[knoxploration]

What I do think wrong though is that he can edit his original post nearly 3 hours later and then also edit anyone elses if they have quoted him. (removed 2 words from original post)

That is not right imo.

Agree completely. If somebody posted something and then wants to retract it, they should state what they're retracting. It's not right that posts should be edited once they've been replied to, because it changes the complexion of the conversation, and perhaps seems to make invalid the replies that were based on the earlier post.

[Peter Zack]

The 2 words I removed were profain and should not have been posted. The language was far too strong and should not have been posted originally. I was honest about it and posted the reason I edited the original. I didn't hide it. Someone called me out on it and I did the right thing.

OK Fine. Blende8 posts a 2 word item, of some conversation he says he heard and Flak backs it up. Falk is a respected member of theis forum and should know better. Blende8 has no inside access and posted absolutely nothing to back up his "facts" Flak backed him up with nothing other than he "heard something"

Oh and I was a sale rep for 15 years. If one of my distributors gave out pre announcement information about anything, the distibutor could eaily be fined or loose his line. I find it very hard to believe anyone with an NDA would just give this out freely to a member of the public. Falk and Blende8 are just members of the public. Falk go a chance to beta test the K-7 and did anyone notice that he wasn't asked to beta test the new gear? Wonder why!

I stand by my point that Falk should have not said a thing unless he had a doument in his hands that he could publish here.

Wow. Getting ugly here. What a drama.

I still don't get why it is wrong to post rumors in rumors section. Maybe we ought to shut it down altogether.

BTW, I am not surprised that Falk was not asked to beta test K-5 after his revelation about shutter blur. If I were Pentax, he is the last one I want to hand over a beta cam. You know he will testing that as soon as he gets his hands on it. From Pentax standpoint, they better have it right before that happens.

[Blue]

This Photokina has given us a hell of a lot of misunderstandings and misinformation.

I want to re-iterate my opinion: both Pentax Germany and Hoya are ****ing amateurs. At this time, at one of the most important photo shows, we don't need more rumors, but hard facts and a long term vision.

Again: bloody ****ing amateurs... All of this left a bad taste in my mouth.

Don't leave out the head of Pentax Imaging (Pentax U.S.A.) keep a low profile for 5 months and is seen in Germany fiddling with a camera phone with nothing related to Pentax. At least the Pentax Imaging web site is relatively up to date as far as we know.

[Urkeldaedalus]

This Photokina has given us a hell of a lot of misunderstandings and misinformation.

I want to re-iterate my opinion: both Pentax Germany and Hoya are ****ing amateurs. At this time, at one of the most important photo shows, we don't need more rumors, but hard facts and a long term vision.

Again: bloody ****ing amateurs... All of this left a bad taste in my mouth.

I would agree with this more than anything. Photokina has actually left me very excited about some of the new products Pentax is producing but not terribly confident in Pentax itself.

And Pentax Japan needs to give Pentax Germany a talking to. I don't think it's the best form for a Pentax rep to be talking smack about corporate at a huge trade show -- i.e. Blende saying that most of Pentax Germany thinks Pentax Japan is wrong. I recall Pentax Germany wasn't too happy when Pentax moved European headquarters from Germany to France, so maybe this is some of that continued bad blood shown here in this thread.

Pentax also needs someone on the PR side of things to interface with fans to either nip these rumors in the bud or explain Pentax's side of things. If the FA Limiteds are truly discontinued they should send out a release explaining why, and in this same release they should have some new exciting products that people can look forward to, even if those products aren't that exciting.

As for the FA Limiteds, whether or not they are discontinued, the writing has been on the wall for them for awhile now. I'm actually strangely glad if they do discontinue the FA Limiteds because they have given people the false impression that full frame will come eventually, when it's becoming increasingly clear that it's not. If Pentax takes this step, they need to follow it with coming out with new lenses so they have unquestionably the best APS-C lens lineup out there. You don't hear a lot of Olympus users complaining about full frame (true, they complain about other things). Why? Because the best lenses they have are in the 4/3 format.

[knoxploration]

OK Fine. Blende8 posts a 2 word item, of some conversation he says he heard and Flak backs it up.

Four words, actually:

"FA Limited are discontinued" <-- exact quote of Blende8, click to see original post.

Rather than backing it up, Falk then specifically stated that he did not hear this conversation himself, and that he would seek independent confirmation:

"As for FA Ltds. being discontinued, I must say I wasn't around when that was said. I am seeking confirmation now."

He then apparently gained that confirmation himself, and cited the specific document from which that information came:

"Ok, I was able to obtain this much of verifyable information:

The new German dealer price list from Pentax lists the FA Ltds. as "EOL" (end of life).

Every German dealer should be able to confirm."

Short of republishing the Pentax document that he cited -- something he likely cannot do publicly for copyright reasons -- I think he's been as clear and straightforward as it is possible to be in this matter.

Falk is a respected member of theis forum and should know better. Blende8 has no inside access and posted absolutely nothing to back up his "facts" Flak backed him up with nothing other than he "heard something"

No, he backed him up based on what he says is a specific reference to a document provided by Pentax, and based on Falk's past history, access to information, and contacts, I would tend to take his post at face value unless somebody cares to provide any reference showing it to be incorrect. He is not a member who has a history of posting unsubstantiated rumors.

Oh and I was a sale rep for 15 years. If one of my distributors gave out pre announcement information about anything, the distibutor could eaily be fined or loose his line. I find it very hard to believe anyone with an NDA would just give this out freely to a member of the public.

To be blunt, you don't know what Falk's source for the information was, nor whether he was given permission to share that information (and if so, whether the person providing him with that information and/or permission was positioned to do so.)

Nor have you given him an adequate opportunity to confirm that, nor to provide the further references you claim you want to see, before you chose to make this a personal attack on his character.

You also seem to have totally missed the point that far from spreading misinformation (as many do here), Falk was actually acting to stem the tide of misinformation by ensuring it was clear that the information he was providing was specific to one country only.

[rparmar]

Maybe tomorrow, they will officially announce that the line is gone. But posting that one second before it really happens is completely and undeniably irresponsible.

So Adam was "completely and undeniably irresponsible" in posting rumoured specs for the K-r on the home page of this forum? The one for which you are a moderator?

Look at it this way. You're a reporter for the Wall Street Journal, you report that Apple has decided to discontinue the iPad.

But we are not reporters for the Wall Street Journal, nor registered journalists of any type. We are members of a public forum chitting and chatting. In a rumours forum. So your comparison has no basis in fact.

[knoxploration]

So Adam was "completely and undeniably irresponsible" in posting rumoured specs for the K-r on the home page of this forum? The one for which you are a moderator?

...and the K-5. And the lens announcements. And assertions that the pricing information stated by Pentax USA publicly is incorrect and will soon be revised downwards.

Peter Zack is attempting to hold Falconeye to a significantly higher standard than that to which the site administration itself operates. If this is to be the standard forum members are to be held, then the site itself should be held to the same standards, and the rumors forum closed entirely (since it would be impossible to post any rumor of any kind, if a press release is first required.)

[Parallax]

Well, this thread was about an unsubstantiated rumor. Now it seems to be about, well, I guess I'm not sure what it is about beyond taking sides and further polarizing the members so in the interest of preventing more hard feelings...............CLOSED

[Adam]

This thread is now closed, as it has gotten derailed through heated discussion, unnecessary personal comments, as well as false or superfluous information. We invite you to continue discussion of the alleged discontinuation of the FA limited lens series in this thread (which, fortunately, doesn't appear like it's going to be happening anytime soon!).

I would also like to stress that the views of certain staff members in this thread do not represent those of the site. Our moderators volunteer to arbitrate the forums in addition to enjoying the site as regular, active forum members. The converse is not true. Their work is also always in good faith, and deserves to be positively recognized by the community. We're all human, and we all have bad days - that's normal.

Furthermore, I would like to remind users that it is not advisable to come up with unsupported or false rumors, as they just lead to flaming by others, and end up ruining everybody's day.

Finally, the OP has requested that the following information be appended as a closing remark to this thread:

Falk got a chance to beta test the K-7 and did anyone notice that he wasn't asked to beta test the new gear?

This is false. Correct is that Falk hasn't disclosed any information regarding this matter. If he had, he wouldn't have made said statement.