. Outside of NYC, Pentax is M.I.A. in stores on any scale.
09-26-2010, 09:16 AM   #535
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Peter Zack, I think this getting really strange and still way out of line.

If the subforum is about news and rumors, what should be posted there if everything has to have an official Pentax press release? There's the Official news area for that.

I also think that a moderator can be expected to have a better than average forum behaviour. It's like having the police break the law when they're off duty. After all, they're just citizens then, right?

And while I may not always agree with falconeye's opinions, I have lots of respect for his analytical approach and knowledge. And I have not once seen him post deliberate misinformation or lies, so I find the attitude towards him quite unacceptable.
09-26-2010, 09:24 AM   #536
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
The FA Limiteds was replaced years ago by the DA Limiteds. The only reason the FA Limiteds stayed in production was because they were popular, they were selling. It was simply profitable to have them in production. Now, they are not selling like they used to be. Hoya wants products to be profitable. They won't keep a product in production if it is not profitable. Hoya is different than old Pentax. I remember an advert from Pentax in the 80's were they state that they don't earn money on their more specialised lenses, but they have them because they have passion for photography. I believe this was true - they accepted to have a loss, just to have a complete lens lineup.
Not so any more. Hoya declared from start that their goal is profit, to make Pentax profitable.

For Hoya there is no reason to have lenses in the price list if they are not profitable. They are not interested in showing off "look, we have this special lens. We loose money on it, but it looks cool to have it in the price list".

We simply have to accept that Hoya is more market oriented than Pentax was.

As for the Nikon D7000 being so cheap. No it is not. Not in Europe.
In Europe, the K-5 sells for same as Nikon or slightly slightly more depending on country. Now K-5 has more expensive build quality, better weather sealing, uses more metal and so on. It cost more to make. Still, Pentax in Europe matches the price of Nikon.
They seem to sell out of the FA 31mm frequently at BH and Adorama and even Pentax Imaging.
09-26-2010, 09:35 AM - 1 Like   #537
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This Photokina has given us a hell of a lot of misunderstandings and misinformation.

I want to re-iterate my opinion: both Pentax Germany and Hoya are ****ing amateurs. At this time, at one of the most important photo shows, we don't need more rumors, but hard facts and a long term vision.

Again: bloody ****ing amateurs... All of this left a bad taste in my mouth.
09-26-2010, 09:36 AM   #538
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In french, we have a famous sentence that say "don't shoot the messenger", even if the message if bad news. Here Falk is kind enough to give us an internal information from Pentax Germany. Is it going to be officialized sooner or later? Is it a new internal communication problem (remember K5 release 1 week ago)? I don't know and I don't care. Falk is, in my eyes the most precious poster of this forum. And get all my respect. Not only he never gave deliberate misinformation (I can give other names for that, and these people are still very active on the forum without getting any kind of attack like this one!), but he always offer a rational point of view of the real things. Peter Zack, you are a senior moderator, I often previously shared your point of view. You asked us to treat you as any poster here. So let me tell you that what you did here, if nobody hacked your account, is definitely not acceptable and I hope you will understand how much sooner than later. I will let Falk answer for himself, since he is your "target" (up to him to report an abuse). Just pray for this forum that you did not pissed him so much that he decide to quit and do his stuff from now exclusively on his own blog. I would follow him. Not PF.
09-26-2010, 09:41 AM   #539
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Peter is entitled to his opinion and I somewhat agree with the majority of his post. What I do think wrong though is that he can edit his original post nearly 3 hours later and then also edit anyone elses if they have quoted him. (removed 2 words from original post)

That is not right imo.
09-26-2010, 09:43 AM   #540
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QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
And yet you've chosen to attack a member who posted something referenced, citing the specific document from which his information came, rather than the member earlier in the thread who posted the original rumor to which Falk was posting a clarification based on a specific citation.

The fact of the matter here is that Falk cited information that you personally don't believe, and so you've chosen to publicly attack him with absolutely no information whatsoever to back up your own assertions. Falk states that a Pentax-provided document states that these lenses are now EOL (end-of-life) in the German market. Care to provide any source showing that this is *not* the case?

If you can't do so, why not give him the opportunity to provide further information (either on the record, or privately outside the forum) backing this up, before making a personal attack on another member's character?



The member in question hasn't made a single post of any kind on this forum since two hours before you made your personal attack, a fact you could easily verify yourself.

Are you seriously suggesting that because he hasn't participated in the forum for a few hours, he must therefore somehow be hiding from answering you?

Or are you simply clutching at straws in an attempt to support your extremely inappropriate, personal attack as member of this site's staff, who should know far better, and take the time to contact the member outside of this thread before posting inflammatory remarks without any information to back up your own assertions?
OK Fine. Blende8 posts a 2 word item, of some conversation he says he heard and Falk backs it up. Falk is a respected member of this forum and should know better. Blende8 has no inside access and posted absolutely nothing to back up his "facts" Falk backed him up with nothing other than he "heard something"

Oh and I was a sales rep for 15 years. If one of my distributors gave out pre announcement information about anything, the distributor could easily be fined or loose his line. I find it very hard to believe anyone with an NDA would just give this out freely to a member of the public. Falk and Blende8 are just members of the public. Falk go a chance to beta test the K-7 and did anyone notice that he wasn't asked to beta test the new gear? Wonder why!

I stand by my point that Falk should have not said a thing unless he had a document in his hands that he could publish here.

Last edited by Peter Zack; 09-26-2010 at 09:50 AM. Reason: spelling
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