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09-23-2010, 11:48 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wololo Quote
Pentax made many things fine this time. An good update of the successful kx: more colors, a colorful lens, aa-batteries. No pro DSLR, but maybe a good money maker!

And they gave us good update of the not so successful k7: better sensor, better af with a great all-day-zoom 18-135 mm. And they tried a new motor concept DC instead SDM.

Also don't forget the huge success of the new 645D and the lens 50 mm f2.8 AW (all weather). New AW lenses will coming for this system.

Pentax realized THREE concepts which might be very successful. So what do you want more?! I also wish a bigger lens sortiment (some WR limited), but all things need time. It needs amazing computer-calculations for a new lens concept. Its no work of days or weeks. Its a work of months!
Wololo, I said as much. Look at my message again. I'm not asking Pentax to introduce everything at once. I'm asking them to give us some kind of road map. Without it, given Pentax's track record in the past, it's impossible to know what to expect. Which makes it harder to resist buying products from the competition.

09-23-2010, 12:01 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
Wololo, I said as much. Look at my message again. I'm not asking Pentax to introduce everything at once. I'm asking them to give us some kind of road map. Without it, given Pentax's track record in the past, it's impossible to know what to expect. Which makes it harder to resist buying products from the competition.
fully agree. i'm quite surprised there's no mention of a roadmap at photokina or maybe "we" on the internet cloud have not heard.

with the price of the k5 as high in the us today (i know, wait until it settles), the D7000 is looking very convincing and Nikon has released a slew of new lenses lately, some way out of reach but nevertheless, you see quite a bit of progress.

BTW, anyone knows the official release date for the Kr and K5?
09-23-2010, 12:03 PM   #48
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Things I see as a reasonable possibility.

New strobes. Their old ones need replacing, and there shouldn't be much involved in fixing what is wrong with them.

A couple new lenses. They haven't done much more in the passt, so I don't expect them to really ramp up anything extra. Possibly more than a couple if exchange rates change enough to favor higher sales volume and cheaper production costs.

I expect they will be working on something EVIL to both keep up with the Joneses in that area and fill the gap in their lineup where a decent bridge camera will go. I don't expect to hear anything about it until it's ready fro sale. Hoya seems to not be big on paper launches and don't spend any PR dollars until there is a product to go with the PR.

given the existence of the 645D, I don't think you will see full frame unless the sensor prices come down and they get a nice EVIL camera up to replace the entry level DSLR. Full frame for other lineups are either high margin, or a loss leader as a halo model to demonstrate technology. If the 645D doesn't cover that niche, a FF won't either. The lineup was previously P&S, entry DSLR, prosumer DSLR. Now it is P&S, entry DSLR, prosumer DSLR with more pro emphasis, and medium format.

I see it evolving into P&S, EVIL with aps-c, prosumer DSLR with APS-c, medium format. If full frame starts breaking into the $1299 price point, It will probably evolve into P&S, EVIL with aps-c, DSLR body with aps-c, same body with FF, medium format. But that's more than a year out.
09-23-2010, 12:13 PM   #49
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Well I think they are going in the right direction
One DSLR hit (Kx) and two potential more (Kr and K5)
Solid prime lens base (even DPReview admit this)
And correcting some of their previous shortcomings (AF)
To say nothing of the 645D
Question is
If HOYA sell them then who to?
Canikon - please no, and even if so, only to the Nik bit - the Can bit has always appeared clunky to my eyes and experience
Either companies would probably cannibalise
Who else? Please tell me
I sincerely hope that HOYA realise that they have acquired a Brand-Name that is probably regarded amongst the top three historically (all formats considered)

09-23-2010, 01:17 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by climbertrev Quote
Well I think they are going in the right direction
One DSLR hit (Kx) and two potential more (Kr and K5)
Solid prime lens base (even DPReview admit this)
And correcting some of their previous shortcomings (AF)
To say nothing of the 645D
Question is
If HOYA sell them then who to?
Canikon - please no, and even if so, only to the Nik bit - the Can bit has always appeared clunky to my eyes and experience
Either companies would probably cannibalise
Who else? Please tell me
I sincerely hope that HOYA realise that they have acquired a Brand-Name that is probably regarded amongst the top three historically (all formats considered)
+1

I think its a mistake to keep pinning hopes on a Pentax knock-out application that will make it Number 1. Nice fantasy but difficult to come up with in reality. Steady, incremental improvements help build a brand that gets the job done.

Yesterday, my older brother gave me a 30 year old small Pentax ME Super film camera built in 1980. It had been sitting in a cardboard box in his basement for prob. 20 years, but i got so excited from holding it that i drove down and got a roll of film, came back, figured out how to open the back and thread the film in. As soon as my finger hit the half shutter, the meter leds in the viewfinder flickered on and i enjoyed the next hour taking carefully selected images :-) I think thats where Pentax needs to go, they need to design and build cameras that inspire "the everyday person" to go out and enjoy taking pictures, not necessarily to build the heavy cameras/lenses that the pro photographer will use on the NFL goal line.

So that kind of strategy would imply, evil and aps cameras, and some day a FF, but not next year. We have a coupla older people in the 70 member camera club i belong to. Some are getting unsteady and can only walk short distances from the car. But yet i see them tottering around around with a heavy D300/f2.8 lens combination. Photography doesn't have to be about weightlifting to be inspired :-)

Go Pentax! Be different

PS: at our last meeting/competition, a picture from my humble K20 won the first place ribbon :-)

Last edited by philbaum; 09-23-2010 at 01:26 PM.
09-23-2010, 01:20 PM   #51
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Samsung or Samsung, but probably Pentax is still asking to muc / Samsung not willing to pay enough.
09-23-2010, 01:35 PM   #52
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@Biro

A lens roadmap would be nice. But I guess it's too early for decisions. Pentax cannot be sure how many 645D are wanted worldwide. And we don't know much about the new DC motor concept.

The new created lens 55mm f2.8 AW for 645D has SDM, same with the DA* premium line. More important than a new lens might be the question: What to do with all the new SDM lenses? Replace the motor? Upgrade the motor? Doing nothing and hope that all things become fine?

Currently there is a big need of WR wide angle lenses for 645D and K-mount. If K5 sells well we also might hope of a DA* 18-135 f2.8 which replace the DA* 16-50 & DA* 50-135. Maybe for 1100 € late next year.
09-23-2010, 05:32 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Samsung or Samsung, but probably Pentax is still asking to muc / Samsung not willing to pay enough.
What?

09-23-2010, 08:46 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Biro Quote
But Pentax should tell us what direction they're headed and further indicate if there will be significant camera or lens introductions in the next six months, year, whatever. They don't have to give away all of their secrets.
I think you are asking/expecting way too much from Pentax, or from most other corporations. It is simply not a good idea to give away plans which may or may not work out. Will Apple tell us ahead what we can expect in iPhone 5 or confirm/deny that a new iPad version will be released before the end of the year? NO!

Product planning / release (e.g. new lenses) can be affected by many things like market condition, and also the sales success of K-r and K-5. We have witnessed product listed in previous road map that got shelved (e.g. SDM teleconvertor), and products not listed got released. And announcing a new camera system (be it mirrorless or FF), for example, with no details, no specs, and no pricing ('cos they wouldn't know themselves) can kill current camera sales.

I don't think Pentax, nor any other large company, would do what you want.
09-24-2010, 01:26 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by climbertrev Quote
If HOYA sell them then who to?
Canikon - please no, and even if so, only to the Nik bit - the Can bit has always appeared clunky to my eyes and experience
Either companies would probably cannibalise
Who else? Please tell me
I sincerely hope that HOYA realise that they have acquired a Brand-Name that is probably regarded amongst the top three historically (all formats considered)
QuoteOriginally posted by JoepLX3 Quote
Samsung or Samsung, but probably Pentax is still asking to muc / Samsung not willing to pay enough.
QuoteOriginally posted by nosnoop Quote
I think you are asking/expecting way too much from Pentax, or from most other corporations. It is simply not a good idea to give away plans which may or may not work out. Will Apple tell us ahead what we can expect in iPhone 5 or confirm/deny that a new iPad version will be released before the end of the year? NO!

Product planning / release (e.g. new lenses) can be affected by many things like market condition, and also the sales success of K-r and K-5. We have witnessed product listed in previous road map that got shelved (e.g. SDM teleconvertor), and products not listed got released. And announcing a new camera system (be it mirrorless or FF), for example, with no details, no specs, and no pricing ('cos they wouldn't know themselves) can kill current camera sales.

I don't think Pentax, nor any other large company, would do what you want.
In business to business it is very common to share roadmaps. So it depends on the investment over time you are asking from your customers. Which depends heavily on how much glass you sell at which price compared to bodies.

Nice read on the future:
Samsung disrupts camera market hierarchy
09-24-2010, 02:33 AM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I think thats where Pentax needs to go, they need to design and build cameras that inspire "the everyday person" to go out and enjoy taking pictures, not necessarily to build the heavy cameras/lenses that the pro photographer will use on the NFL goal line.
Yes!

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Go Pentax! Be different
Yes! BTW, when I was talking about niche products above, I meant really distinctive cameras. (Would have typed more but my two year old had decided I'd had computer time).

Such as: a WR camera that cannot be confused for a Nikon/Canon body. Something a step closer to the W80 in appearance and ruggedness. Who says a DSLR has to have black skin and smooth shoulders etc? Make it very grippable so you can shoot one handed in a war zone or from a speeding toboggan or dodging a rally car. And the premium small/awesome/uncrippled version: styled to match the FA lenses.

How do you pay for all this design and small run construction? Charge more. Buyers of such cameras won't upgrade every 18 months but you'll bet they'll pay for the camera they want.

QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
PS: at our last meeting/competition, a picture from my humble K20 won the first place ribbon :-)
Nice work!
09-24-2010, 02:52 AM   #57
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To be honest, I expected a bit more. not that much more but at least another lens. Maybe also a body but that would ahve to be a cheaper WR camera, priced at a level that won't discourage someone who wants WR in is first DSLR (and I a quite confident that that may be higher than the "other"entry levels. However, releasing that now would probably mean less K-5 sold so NOT doing that now, but wait a bit may be smart.
Lenses: Over the last few years Pentax has released multiple lenses, either "original"or "L"or "WR" modifications. This year seems to lag a bit. What is in the line will eventually come but I am afraid that 645D has taken over some of the releases.
09-24-2010, 06:36 AM   #58
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Uccemebug-

I think you are correct. Pentax is a "niche" company in the way Leica is. I'm not comparing the two, but Pentax will never be Canon or Nikon. They will never have the large range of bodies and lenses the two offer. They make high quality enthusiast products. If you think about it, most of the pictures are taken (excuse if I'm going back to my film days) between 28-85mm. That's why their lens line up looks like it does. Their zooms cover the basic ranges you need. I would expect to see more of the same from them. I'm very happy with Pentax. I also like my Olympus M 4/3. I don't ever need anything above 100mm below say 15mm so I'm set. If you do, I just don't think Pentax is the system you should invest in. That's my two cents. Oh, I do think they will do mirrorless eventually. Full Frame, I doubt it. That's what the 645D is for.

If you stop to think about it, in a way, the 645D sort of sums up what Pentax is about. Note that when company spokespersons have talked about the camera they have mentioned "landscape photography." Not that you can't do other types with it, but it is sort of designed with a niche in mind.

I seriously doubt Pentax has the deep pockets necessary to compete head to head with Nikon or Canon. And do we really need another Nikon and Canon? Olympus is doing the smart thing too. They are focusing on a product line, M 4/3 they can excel in and offer quality products in. I have yet to talk to a dissatisfied E-P2 user. The Mu43 forum is full of people completely happy with their gear and really enjoying photography. Several of the Pentax users on that forum have noticed the grumpiness of this forum though. :-)
09-24-2010, 07:14 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
If you stop to think about it, in a way, the 645D sort of sums up what Pentax is about. Note that when company spokespersons have talked about the camera they have mentioned "landscape photography." Not that you can't do other types with it, but it is sort of designed with a niche in mind.
Agreed!

QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I seriously doubt Pentax has the deep pockets necessary to compete head to head with Nikon or Canon. And do we really need another Nikon and Canon?
Exactly. I came to Pentax because I knew their reputation for optics and I liked what Pentax was doing with the early digital SLR bodies. Nothing interests me in the Canon and Nikon product line (except the support for manual focus lenses in the D7000).

QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
I have yet to talk to a dissatisfied E-P2 user.
P.S. They must exist, those cameras are piling up in the used stores here in Tokyo. But I know what you mean about the happiness of their users as a whole.
09-24-2010, 07:44 AM   #60
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As someone else mentioned there is a rumored flash in the works for next spring.

DA* II lineup that replaces SDM with the new motor and drops screwdrive if it is more reliable.

Maybe a prime between the D FA 100 and the DA* 200.

A limited edition K-5 bundle that packs the FA Limited trio.
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