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09-20-2010, 07:42 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
This has little to do with Pentax/Hoya. It's the Yen at record highs versus every major currency. Why do you think the biggest world financial story this week has been the Japanese government's politically mandated sale of reserv assets:

Yen Falls From 15-Year High Against Dollar After Japan Sells Its Currency - Bloomberg

You have too understand how difficult it is for Japanese companies these days with a high Yen. Whatever they sell overseas loses money. They have to make it all up in the home country.

The K-5 has more features than the D7000. It's a more robust camera, so a $200 price point premium at MSRP is justified (with MSRP being an anachronism in any case). I agree the D7000 has caused some pricing ruffles, but aggressive pricing is a mid-tier factor in autos, TV's, etc. Nothing new here.

As for lenses, that's almost all Yen movement. Nikon lenses have rocketed up which is why they (and Sony) have brought in budget lines. More DAL coming from Pentax in 2011 I'd say.
I don't dispute this at all. I lost my job a year ago after Hewlett-Packard took over my former company, EDS... and unfortunately I have been unemployed ever since... so I keep my eyes on all the economic news. But, aren't Canon and Nikon also still HQ'd in Japan and thus also highly affected by high Yen? Granted they both have much more capital under their belts and can afford better economies of scale, but the point is that Pentax is not a well-known/regarded brand here in the States where there is much market potential and if they can't price themselves competitively (as they have done in the past) there is just no way that they can gain market share. More than likely they will lose market share, further hurting their economies of scale and their ability to produce and sell quantities sufficient-enough to aid in price-reduction to a point that is acceptable to potential consumers.

09-20-2010, 07:56 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
That being said, I don't agree with Pentax only having price as a selling point in the past. The construction and focus on primes has been very nice. However, all we get from Pentax this week has been a plastic averagely fast prime and a slow super zoom.
You are correct, I should have worded that differently. But, as you mentioned, one of the other things Pentax was mainly known for was their superior primes (just as Canon has been known for their superior tele's). But, as you also pointed out, they really haven't developed a lot of new prime lenses. They still seem to be pushing their older Limited's and such (all very fine lenses, I'm sure) but they have not been upgrading them to keep pace with the competition. For example, how many weather-resistant primes does Pentax currently offer? How many primes with silent and fast SDM do they offer? I'm not sure of the number, but I doubt it is very many. Which leads us to the next one-time standout feature of Pentax... weather resistance at a low price. Why make so many bodies weatherproof (K10, K20, K7, K5) and not offer weatherproofed lenses with optics comparable to Limited's? After all, why should you have to sacrifice image quality for the sake of weather resistance?

Maybe it's just me, but so many of these things just seem like they would be "logical" steps for any major corporation, yet the left hand of Pentax doesn't seem to have a clue what the right hand is doing.
09-20-2010, 07:57 PM   #33
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How much of this is actually Nikon putting an extra low price point on the D7000 rather than Pentax making a mis-step by pricing the K-5 too high? If Nikon is doing it based on screwing up the competition it will be hard for Pentax to beat it, because they may be thinking that if they drop it now, or soon, it'll only strengthen the perception that they're being wagged by the dogs.

Hope I'm wrong, because I've had my heart set on a K-5, but the higher price has me a bit bummed. Not because it would cost me that much more but because it will hurt Pentax hard with first time DSLR buyers, and I want Pentax to grow more powerful in the market, not struggle.
09-20-2010, 08:21 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by TiminyCricket Quote
You are correct, I should have worded that differently. But, as you mentioned, one of the other things Pentax was mainly known for was their superior primes (just as Canon has been known for their superior tele's). But, as you also pointed out, they really haven't developed a lot of new prime lenses. They still seem to be pushing their older Limited's and such (all very fine lenses, I'm sure) but they have not been upgrading them to keep pace with the competition. For example, how many weather-resistant primes does Pentax currently offer? How many primes with silent and fast SDM do they offer? I'm not sure of the number, but I doubt it is very many. Which leads us to the next one-time standout feature of Pentax... weather resistance at a low price. Why make so many bodies weatherproof (K10, K20, K7, K5) and not offer weatherproofed lenses with optics comparable to Limited's? After all, why should you have to sacrifice image quality for the sake of weather resistance?

Maybe it's just me, but so many of these things just seem like they would be "logical" steps for any major corporation, yet the left hand of Pentax doesn't seem to have a clue what the right hand is doing.
I agree with you completely there. I didn't bother getting my K-7 with the WR kit lens and even avoided the urge after when I wanted more WR lenses.

The last quality WR lens was the D-FA 100mm WR macro. I think Pentax really hit a home run with that lens all things considered. It's attached to my K-7 as we speak. High quality optics from their historic lens with better bokeh and WR.

09-20-2010, 08:37 PM   #35
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I got a response from Amazon about their pre-order price guarantee. It does apply to electronics:

QuoteQuote:
Yes, Pre-Order Price Guarantee is also applied to electronics. *Whenever you pre-order a book, CD, video, DVD, software, electronics or video game, the price we charge when we ship it to you will be the lowest price offered by Amazon.com between the time you placed your order and the release date.

If the price changes before the item ships, you'll see the updated price in Your Account. *If the price changes after your shipment is already being prepared, you'll receive a refund within 24 - 48 hours of the release date.

Our Pre-Order Price Guarantee doesn't apply to items (or prices) offered by other sellers on our site.
09-20-2010, 09:05 PM   #36
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1600 yen higher than D7000 in Japan

The Japanese website has just list the price for K5:

K5 body: 125,800 yen, ‰¿Ši.com - ƒyƒ“ƒ^ƒbƒNƒX PENTAX K-5 ƒ{ƒfƒB ‰¿Ši”äŠr
k5 body+18-55wr: 139300 yen
k5 body+18-135wr: 170800 yen

for comparison:

D7000 body: 124,200 yen , ‰¿Ši.com - ƒjƒRƒ“ D7000 ƒ{ƒfƒB ‰¿Ši”äŠr

1600 yen less than K5, which is like less than USD$20.

so you can see the difference is not that much.
09-20-2010, 09:09 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by spmcrq Quote
The Japanese website has just list the price for K5:

K5 body: 125,800 yen, ‰¿Ši.com - ƒyƒ“ƒ^ƒbƒNƒX PENTAX K-5 ƒ{ƒfƒB ‰¿Ši”äŠr
k5 body+18-55wr: 139300 yen
k5 body+18-135wr: 170800 yen

for comparison:

D7000 body: 124,200 yen , ‰¿Ši.com - ƒjƒRƒ“ D7000 ƒ{ƒfƒB ‰¿Ši”äŠr

1600 yen less than K5, which is like less than USD$20.

so you can see the difference is not that much.


Wow...! Thanks for posting. Even given the different pricing in different countries the difference CAN'T be too awfully much.

Good news!!! : )
09-20-2010, 09:31 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
A dpreview member who goes by the name of hermanlee has just recently posted that the K-5 street price will actually be $1399 rather than the MSR $1600 quoted on dpreview and other sites.

See here: Falk Lumo: Photokina 2010: First impressions

Looks like bad news for the Pentax economic doomsday crew that's been so hard at work these past few...
Amazon.com: Pentax K-5 16.3 MP Digital SLR with 3-Inch LCD (Black Body Only): Camera & Photo

1600....Strange

09-20-2010, 09:32 PM   #39
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Everybody was surprised at the announced Nikon's D7000 price.

Have you guys actually considered that they are *underpricing* just to maintain market share (as the D7000 will be the base price everyone will compare against, like you're all doing)?

Companies with deep pockets take strategies like these to keep investors happy with sales reports when economy is slow.

Think about it.
09-20-2010, 09:42 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
I agree with you completely there. I didn't bother getting my K-7 with the WR kit lens and even avoided the urge after when I wanted more WR lenses.

The last quality WR lens was the D-FA 100mm WR macro. I think Pentax really hit a home run with that lens all things considered. It's attached to my K-7 as we speak. High quality optics from their historic lens with better bokeh and WR.
At the moment the only WR lens I own is the DA* 16-50, which I bought 2nd hand off the B&H web-site for $579 in August of 2008. I'm not sure why it was returned by the previous owner, as after I received it I posted some sample pictures on here and it appears to be a good copy. Also, no problems with the SDM so far (knock on wood). Absolutely wonderful build quality feel. Whenever I finally manage to find a job again I would very much like to get some more DA* lenses.

But, there are times when I want to travel light and the 16-50mm is just a bit too heavy and/or it interferes with ability to use the onboard flash. That is where the allure of a few small, high-quality, weatherproof primes would come in for me.
09-20-2010, 10:07 PM - 1 Like   #41
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TiminyCricket - good luck on finding a new job soon. Being unemployed is really hard on people.

Back to cameras now, the K5 sounds really great and I want one - just that my wife is expecting our first baby so I really shouldn't... Just like I want that juicy new Fuji X100 - what a beauty. Back to Pentax for a moment - the K5 is a worthy upgrade from my K10D.
09-20-2010, 11:45 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by TiminyCricket Quote
At the moment the only WR lens I own is the DA* 16-50, which I bought 2nd hand off the B&H web-site for $579 in August of 2008. I'm not sure why it was returned by the previous owner, as after I received it I posted some sample pictures on here and it appears to be a good copy. Also, no problems with the SDM so far (knock on wood). Absolutely wonderful build quality feel. Whenever I finally manage to find a job again I would very much like to get some more DA* lenses.

But, there are times when I want to travel light and the 16-50mm is just a bit too heavy and/or it interferes with ability to use the onboard flash. That is where the allure of a few small, high-quality, weatherproof primes would come in for me.
I'm in the same boat (unemployed). Although I have been selling things and have low expenses, so I could stand to "help the economy" a bit if Pentax releases some interesting stuff. Yeah, I agree in that lenses like the DA* are heavy. I much prefer primes myself (my last 3 or 4 were primes). D-FA WR primes would be quite manageable and pretty reasonable priced (the 100mm WR macro is 240g / 12oz, 2.6 x 3.2 inches for reference).


QuoteOriginally posted by Zarkon Quote
Back to cameras now, the K5 sounds really great and I want one - just that my wife is expecting our first baby so I really shouldn't... Just like I want that juicy new Fuji X100 - what a beauty. Back to Pentax for a moment - the K5 is a worthy upgrade from my K10D.
The K-5 does soon good overall, especially coming from a K10D. I went from a *ist DS to the K-7... so maybe I'm a little spoiled by the big jump.

Sorry a bit more off topic posting.
09-21-2010, 05:33 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by TiminyCricket Quote
I don't dispute this at all. I lost my job a year ago after Hewlett-Packard took over my former company, EDS... and unfortunately I have been unemployed ever since... so I keep my eyes on all the economic news. But, aren't Canon and Nikon also still HQ'd in Japan and thus also highly affected by high Yen? Granted they both have much more capital under their belts and can afford better economies of scale, but the point is that Pentax is not a well-known/regarded brand here in the States where there is much market potential and if they can't price themselves competitively (as they have done in the past) there is just no way that they can gain market share. More than likely they will lose market share, further hurting their economies of scale and their ability to produce and sell quantities sufficient-enough to aid in price-reduction to a point that is acceptable to potential consumers.
Canon and Nikon's sales are vastly larger than Pentax, especially when factoring in P&S. And they have terrific market penetration in North America. This is where gross revenues from multiple markets affect pricing power.

Likely Pentax USA has their marching orders from Pentax HQ to deliver a certain margin to avoid the Japanese market subsidy. For Canikon (and especially Sony and Samsung) this is much less of an issue.

Pentax was sold because it was likely going broke. It was probably going broke because it was underpricing its products.
09-21-2010, 01:54 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by hut234 Quote
Adorama US officially has it for the $1,600 (in US dollars) as originally expected.

Pentax K5 16.3 Megapixel DSLR Camera Body
Weird that the US price is $100 more than in Canada.
This would be a first!

JP
09-21-2010, 02:00 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zarkon Quote
TiminyCricket - good luck on finding a new job soon. Being unemployed is really hard on people.

Back to cameras now, the K5 sounds really great and I want one - just that my wife is expecting our first baby so I really shouldn't... Just like I want that juicy new Fuji X100 - what a beauty. Back to Pentax for a moment - the K5 is a worthy upgrade from my K10D.
just think though your gonna want to photograph your baby - hospital lighting is terrible in the wards so that low noise high iso will be needed NEEDED!!! sure your wife will see the logic
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