Pentax at Photokina coverage by Falk Lumo!

Pentaxor · 09-25-2010, 10:04 AM

Originally posted by JohnBee

You don't know how sad I am to hear this

For me, this means I will not be able to continue with the Pentax line for my work.

I don't know why Pentax ever thought this would be acceptable for existing owners, but it seems that someone at HQ insists on devaluating new camera's from their predecessors.

The worst part, is that I will miss the place the most

Oh well.. I guess I can say Pentax has served me well in my photographic development. I did most of my progress and work on the K20D.

I'd also like to say(on record), that I go to Nikon FF not out of choice, but because Pentax forced my hand into it. Not really the way I would have liked to make my choice tbh.

It took me three+ years to build my glass kit with Pentax btw.
It makes me very sad to think I will have to sell it in favor of a few Nikkor zooms.

JB, I guess one of my speculative scenarios became real. and it's too bad it has to be the worst one. I believe Pentax doesn't want to affect the APS-C line by releasing a FF camera, thinking it will be the death of their APS-C market, could be if the FF is cheap or priced the same as their midrange dslr. hopefully Sigma or Fuji will release something that has been continuously ignored by Pentax next year and create a FF camera. I just hope that either company would release a universal mount adapter as well or otherwise, it would mean modifying some Pentax lenses. I'm not sure how would the non-Pentax Camera's rendering would be with Pentax Glass, but I believe it would depend on the sensor and filtering method used for it. or I could just buy either a used D700 or 5DMkII.

as I had stated on another thread, my proposed deadline will be set on June 2011. or I could move it further till November 2011, enough time just to see what other new options are in-stored for next year. so that's it. November it is.

blende8 · 09-25-2010, 10:05 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by falconeye

I think this requires some context. If I remember correctly, this statement applied to expensive high end glass as it is no longer produced by Pentax.

In that context, it was said too that rare Pentax lenses cannot be exported to Europe anymore. Not because the glass may contain lead (RoHS). But because some of the lens element mounts within the lens may contain lead.

No, no, no, Falk, it wasn't in context with lead.
I asked about a long tele and he said that one has to sell so and so much to make profit. And they calculated this. For this calculation basically only Japan, Germany and France count.
The other countries are not worth counting in this respect.

And I don't buy this lead argument. Since lens elements are excuded from this law, they now say it's in the mount? Come on ... There are other reasons.

RonHendriks1966 · 09-25-2010, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by blende8

No, no, no, Falk, it wasn't in context with lead.
I asked about a long tele and he said that one has to sell so and so much to make profit. And they calculated this. For this calculation basically only Japan, Germany and France count.
The other countries are not worth counting in this respect.

Well it is simple economics on return on development on what productioncosts are and the number of items to be sold to make it break even. Only after that number of items you will gain profit.

Well in market terms maybe those are the largest. In the netherlands the marketshare is very small and adding to that the country is small.

andi · 09-25-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by blende8

I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians.
It was nice!

K5
- The sensor of the K5 ids good! It is probably about 2 EV better than the K20/K7.

Could you please share your thoughts about that sensor?
Does it seem to be focused on high ISO only or you really are seeing
some resolution/DR advantage?

Bad news about the lenses. I own 7 primes Limited at the moment
and it was the only reason I got Pentax. I since really liked the system
and I am getting a couple of Zeiss lenses in K mount as they are still
available. But killing those great primes is just plain stupid.

They really seem to be focused on the colorful simple cameras in Japan only.

deadwolfbones · 09-25-2010, 10:17 AM

I really can't believe they'd stop production entirely on the FA Limiteds. They'd have to be full-on retarded.

raz · 09-25-2010, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Mehlsack

Well infact i think all pics and impressions we gained at photokina are more or less useless because:

1.One camera almost always switched into the "debug" mode and i could work with the menu

2. Two of the K-5 just shots 4 raw and 7 JPEGs :S

I think what we are seeing there are some realy bad prototyps/pre-final versions, so i would not count on anything i saw so far, maybe the AF, but i dont assume that it will be slower in final.

And i asked another guy, who denied that tethering shooting will be available, it is not available even for 645D

But maybe (lol) it will be upgrades by firmware.

Ps: JohnBee, maybe you should just wait for the final release ?

That answered a lot of questions. It seems that Pentax wasn't ready with the K5 for Photokina ? And forced the camera and announcement when they find out about D7000 ? Probably they found out about D7000 earlier than us.

Pentaxor · 09-25-2010, 10:31 AM - **1 Like**

I believe now it makes perfect sense why Cosina/Voigtlander, Sigma, and Carl Zeiss are going to discontinue or not build lenses for the K-mount at all. since Voightlander and CZ are FF lenses, while Sigma have it's own share of FF "DG" lenses (150mm (not available) and 180mm are no longer available for the K-mount). so it doesn't make sense for these lens makers to build an FF lenses to someone who doesn't even sell FF cameras. this should be pretty much an obvious sign by now that Pentax won't build an FF system....EVER.

oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave.

blende8 · 09-25-2010, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by andi

Could you please share your thoughts about that sensor?
Does it seem to be focused on high ISO only or you really are seeing
some resolution/DR advantage?

No, sorry, I didn't do any low ISO/DR tests. The time was limited.
But I have no doubts that the sensor is really good!

Edvinas · 09-25-2010, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

I have reason to be believe that none of this will happen in Japan or Asian. If the retailer will accept that, it will be sold as "returned" not new.

I don't know much about Japan and Asia, however in Europe usually you can't return bought stuff just because you have changed your mind.

janneman · 09-25-2010, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave.

I think the market for APS will always be bigger than for FF.
In fact D7000 proves that even brands who make excellent FF cameras still see a market for APS

Originally posted by blende8

No, nothing to replace them.
The word is: No full-frame, no full-frame, no full-frame.
It's 645 + APS-C.
I think there will be no FF from Pentax.
Even Sony is struggling here.

If that last sentence is true (and I see no reason why not), then ... why should Penatx?

janneman · 09-25-2010, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by blende8

I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians.
It was nice!

K5
- The sensor of the K5 ids good! It is probably about 2 EV better than the K20/K7.
- AF is not faster with SDM lenses. I have tested this.

At DPR there is someone reporting as AF being faster, also on SDM but the way it is described suggests a lot faster, more secure AF-lock. Even if SDM does not trun faster, it may yet mean faster AF, just depends on how you define `fast`

stanleyk · 09-25-2010, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave.

You may be right or at least I think so. I was really considering the K5 but decided against it. I went ahead and pre-ordered a Sony A55. I the got a 28, 50, and 85 so to go with it so I'm all set.

blende8 · 09-25-2010, 12:10 PM

No, it is not faster with SDM lenses.
This is wishful thinking.

Mike.P® · 09-25-2010, 12:25 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

I believe now it makes perfect sense why Cosina/Voigtlander, Sigma, and Carl Zeiss are going to discontinue or not build lenses for the K-mount at all.

Who said Sigma were going to stop making lenses in K mount?

janneman · 09-25-2010, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by blende8

No, it is not faster with SDM lenses.
This is wishful thinking.

And the "5"?? Misaligned or not??

09-25-2010, 11:50 AM	#445
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by Pentaxor oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave. I think the market for APS will always be bigger than for FF. In fact D7000 proves that even brands who make excellent FF cameras still see a market for APS Originally posted by blende8 No, nothing to replace them. The word is: No full-frame, no full-frame, no full-frame. It's 645 + APS-C. I think there will be no FF from Pentax. Even Sony is struggling here. If that last sentence is true (and I see no reason why not), then ... why should Penatx? Last edited by janneman; 09-25-2010 at 12:00 PM.

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09-25-2010, 10:04 AM	#436
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by JohnBee You don't know how sad I am to hear this For me, this means I will not be able to continue with the Pentax line for my work. I don't know why Pentax ever thought this would be acceptable for existing owners, but it seems that someone at HQ insists on devaluating new camera's from their predecessors. The worst part, is that I will miss the place the most Oh well.. I guess I can say Pentax has served me well in my photographic development. I did most of my progress and work on the K20D. I'd also like to say(on record), that I go to Nikon FF not out of choice, but because Pentax forced my hand into it. Not really the way I would have liked to make my choice tbh. It took me three+ years to build my glass kit with Pentax btw. It makes me very sad to think I will have to sell it in favor of a few Nikkor zooms. JB, I guess one of my speculative scenarios became real. and it's too bad it has to be the worst one. I believe Pentax doesn't want to affect the APS-C line by releasing a FF camera, thinking it will be the death of their APS-C market, could be if the FF is cheap or priced the same as their midrange dslr. hopefully Sigma or Fuji will release something that has been continuously ignored by Pentax next year and create a FF camera. I just hope that either company would release a universal mount adapter as well or otherwise, it would mean modifying some Pentax lenses. I'm not sure how would the non-Pentax Camera's rendering would be with Pentax Glass, but I believe it would depend on the sensor and filtering method used for it. or I could just buy either a used D700 or 5DMkII. as I had stated on another thread, my proposed deadline will be set on June 2011. or I could move it further till November 2011, enough time just to see what other new options are in-stored for next year. so that's it. November it is.

09-25-2010, 10:05 AM - 1 Like	#437
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by falconeye I think this requires some context. If I remember correctly, this statement applied to expensive high end glass as it is no longer produced by Pentax. In that context, it was said too that rare Pentax lenses cannot be exported to Europe anymore. Not because the glass may contain lead (RoHS). But because some of the lens element mounts within the lens may contain lead. No, no, no, Falk, it wasn't in context with lead. I asked about a long tele and he said that one has to sell so and so much to make profit. And they calculated this. For this calculation basically only Japan, Germany and France count. The other countries are not worth counting in this respect. And I don't buy this lead argument. Since lens elements are excuded from this law, they now say it's in the mount? Come on ... There are other reasons.

09-25-2010, 10:11 AM	#438
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by blende8 No, no, no, Falk, it wasn't in context with lead. I asked about a long tele and he said that one has to sell so and so much to make profit. And they calculated this. For this calculation basically only Japan, Germany and France count. The other countries are not worth counting in this respect. Well it is simple economics on return on development on what productioncosts are and the number of items to be sold to make it break even. Only after that number of items you will gain profit. Well in market terms maybe those are the largest. In the netherlands the marketshare is very small and adding to that the country is small.

09-25-2010, 10:14 AM	#439
andi Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 200	Originally posted by blende8 I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians. It was nice! K5 - The sensor of the K5 ids good! It is probably about 2 EV better than the K20/K7. Could you please share your thoughts about that sensor? Does it seem to be focused on high ISO only or you really are seeing some resolution/DR advantage? Bad news about the lenses. I own 7 primes Limited at the moment and it was the only reason I got Pentax. I since really liked the system and I am getting a couple of Zeiss lenses in K mount as they are still available. But killing those great primes is just plain stupid. They really seem to be focused on the colorful simple cameras in Japan only.

09-25-2010, 10:17 AM	#440
deadwolfbones Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: La Crescenta, CA Posts: 7,450	I really can't believe they'd stop production entirely on the FA Limiteds. They'd have to be full-on retarded.

09-25-2010, 10:20 AM	#441
raz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Timisoara, Romania Posts: 248	Originally posted by Mehlsack Well infact i think all pics and impressions we gained at photokina are more or less useless because: 1.One camera almost always switched into the "debug" mode and i could work with the menu 2. Two of the K-5 just shots 4 raw and 7 JPEGs :S I think what we are seeing there are some realy bad prototyps/pre-final versions, so i would not count on anything i saw so far, maybe the AF, but i dont assume that it will be slower in final. And i asked another guy, who denied that tethering shooting will be available, it is not available even for 645D But maybe (lol) it will be upgrades by firmware. Ps: JohnBee, maybe you should just wait for the final release ? That answered a lot of questions. It seems that Pentax wasn't ready with the K5 for Photokina ? And forced the camera and announcement when they find out about D7000 ? Probably they found out about D7000 earlier than us.

09-25-2010, 10:31 AM - 1 Like	#442
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	I believe now it makes perfect sense why Cosina/Voigtlander, Sigma, and Carl Zeiss are going to discontinue or not build lenses for the K-mount at all. since Voightlander and CZ are FF lenses, while Sigma have it's own share of FF "DG" lenses (150mm (not available) and 180mm are no longer available for the K-mount). so it doesn't make sense for these lens makers to build an FF lenses to someone who doesn't even sell FF cameras. this should be pretty much an obvious sign by now that Pentax won't build an FF system....EVER. oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave.

09-25-2010, 11:01 AM	#443
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	Originally posted by andi Could you please share your thoughts about that sensor? Does it seem to be focused on high ISO only or you really are seeing some resolution/DR advantage? No, sorry, I didn't do any low ISO/DR tests. The time was limited. But I have no doubts that the sensor is really good!

09-25-2010, 11:38 AM	#444
Edvinas Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kaunas Posts: 1,458	Originally posted by aleonx3 I have reason to be believe that none of this will happen in Japan or Asian. If the retailer will accept that, it will be sold as "returned" not new. I don't know much about Japan and Asia, however in Europe usually you can't return bought stuff just because you have changed your mind.

09-25-2010, 11:55 AM	#446
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by blende8 I also was at the Photokina yesterday, with Falk and other Pentaxians. It was nice! K5 - The sensor of the K5 ids good! It is probably about 2 EV better than the K20/K7. - AF is not faster with SDM lenses. I have tested this. At DPR there is someone reporting as AF being faster, also on SDM but the way it is described suggests a lot faster, more secure AF-lock. Even if SDM does not trun faster, it may yet mean faster AF, just depends on how you define `fast`

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09-25-2010, 12:05 PM	#447
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	Originally posted by Pentaxor oh, and the discontinuation of the production of the FA LTDs is the most depressing confirmation of all. Thank You Pentax. you did very well in digging up your own grave. You may be right or at least I think so. I was really considering the K5 but decided against it. I went ahead and pre-ordered a Sony A55. I the got a 28, 50, and 85 so to go with it so I'm all set.

09-25-2010, 12:10 PM	#448
blende8 Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Bremen, Germany Photos: Albums Posts: 1,521	No, it is not faster with SDM lenses. This is wishful thinking.

09-25-2010, 12:25 PM	#449
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	Originally posted by Pentaxor I believe now it makes perfect sense why Cosina/Voigtlander, Sigma, and Carl Zeiss are going to discontinue or not build lenses for the K-mount at all. Who said Sigma were going to stop making lenses in K mount?

09-25-2010, 12:29 PM	#450
janneman Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Netherlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 908	Originally posted by blende8 No, it is not faster with SDM lenses. This is wishful thinking. And the "5"?? Misaligned or not??