[blende8]

Thanks for the report, blende8! FA limiteds are discontinued? I really hope that means new lenses to replace them. Maybe even WR remake of (some of) the 3 amigos.
At the minimum the need something wide-ish and fast.

No, nothing to replace them.
The word is: No full-frame, no full-frame, no full-frame.
It's 645 + APS-C.
I think there will be no FF from Pentax.
Even Sony is struggling here.

Regarding fast lenses: It seems that Pentax sees no need for it.
"Just use higher ISO."
That's how they think, no joke.

[eurostar]

- no tele above 500mm. It's not possible for Pentax. Unprofitable.

I would be perfectly happy with a tele AT 500mm.

[illdefined]

Regarding fast lenses: It seems that Pentax sees no need for it.
"Just use higher ISO."
That's how they think, no joke.

then they released the K-7.

and now charge a $1700 premium to make up for that mistake.

[ogl]

The Russian Pentaxian who live in Germany asked different managers several times about FF.
The managers offered to buy 645D instead of FF.

The managers from stand of Pentax say that no any FF in the next 2 years. No any plans. No new FF lenses to make. "Buy 645D!!!".

[RonHendriks1966]

Wow the ending of the FA ltd is a surprice. Maybe not enough demand. I did not read that message anywhere else, is there a second confirmation somewhere?

Maybe Pentax is changing from trying to be a big marketshare company wich would have to sell and make everyting to a modest niche player (landscape and outdoor) with a brought fun-using young colourfull consumerbase (the colourfull K-x and K-r users) that don't ask for anything beyond 300mm or ever buy hi-class expensive glass like the FA series.

For now it services my demands. I had some over 300mm glass for a while but it's not my thing. In the change there will be some new and some leaving custumers.

I do agree that having APS-C and 645D is a good basis to work with. I don't see enough custumors for FF at the time.

I too talked with the guys from Pentax at the boot. They say that they have a target for selling 1.000 645D camera's in 2011. I think that was in Europe, but when I think again that could be for Pentax Germany (Germany, Austria and Schweizz) only.

[blende8]

I would be perfectly happy with a tele AT 500mm.

I said so because there were plans of 560mm last year.

This year there are rumors of a 400mm, but nobody at Pentax knew anything about it.
I would be happy with a small 400/5.6.

Here's Falk, explaining the Sony press guy the physics of the translucent mirror.



More images from the user meeting:
Photokina - Tekade Usertreffen

[ogl]

K5
K7.
- AF is not faster with SDM lenses. I have tested this.


other:
- no tele above 500mm. It's not possible for Pentax. Unprofitable.
- no info on other lenses
- FA Limited are discontinued
- no FF in sight, definitely not in 2011, probably also not in 2012.
- perhaps there will be a 3rd party grip for the Kr.
- the high prices are defined in Japan. Pentax outside of Japan cannot change them.
- the market in the USA/Canada is a nothing to Pentax, only France and Germany count besides Japan.
:[/B]

Shocked.

About AF speed K-5 + SDM lenses - it's true. Already tried by Russian Pentaxian too. K-7's level.

[RonHendriks1966]

Shocked.

About AF speed K-5 + SDM lenses - it's true. Already tried by Russian Pentaxian too. K-7's level.

Maybe the limitation is in the Pentax SDM system. Has anyone tried a Sigma HSM lens, wich are faster then the Pentax SDM on our K-7.

To share a picture I took with the 645D and the D-FA55mm lens at the Pentax boot. Notting special, f2.8 1/80th iso-1000

[ogl]

Maybe the limitation is in the Pentax SDM system. Has anyone tried a Sigma HSM lens, wich are faster then the Pentax SDM on our K-7.

645D is cool, but it's not for my wallet and 99% of Pentaxian

[aleonx3]

No. It's more difficult than that.
Since this forum is full of marketing gurus, I'm surprised no one has chewed his up correctly yet.
Any company can do a better job in PR, and that's why Pentax has gotten an all new PR partner, as announced few days before Photokina. And they didn't invite any expert from you here, luckily.

The reasons for confusion re K-5 are few: very tight lips of Hoya, keeping cards close to chest till the very last moment, and unexpected happening just before Photokina -- Nikon's D7000.

Nikon has dropped a bomb no one expected. It left Canon bezerked with their 60D, and it left Pentax in a limbo. They weren't sure how to advertise the product because of the D7000. They have surely had a plan how to proceed, but D7000 changed the approach. They needed to respond, and still not to kill the sales or even the good impression about the brand new product.

First the price: almost all of you and DPR folks started whinging about alleged price of $1599. K-5 is a D300s class camera, and D300s successor will undoubtedly cost more. But little rats demand that K-5 which looks similar to D7000 must match that price.

Then there are specs. Because both cameras share same sensor, people pre-assume image quality must be 'same', thus forgetting all the other details. Today that all what matters: ISO noise, sensor and price. All else is irrelevant for this new breed of modern digital 'photographers'. Some details of the Nikon system work in favour of D7000, some in favour of K-5, but in any case, K-5 does cost more to produce because it does have a better constructed / expensive body, IS.

Communicating back and forth within teams and deciding about prices is not an easy thing, esp. very last moment. That's why K-5 got an ISO bump in the last minute, from planned ISO 12800 to ISO 51200 (perhaps technically possible, and to calibrated before production begins), to beat D7000 at least in some visible specs (D7000 specs and prices were announced publicly, thus set in stone).

Competition is not easy and some players are playing this game in an unpredictable way. Nikon wants to smudge borders between certain camera models / ranges and forcing direct competitors to drop into the lower band by forcing a lower price on a similar set of some specs. It is all a matter of perception, and Nikon is playing well in the field of perception because they lead the game of 'digital shooters' taste -- low noise, HiISO. They can skim a lot by carefully engineering a camera with lower value that appears to be of higher spec in areas digital shooters expect. As said above, same sensor and similar construction (albeit weaker, but never explicitly told by the press) works in favour of Nikon, but not in favour of Pentax.

If Nikon gets K-5 eliminated by competing with D7000, and Canon out of game by eliminating its 60D with the same camera, then they can place D400 'above' and charge even more for it because they'd add something that 'sounds' like an improvement and advertise just that and let all of you work for them. You're Nikon's PR team -- they don't need hire no one else. You force Pentax to work hard for a dime, and allow Nikon to work less for more $, by mudding the waters and avoiding real innovations where others excel.

This all happens silently, and with an approval and applause from the blind audience. They don't care what they get exactly, as long as it 'sounds' similar. But whole of life is in details; that's why, sadly, today's photography has more bangs than life. Cameras are instantly shot dead before even announced and you did that with K-5.

Blind little whingers expect that, to pay less and less for more and more, and because some manufacturers have no enough camera models for the competition, they are forced to comply to the price war in the category their competitors are creating for them -- not true market needs or real abilities of the system + camera equation.

If consumers understood what is the total value of the camera plus system uniqueness, all this would be a non-issue and would never happen.
But they understand just nothing.

Thanks, makes perfect sense to me.

[solar1]

I saw this at DPR a few minutes ago from cheddargav: "The Pentax Kr + DAL35 2.4 = the fastest AF I've ever seen from a Pentax camera by a mile and then some! No joke, even in very average lighting it was very quick and very accurate, and I have to say that it is a lovely combination to hold, Pentax have done really really well with this camera."

Hi Blende, did you get to try this combo for yourself at PK, or the new DA35/2.4 with the K5?

I'm more than curious if Pentaxians brought along their screwmount lenses to try with either the K-r or the K5 to see if AF speed really has improved - I can't imagine someone hasn't had the thought to try this out

I can imagine the SDM lenses can't AF any faster then they are built. But screwmount should be a different story?

I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians.
It was nice!

K5
- The sensor of the K5 ids good! It is probably about 2 EV better than the K20/K7.
- AF is not faster with SDM lenses. I have tested this.
- It was shooting 7 RAWs in a row.

18-135
- very nice built
- nobody at Pentax knew what DC means
- AF is ok.

DA35
- no colored ones outside of Japan

other:
- no tele above 500mm. It's not possible for Pentax. Unprofitable.
- no info on other lenses
- FA Limited are discontinued
- no FF in sight, definitely not in 2011, probably also not in 2012.
- perhaps there will be a 3rd party grip for the Kr.
- the high prices are defined in Japan. Pentax outside of Japan cannot change them.
- the market in the USA/Canada is a nothing to Pentax, only France and Germany count besides Japan.

[Col]

I agree Ron SDM probably the limit I believe the Pentaxeros video used a Sigma Lens. Blimey mate I wouldn't have the nerve to stand in front of a firing 645D

[aleonx3]

Is Hoya trying to kill Pentax!?!?!? Looks the same as if Canon announced they will stop L lenses!
This photokina is a really good year for body announcement but a real communication fiasco!

I have reasons to believe that Pentax is doing quite well in Japan, just not in North America. It is a cultural thing.... in the future we may have to order a Pentax camera from Japan - many will treat it as a prestige and novelty item.

[raz]

18-135
- very nice built
- nobody at Pentax knew what DC means
- AF is ok.

thanks!!

But, what did you feel ? is the 18-135 faster than a normal SDM lens ? Fast like a nikon silentwave or canon usm ?

The reasons for confusion re K-5 are few: very tight lips of Hoya, keeping cards close to chest till the very last moment, and unexpected happening just before Photokina -- Nikon's D7000.

We're talking here about a big company !!!
They should have made some variants in case one competitor drops a bomb ! Is not normal the way they did, they had some days to announce the K5 after the D7000, is not like both cameras were announced in the same day.

Those days between D7000 and K5 - they should have brainstorm and set a price and a press release without those huge mistakes. Or they were in vacation ? Why the European and American Pentax had no clues about nothing the first days ? Is like the Japanese heads didn't answer the phones or emails.

Second, they should have made some images and video with the cameras - even if the camera is not finished. Not the amateurish video made in Colorado. They should have given the camera to someone famous to shot some video and images at iso 100 - at least to have something to show us - even if the video or pictures weren't full size.

[JohnBee]

- It was shooting 7 RAWs in a row.

You don't know how sad I am to hear this
For me, this means I will not be able to continue with the Pentax line for my work.

I don't know why Pentax ever thought this would be acceptable for existing owners, but it seems that someone at HQ insists on devaluating new camera's from their predecessors.

The worst part, is that I will miss the place the most
Oh well.. I guess I can say Pentax has served me well in my photographic development. I did most of my progress and work on the K20D.

I'd also like to say(on record), that I go to Nikon FF not out of choice, but because Pentax forced my hand into it. Not really the way I would have liked to make my choice tbh.

It took me three+ years to build my glass kit with Pentax btw.
It makes me very sad to think I will have to sell it in favor of a few Nikkor zooms.