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09-20-2010, 11:03 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I'd like to undestand why Hoya has so weak marketing department.
I am think you're being wrong her, OGL. Hoya marketing came up with color scheme of things that seems to be selling good. Hoya marketing played out the Photokina game very nicely. Noone is really moaning about Nikon D7000 as loud as they did just a few days ago. Hoya marketing (or was it engineering? but who cares anyway) saw the niche and presently Pentax produces most advanced APS-C DSLRs from high ISO capabilities point of view...

It is not to say that they did not make mistakes, but they surely are not "so weak".

09-20-2010, 11:12 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
What is your impressions, thoughts, feelings???
My thoughts? How many times do you have to repeat this? And why make a new thread about it when there is already a post dedicated to K-5?
09-20-2010, 11:23 PM   #18
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The only thing weak here is the continual drone of negativity. Give the K-5 a break and wait until some real world reviews are out. Ultimately, if Pentax upset you all so much by releasing such 'weak' cameras, take a walk over to the marketplace forum and dump your load... Or find a nice Bridge (to live under).
09-20-2010, 11:48 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
all these things DO matter to the market when the K-5 will be judged against competitors who do handle these issues better, and for less money. even if most people won't use or understand these features.
Wrong IMO.
Pentax has had a history of making gear for enthusiasts and not tech-geeks - and as such do not tend to push the boundaries of rival brands in order to prove they can do it better or stay afloat. This line of thinking is typically consumerist, which is clearly not Pentax's prime market in its flagship models (much more so in the K-x and K-r).

QuoteQuote:
looking at the prominently central new video control on the D7000 and GH1/2 with video AF tells me that the notion of "still camera first/video camera second" is short-sighted and potentially dangerous for a brand trying to effect today's market.
Sorry, wrong again IMO.
Photo enthusiasts are just that - they're not video enthusiasts as well. Those who are both would not be settling on a dSLR for video work. I'm sure Pentax were cognisant of producing a flagship model without video and so included it to at least remain on par with competitors, but again, it's not the primary reason enthusiasts go out to invest in a mid-level dSLR.

09-20-2010, 11:52 PM   #20
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the only "Weak" camera released is the D7000

Dont you just love all the lovely plastic, especially the mount!
D7000 is plastic consumer cam masquerading as semi pro.
K10d was better than this weak attempt at outdoor model
09-20-2010, 11:53 PM   #21
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another weakness, 25p only... i want/need 24p first, then 25p, then 30p, then 50p then 60p. i also WANT/NEED 1/250th flash sync... my k20d is gonna be maybe replaced by the new D7000... will wait until the reviews come out
09-20-2010, 11:55 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
the only "Weak" camera released is the D7000

Dont you just love all the lovely plastic, especially the mount!
D7000 is plastic consumer cam masquerading as semi pro.
K10d was better than this weak attempt at outdoor model
agreed!
09-20-2010, 11:56 PM   #23
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The weakest thing is all the moaning before anyone has even gotten their hands on it.

09-20-2010, 11:59 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The weaknesses of K-5 - what do you think?
What could be better?

1. no 12/14 bit RAW mode ? GordonBGood says that 14 bit mode (only) plays a low-down trick with IQ of K-5 in some situations.
I'll wait to see the images in 14 bit (JPEG files from converted RAW files) before I judge, but if it has a negative influence on IQ that's measurable, than the lack of 12 bit RAW files is going to be a real issue.

QuoteQuote:
2. small buffer size ?
Not a major issue for most, I believe.

QuoteQuote:
3. weak video control ?
4. no AF in video ?
The lack of some manual control in video mode is a big issue for serious video users and cinematographers. And there are MANY of them out there, which will still favor Canon (better controls of the 7D) and Nikon (continuous AF of the D7000).

Continuous AF in video might be a serious issue for many video users, but not for all. More serious cinematographers often rely on MF and follow-focus to achieve accurate focus, so the lack of AF-C in video might not be a big issue. But then DSLR video accessories like follow-focus adapters as easier to find for a D7000 than they are for a K-5. In the end, the D7000 has a slight advantage over the K-5.

QuoteQuote:
5. price? higher than 60D and D7000
The main issue, I believe. Not that the K-5 is expensive for such a high-quality camera, but rather because it is expensive compared to direct competition.

No double SD/SDHC memory card slot, no continuous AF in video and slower X-sync than the D7000 (which now has weather seals, magnesium body and a 100% viewfinder, features similar to the K-5) means the K-5 should sell for a bit less than the D7000. However, the D7000 is cheaper by about 400 dollars!

And although the 60D has no AF in video, but also no 100% viewfinder, no magnesium body and no weather seals, it's still a bargain compared to the K-5.

QuoteQuote:
6. still 1/180 x-sync
Not a big issue, again, but a little bit disappointing. Pentax might not be able to upgrade both its AF and flash systems at the same time. P-TTL II flash metering will come in time...

QuoteQuote:
What is your impressions, thoughts, feelings???
I think the K-5 looks like an excellent camera, at least on paper. However, its very high price tag (especially compared to the D7000, its most direct competitor) means people will expect more performance and better image quality, or performance and image quality that's equal to cameras with a similar price tag, like the D300s and EOS 7D.

While the Nikon D300s is getting older, it remains very good competiton: it still has excellent high ISO performance and exceptional 3D tracking AF. The Canon EOS 7D, however, is brand new and represents even tougher competition for the K-5.

Although both the K-5 and 7D are pretty equal on paper (magnesium alloy body, weather seals, 100% viewfinder, 1080p video, etc.), there are some differences that did set the 7D appart from the K-7, differences that should be eliminated with the K-5.

First, the autofocus.

The K-7's AF performance in good light is far from matching the 7D's accuracy and speed in low light. Trying to compete against the currently best autofocus system in the APS-C DSLR class is not going to be easy for the K-5.

But if the new SAFOX IX+ is really as good as some claim it is, it might actually even out the differences between the K-5 and 7D, thanks to some advantages the K-5 has, like in-body image stabilisation. The size and weight of the camera is also another strong selling argument in favor of the K-5...

Then, there's the high ISO image quality.

High ISO image quality being the new Holy Grail of DSLR improvement these days, people expect DSLRs to make excellent pictures from ISO 100 all the way to ISO 3200. The K-5 has strong competition in the 7D, but not as strong as might one think.

If Pentax managed to replicate the high ISO performance of the incredible K-x with its new the K-5, then Pentax's new flaship might already have won the IQ war against the 7D.

Or maybe not...

The problem with high ISO image quality is that noise itself is not the only issue. Reduced dynamic range is another. And there, the K-7 was struggling compared to the 7D (and the D300s as well). If the dynamic range hasn't improved at high ISO on the K-5, half of the high ISO performance will be lost with the missing DR.

But if Pentax managed to push the K-5 to the same level of impressive performance of the K-x at high ISO, I'm sure both the noise levels and the DR will be fantastic.

Judging from the K-5's highest standard ISO setting of 12800, and 51200 (!) in expanded mode, I feel confident Pentax will remain the leader of APS-C DSLR high ISO performance. And that, alone, might be what makes the K-5 a real success, even when facing competition like the EOS 7D, D300s and D7000.

In the end, I feel like this DSLR will be more successful than the K-7.

Looks like the K-5 is going to be to the K-7 what the K20D was to the K10D: not a revolution, but a solid improvement that adresses the weaknesses of the previous model while building on its strengths.
09-21-2010, 12:00 AM   #25
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If it doesn't have a "World Peace and Fluffy Bunnies Everywhere" function, I'm switching brands!
09-21-2010, 12:35 AM   #26
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main weakness is not using a 4*5 inch sensor, unfortunately
09-21-2010, 01:03 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
the vari-angle screen on the 60D was a first on an SLR for the big brand, and surely got some new consumers excited. video has made this feature more important and is not present in the K-r
Not everybody wants such screens. Personally, I would be interested, but not if it destroys the usability of the OVF. I haven't tried the 60D, but I've briefly tried the Sony a350, and the tiltable screen protrudes so much that it makes the OVF almost unusable. Anyway, the articulating LCD screen alone can't save the 60D from the impression that it's just a very bulky alternative to the 550D and not really a class above.

QuoteQuote:
how is it an advantage at $400 more expensive?
The US is not the whole world. In Japan, the K-5 costs only USD 20 more than the D7000 (yodobashi.com), in Norway USD 130 (fotovideo.no, and they're not the best place to shop Pentax, I expect smaller differences elsewhere). Maybe Pentax decided they didn't want to subsidize the US market anymore, or that they wanted to hedge against a falling dollar?
09-21-2010, 02:06 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The weaknesses of K-5 - what do you think?
What could be better?

1. no 12/14 bit RAW mode ?
2. small buffer size ?
3. weak video control ?
4. no AF in video ?
5. price? higher than 60D and D7000
6. still 1/180 x-sync
7. ridiculous speed modes - 7 fps and 1.6 fps. K-7 has 5.2 and 3.3 fps modes (and it's logical)

What is your impressions, thoughts, feelings???
For me the main issue is price. I need better high ISO than K-7 and most likely K-5 would be very good replacement for K-7 in this area, however I definitely won't but it until it's less than €1000.

I don't like small buffer size, however I am not too concerned — I rarely use continuous shooting.

So, overall there's one really bigg issue for me: PRICE.
09-21-2010, 02:30 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by robjmitchell Quote
the only "Weak" camera released is the D7000

Dont you just love all the lovely plastic, especially the mount!
D7000 is plastic consumer cam masquerading as semi pro.
K10d was better than this weak attempt at outdoor model
Look closely. The D7000 has metal mount, but fastened onto plastic chassis. ALL Pentax DSLRs are the SAME.
09-21-2010, 02:42 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Very primitive proposition.
- I never bought DSLR with price above $1000. I have camera and lenses. I never planned to buy K-5.
- I'd like to undestand why Hoya has so weak marketing department.
- And I'd like to know different opinions of Pentaxian.
- How can BRAND launch top-camera with real weaknesses? Didn't they know about it?
- Then tell us about what you really will buy.
- It's all a matter of money.
- We are all a little individualistic, other ways we would shoot canikon.
- We all have or weaknesses, canikon too.
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