K-5 and pricing the market

stanleyk · 09-20-2010, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

You can't really compare street price to MSRP - it's apples to oranges.

Pentax has historically priced it's top-level dSLR between Canikon's top tier APS-c (i.e., 7D, D300) and second tier (i.e., D60, D90). Methinks Nikon has upset the apple cart with the D7000, stuffing it with features previously reserved for the level above. The D7000 announcement was too close to the K-5 for Pentax to really respond in kind, so I suspect that Pentax is currently evaluating its pricing strategy in light of the D7000. Unlike the folks on the Internet, Pentax can't make that decision overnight - there's probably a lot of spreadsheets and financial models that have to be studied.

Excellent and realistic analysis.

er1kksen · 09-20-2010, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by johnmflores

You can't really compare street price to MSRP - it's apples to oranges.

Pentax has historically priced it's top-level dSLR between Canikon's top tier APS-c (i.e., 7D, D300) and second tier (i.e., D60, D90). Methinks Nikon has upset the apple cart with the D7000, stuffing it with features previously reserved for the level above. The D7000 announcement was too close to the K-5 for Pentax to really respond in kind, so I suspect that Pentax is currently evaluating its pricing strategy in light of the D7000. Unlike the folks on the Internet, Pentax can't make that decision overnight - there's probably a lot of spreadsheets and financial models that have to be studied.

That does sound about right. Perhaps they were expecting the D7000 to come in at a higher price-point, at a more similar level to the D300s, or that the D7000 would be specified lower (more like an updated D90) and that the K-5 would be competing more against the D300s instead.

I'm still puzzled by the US-UK market pricing difference.

stanleyk · 09-20-2010, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by er1kksen

That does sound about right. Perhaps they were expecting the D7000 to come in at a higher price-point, at a more similar level to the D300s, or that the D7000 would be specified lower (more like an updated D90) and that the K-5 would be competing more against the D300s instead.

I'm still puzzled by the US-UK market pricing difference.

It could have something to do with the probability of the US having to ultimately inflate our way out the consumer/govt debt crisis we are in. There's just going to be no appetite in the US right now for the kind of level headed, hard nosed budget decisions being made in the UK and Germany right now. For some reason a significant portion of our population is still wedded to the idea that cutting taxes will somehow cut the budget deficit. Didn't work under Reagan and didn't work under Bush so maybe third time is the charm. I can fully understand to some degree the reluctance to raise taxes given that Americans are addicted to spending not saving and anything that cuts into their ability to forgo the future for immediate gratification is a philosophical lifestyle change that will take years to accept. That said, there really is no way out other than to raise taxes and reduce spending at the federal level (and this means the defense budget has to come under the axe because you can't get the money anywhere else). Then Americans themselves have to stop shopping and start saving. But....it ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

Or it could be the Japanese realize that Americans are just dumber than Europeans....................

stanleyk · 09-20-2010, 01:38 PM

I'd also like to add that we aren't going to spend our way out this either contrary to what some in Washington and else where think.

And...the US price will probably be lower in 30 days.

alexeyga · 09-20-2010, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by er1kksen

That does sound about right. Perhaps they were expecting the D7000 to come in at a higher price-point, at a more similar level to the D300s, or that the D7000 would be specified lower (more like an updated D90) and that the K-5 would be competing more against the D300s instead.

I'm still puzzled by the US-UK market pricing difference.

D300s's sales must be really low, so Nikon didn't hesitate to cannibalize it with the D7000.... though my guess is, when D7K starts shipping D300s will become a lot more affordable... it already dropped in price considerably...

But bringing out a direct 7D/D300s competitor a year later at a higher price... Good luck Pentax.... K7 was a missed bus as it was what K20 should've been... And K5 is exactly what K7 should have been... a year early and it's game changer, a year too late.. and it's just too late....

er1kksen · 09-20-2010, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by alexeyga

D300s's sales must be really low, so Nikon didn't hesitate to cannibalize it with the D7000.... though my guess is, when D7K starts shipping D300s will become a lot more affordable... it already dropped in price considerably...

But bringing out a direct 7D/D300s competitor a year later at a higher price... Good luck Pentax.... K7 was a missed bus as it was what K20 should've been... And K5 is exactly what K7 should have been... a year early and it's game changer, a year too late.. and it's just too late....

I'd have to disagree, it seems very much on par with the just-announced D7000 and 60D. Now it just needs to be priced to compete with them rather than the older semipro generation. And at least in the UK, it is. In the US it's a bit more confusing.

adamfogerty · 09-20-2010, 01:49 PM

All the comments saying Pentax should sell the camera for less make me smile.

Do you not think they would, if they could?

It's a case of economies of scale.

Canon and Nikon sell a lot more volume, so their margins can be smaller.

Pentax doesn't shift as many cameras, so they have to make more on each camera.

I don't think there's a person on here who doesn't want the K-5 to be cheaper (I'd like it for a dollar, please), but it is what it is. Pentax have to try to make money - it's a business after all, not a charity.

Adam

Adam · 09-20-2010, 01:49 PM

You should be comparing the K-r to those cameras, and the K-5 to cameras a notch higher, methinks.

alexeyga · 09-20-2010, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by er1kksen

I'd have to disagree, it seems very much on par with the just-announced D7000 and 60D. Now it just needs to be priced to compete with them rather than the older semipro generation. And at least in the UK, it is. In the US it's a bit more confusing.

I guess the biggest confusion here is price... Nobody really digs it.... K5 isn't a bad camera... Looks great, awesome specs... I hope they have fixes all K7's kiddish bugs... just that its price doesn't make any sense...

er1kksen · 09-20-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Adam

You should be comparing the K-r to those cameras, and the K-5 to cameras a notch higher, methinks.

K-r to 60D? Yeah, I can see that. The D7000 seems to me more competitive with the K-5. While the K-5 is also pretty competitive compared to the D300s and 7D, both of those are now practically "old hat" and are likely to be replaced within the year. I'd rather see the K-5 competing at the D7000's price-point (as it is, at least in the UK market) where it would be considered class-leading as opposed to the D300s/7D pricepoint, where it's a solid option (the numbers matter less in that segment than the actual performance) but not the clear choice and likely to be outclassed when those two models are next updated.

bfo · 09-20-2010, 02:14 PM

First street prices in Norway suggest that the K-5 is approx.
- $100 more than Nikon D7000.
- $150 more than Canon 60D
- same price as Canon 7D

As far as I can remember, the K-5 is priced about $100 more than the K-7 compared at release.

Graham67 · 09-20-2010, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Adam

You should be comparing the K-r to those cameras, and the K-5 to cameras a notch higher, methinks.

Agreed, with regards Canon. The K-5 is more akin to the 7D than the 60D, and compares very favourably on price and spec'.

Us Brits have paid through the nose for a long time on all photographic gear compared to CONUS, and it's very welcome to see a more reasonable price over here.

I've just told my wife what I want for Christmas. : o )

P.s. *Who* exactly would buy a 60D? Possibly Canon's most misguided release, ever.

goubejp · 09-20-2010, 02:30 PM

First prices in france :
K5 at 1249 euros - 50 euros less than a Canon 7D
D7000 at 1349 euros with the 18-105 kit; missing info is the price of the K5 kit with 18-135 but seems on par with competitors

Graham67 · 09-20-2010, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by alexeyga

D300s's sales must be really low, so Nikon didn't hesitate to cannibalize it with the D7000.... though my guess is, when D7K starts shipping D300s will become a lot more affordable... it already dropped in price considerably...

But bringing out a direct 7D/D300s competitor a year later at a higher price... Good luck Pentax.... K7 was a missed bus as it was what K20 should've been... And K5 is exactly what K7 should have been... a year early and it's game changer, a year too late.. and it's just too late....

Listen to yourself, ffs.

Why don't you hole yourself and your family up in a barn in Texas and take on the FBI in protest.

:-P

forensicscientist · 09-20-2010, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Graham67

Listen to yourself, ffs.

Why don't you hole yourself and your family up in a barn in Texas and take on the FBI in protest.

:-P

no love for Texas??

09-20-2010, 01:49 PM	#38
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09-20-2010, 01:14 PM	#31
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	Originally posted by johnmflores You can't really compare street price to MSRP - it's apples to oranges. Pentax has historically priced it's top-level dSLR between Canikon's top tier APS-c (i.e., 7D, D300) and second tier (i.e., D60, D90). Methinks Nikon has upset the apple cart with the D7000, stuffing it with features previously reserved for the level above. The D7000 announcement was too close to the K-5 for Pentax to really respond in kind, so I suspect that Pentax is currently evaluating its pricing strategy in light of the D7000. Unlike the folks on the Internet, Pentax can't make that decision overnight - there's probably a lot of spreadsheets and financial models that have to be studied. Excellent and realistic analysis.

09-20-2010, 01:19 PM	#32
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801 Original Poster	Originally posted by johnmflores You can't really compare street price to MSRP - it's apples to oranges. Pentax has historically priced it's top-level dSLR between Canikon's top tier APS-c (i.e., 7D, D300) and second tier (i.e., D60, D90). Methinks Nikon has upset the apple cart with the D7000, stuffing it with features previously reserved for the level above. The D7000 announcement was too close to the K-5 for Pentax to really respond in kind, so I suspect that Pentax is currently evaluating its pricing strategy in light of the D7000. Unlike the folks on the Internet, Pentax can't make that decision overnight - there's probably a lot of spreadsheets and financial models that have to be studied. That does sound about right. Perhaps they were expecting the D7000 to come in at a higher price-point, at a more similar level to the D300s, or that the D7000 would be specified lower (more like an updated D90) and that the K-5 would be competing more against the D300s instead. I'm still puzzled by the US-UK market pricing difference.

09-20-2010, 01:35 PM	#33
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	Originally posted by er1kksen That does sound about right. Perhaps they were expecting the D7000 to come in at a higher price-point, at a more similar level to the D300s, or that the D7000 would be specified lower (more like an updated D90) and that the K-5 would be competing more against the D300s instead. I'm still puzzled by the US-UK market pricing difference. It could have something to do with the probability of the US having to ultimately inflate our way out the consumer/govt debt crisis we are in. There's just going to be no appetite in the US right now for the kind of level headed, hard nosed budget decisions being made in the UK and Germany right now. For some reason a significant portion of our population is still wedded to the idea that cutting taxes will somehow cut the budget deficit. Didn't work under Reagan and didn't work under Bush so maybe third time is the charm. I can fully understand to some degree the reluctance to raise taxes given that Americans are addicted to spending not saving and anything that cuts into their ability to forgo the future for immediate gratification is a philosophical lifestyle change that will take years to accept. That said, there really is no way out other than to raise taxes and reduce spending at the federal level (and this means the defense budget has to come under the axe because you can't get the money anywhere else). Then Americans themselves have to stop shopping and start saving. But....it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Or it could be the Japanese realize that Americans are just dumber than Europeans....................

09-20-2010, 01:38 PM	#34
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	I'd also like to add that we aren't going to spend our way out this either contrary to what some in Washington and else where think. And...the US price will probably be lower in 30 days.

09-20-2010, 01:43 PM	#35
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	Originally posted by er1kksen That does sound about right. Perhaps they were expecting the D7000 to come in at a higher price-point, at a more similar level to the D300s, or that the D7000 would be specified lower (more like an updated D90) and that the K-5 would be competing more against the D300s instead. I'm still puzzled by the US-UK market pricing difference. D300s's sales must be really low, so Nikon didn't hesitate to cannibalize it with the D7000.... though my guess is, when D7K starts shipping D300s will become a lot more affordable... it already dropped in price considerably... But bringing out a direct 7D/D300s competitor a year later at a higher price... Good luck Pentax.... K7 was a missed bus as it was what K20 should've been... And K5 is exactly what K7 should have been... a year early and it's game changer, a year too late.. and it's just too late....

09-20-2010, 01:46 PM	#36
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801 Original Poster	Originally posted by alexeyga D300s's sales must be really low, so Nikon didn't hesitate to cannibalize it with the D7000.... though my guess is, when D7K starts shipping D300s will become a lot more affordable... it already dropped in price considerably... But bringing out a direct 7D/D300s competitor a year later at a higher price... Good luck Pentax.... K7 was a missed bus as it was what K20 should've been... And K5 is exactly what K7 should have been... a year early and it's game changer, a year too late.. and it's just too late.... I'd have to disagree, it seems very much on par with the just-announced D7000 and 60D. Now it just needs to be priced to compete with them rather than the older semipro generation. And at least in the UK, it is. In the US it's a bit more confusing.

09-20-2010, 01:49 PM	#37
adamfogerty Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 47	All the comments saying Pentax should sell the camera for less make me smile. Do you not think they would, if they could? It's a case of economies of scale. Canon and Nikon sell a lot more volume, so their margins can be smaller. Pentax doesn't shift as many cameras, so they have to make more on each camera. I don't think there's a person on here who doesn't want the K-5 to be cheaper (I'd like it for a dollar, please), but it is what it is. Pentax have to try to make money - it's a business after all, not a charity. Adam

09-20-2010, 01:54 PM	#39
alexeyga Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 838	Originally posted by er1kksen I'd have to disagree, it seems very much on par with the just-announced D7000 and 60D. Now it just needs to be priced to compete with them rather than the older semipro generation. And at least in the UK, it is. In the US it's a bit more confusing. I guess the biggest confusion here is price... Nobody really digs it.... K5 isn't a bad camera... Looks great, awesome specs... I hope they have fixes all K7's kiddish bugs... just that its price doesn't make any sense...

09-20-2010, 01:57 PM	#40
er1kksen Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Forestville, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,801 Original Poster	Originally posted by Adam You should be comparing the K-r to those cameras, and the K-5 to cameras a notch higher, methinks. K-r to 60D? Yeah, I can see that. The D7000 seems to me more competitive with the K-5. While the K-5 is also pretty competitive compared to the D300s and 7D, both of those are now practically "old hat" and are likely to be replaced within the year. I'd rather see the K-5 competing at the D7000's price-point (as it is, at least in the UK market) where it would be considered class-leading as opposed to the D300s/7D pricepoint, where it's a solid option (the numbers matter less in that segment than the actual performance) but not the clear choice and likely to be outclassed when those two models are next updated.

09-20-2010, 02:14 PM	#41
bfo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Bærum, Norway Posts: 101	First street prices in Norway suggest that the K-5 is approx. - $100 more than Nikon D7000. - $150 more than Canon 60D - same price as Canon 7D As far as I can remember, the K-5 is priced about $100 more than the K-7 compared at release.

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09-20-2010, 02:29 PM	#42
Graham67 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Leicester, England Photos: Gallery Posts: 89	Originally posted by Adam You should be comparing the K-r to those cameras, and the K-5 to cameras a notch higher, methinks. Agreed, with regards Canon. The K-5 is more akin to the 7D than the 60D, and compares very favourably on price and spec'. Us Brits have paid through the nose for a long time on all photographic gear compared to CONUS, and it's very welcome to see a more reasonable price over here. I've just told my wife what I want for Christmas. : o ) P.s. Who exactly would buy a 60D? Possibly Canon's most misguided release, ever.

09-20-2010, 02:30 PM	#43
goubejp Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: France Photos: Albums Posts: 804	First prices in france : K5 at 1249 euros - 50 euros less than a Canon 7D D7000 at 1349 euros with the 18-105 kit; missing info is the price of the K5 kit with 18-135 but seems on par with competitors

09-20-2010, 02:34 PM	#44
Graham67 Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Leicester, England Photos: Gallery Posts: 89	Originally posted by alexeyga D300s's sales must be really low, so Nikon didn't hesitate to cannibalize it with the D7000.... though my guess is, when D7K starts shipping D300s will become a lot more affordable... it already dropped in price considerably... But bringing out a direct 7D/D300s competitor a year later at a higher price... Good luck Pentax.... K7 was a missed bus as it was what K20 should've been... And K5 is exactly what K7 should have been... a year early and it's game changer, a year too late.. and it's just too late.... Listen to yourself, ffs. Why don't you hole yourself and your family up in a barn in Texas and take on the FBI in protest. :-P

09-20-2010, 02:42 PM	#45
forensicscientist Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DFW Texas and Michigan - I commute :) Posts: 1,012	Originally posted by Graham67 Listen to yourself, ffs. Why don't you hole yourself and your family up in a barn in Texas and take on the FBI in protest. :-P no love for Texas??