New Sigma 150mm macro might/will/won't??? come in K-mount

ezechiel · 11-09-2010, 02:01 AM

Got some news about the new sigma lenses.
Talked with Sigma at the 'Salon de la Photo' in Paris.

The new lenses will come out in january/february, and of course the possibility
to buy them in K-mount!

But I should have asked more about the quickshift possibility

Price for the new 150mm macro: about 1000 euros

ixian · 11-09-2010, 02:27 AM

That's great news!
Expensive, but it has no competition, at least when it comes to K-mount... OK, you can try to hunt for one of the old 200/4's, but they will likely be much more expensive and it may take a couple of years to get one.

All Sigma HSM lenses have quickshift / manual focus override / whatever we call it, afaik.

falconeye · 11-09-2010, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by ezechiel

Got some news [...] the possibility
to buy them in K-mount!

Pardon my ignorance ...
But if I just go the the Sigma website (I used the German one) 150mm F2.8 EX DG MAKRO OS HSM: SIGMA Deutschland GmbH
then it lists "PA" as supported mount (which means Pentax K mount).
It even says "Hybrid-OS im Sony und Pentaxanschluss: ja"

So, what is the news?
Or is this recent?

m8o · 11-09-2010, 08:20 AM

That must be recent.
The US site to contrast is listing availability in only the Sigma mount for the moment, but we know it'll definitely come in Canikon mounts too.

Blue · 11-09-2010, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Pardon my ignorance ...
But if I just go the the Sigma website (I used the German one) 150mm F2.8 EX DG MAKRO OS HSM: SIGMA Deutschland GmbH
then it lists "PA" as supported mount (which means Pentax K mount).
It even says "Hybrid-OS im Sony und Pentaxanschluss: ja"

So, what is the news?
Or is this recent?

It has to be recent because the Sigma 150mm has never ever been offered in k-mount. At one point, they had the 50, 70, 105, and 180mm macro lenses in k-mount but dropped the 180 over a year ago. So if the 150mm/2.8 macro is being offered in K-mount, it is BIG news for macro guys/gals.

falconeye · 11-09-2010, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by Blue

So if the 150mm/2.8 macro is being offered in K-mount, it is BIG news for macro guys/gals.

Oh, that's great.
I just checked alternatives for the DFA100/2.8 (which seems to be great in itself) and ran across the Sigma 150/2.8 Macro which, as it turned out, was available for Pentax too. So I liked it but now I learn how good a news it actually is

The German Sigma site has MTFs for both versions online (old and new OS). The new one actually has the better MTFs and beats the Sigma 70/2.8 Macro too. That's outstanding indeed.

Pentaxor · 11-09-2010, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Oh, that's great.
I just checked alternatives for the DFA100/2.8 (which seems to be great in itself) and ran across the Sigma 150/2.8 Macro which, as it turned out, was available for Pentax too. So I liked it but now I learn how good a news it actually is

The German Sigma site has MTFs for both versions online (old and new OS). The new one actually has the better MTFs and beats the Sigma 70/2.8 Macro too. That's outstanding indeed.

I believe the non-OS 150 version was also better than the 70. anyway, this is great news. but will this 150mm be better on the Sigma SD1? :ugh:

Blue · 11-09-2010, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Pentaxor

I believe the non-OS 150 version was also better than the 70. anyway, this is great news. but will this 150mm be better on the Sigma SD1? :ugh:

Why wouldn't the Sigma mount version be at least as good on the SD1?

Class A · 11-09-2010, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by falconeye

The new one actually has the better MTFs and beats the Sigma 70/2.8 Macro too.

How's that even possible?

The Sigma 70/2.8 is already one of the sharpest macro lenses around. From my experience it seems hard to improve on it; maybe with a higher resolution sensor than I've got, a difference would be noticable.

Well, the 150mm uses 19 (rather than 10) lens elements. Quite an elaborate design.

Pentaxor · 11-09-2010, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Blue

Why wouldn't the Sigma mount version be at least as good on the SD1?

I was suggesting that the 150mm might be better on the SD1 compared to what Pentax now has to offer, camera-wise. this does not concern mounting, AF-speed, nor OS operation, but in terms of IQ.

Hypocorism · 11-09-2010, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Blue

It has to be recent because the Sigma 150mm has never ever been offered in k-mount. At one point, they had the 50, 70, 105, and 180mm macro lenses in k-mount but dropped the 180 over a year ago. So if the 150mm/2.8 macro is being offered in K-mount, it is BIG news for macro guys/gals.

Yep, I wish.

Not even 180 is listed anymore in the K mount roundups here eg.
Sigma Imaging (UK) Ltd

And .JP (home of the company so they should know) only has barcodes for Sigma, Canon, Nikon, Four Thirds:
Super compact and lightweight, large aperture telephoto lens with life-size macro capability. APO MACRO 150mm F2.8 EX DG HSM - SIGMA CORPORATION

But it's not only about listing anyway, even if you find, say a P.K.180 up on a vendor website you cop the 'not available or not in stock' cold-shoulder when you beg to buy it.

I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands.

.R.

Pentaxor · 11-09-2010, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Class A

How's that even possible?

The Sigma 70/2.8 is already one of the sharpest macro lenses around. From my experience it seems hard to improve on it; maybe with a higher resolution sensor than I've got, a difference would be noticable.

Well, the 150mm uses 19 (rather than 10) lens elements. Quite an elaborate design.

higher resolution camera or further cropping (upscaling).

having said that, the advantage will most likely fall on the focal range and retaining the same amount of sharpness and detail or much better at such corresponding range. there is an added benefit of shooting at a much longer distance which is convenience of use.

as far as IQ difference between 70 and 150, imagine shooting with a 70mm at 5ft versus the 150 at 10ft. the 150 can give you much headroom. and I would think that 150 at 5ft could even have better results.

on a sidenote, this is also the reason why I'm considering the Sigma SD1. which might be able to take full advantage of the lens' resolving power. lens' focal range resolution + camera's resolution cropping capacity.

traderdrew · 11-09-2010, 05:17 PM

I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands.

I have seen a Tamron 70-200 macro on eBay with a Pentax mount. There is probably one still on eBay.

m8o · 11-09-2010, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by traderdrew

I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands.

I have seen a Tamron 70-200 macro on eBay with a Pentax mount. There is probably one still on eBay.

I really wouldn't consider the two (1:1 macro primes vs. a 1:3 macro zoom) the same thing... 1:3 is not even close to 1:1 macro.

falconeye · 11-09-2010, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Hypocorism

I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands.

I don't get it.
Sigma 150/2.8 Macro for K-mount is available for Pentax K-mount as by my link, officially listed on the Sigma website. With USM and OS support for Pentax.

Look up my previous posts earlier today.

As for Foveon X3.

I think this is a never ending debate. How do resolutions compare.

I found this old source looking at the MTFs at least:

http://www.foveon.com/files/FrequencyResponse.pdf

It says that for Black&White contrast, the X3 has MTF 50 at Nyquist where Bayer is down to 60% Nyquist at MTF50.

It even says that MTF50 figures for a red/blue edge are 35% and 15% of Nyquist resp.

However, knowing true MTF curves from measurements including a good lens, I know that state-of-the-art demosaicing and sharpening to compensate for the AA filter (both not needed for X3) deliver much better curves.

As a compromise, let me take the intermediate values between the two extremes. I.e., Bayer resolving like X3 at a spatial frequency of 80% for Black&White and 70% for red blue, compared to X3.

This means that a camera would have to have the following pixel resolution to compare:

Foveon X3: 15 MP (b&w and color detail)
Bayer: 23 MP (b&w detail)
Bayer: 30 MP (color detail)

So, in terms of resolution, I would expect the SD1 to perform like a Sony A900 and beat it for color detail.

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11-09-2010, 02:01 AM	#46
ezechiel Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Poitou Charentes Photos: Gallery Posts: 131	Got some news about the new sigma lenses. Talked with Sigma at the 'Salon de la Photo' in Paris. The new lenses will come out in january/february, and of course the possibility to buy them in K-mount! But I should have asked more about the quickshift possibility Price for the new 150mm macro: about 1000 euros

11-09-2010, 02:27 AM	#47
ixian Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Warwickshire, UK Photos: Albums Posts: 193	That's great news! Expensive, but it has no competition, at least when it comes to K-mount... OK, you can try to hunt for one of the old 200/4's, but they will likely be much more expensive and it may take a couple of years to get one. All Sigma HSM lenses have quickshift / manual focus override / whatever we call it, afaik.

11-09-2010, 06:47 AM	#48
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by ezechiel Got some news [...] the possibility to buy them in K-mount! Pardon my ignorance ... But if I just go the the Sigma website (I used the German one) 150mm F2.8 EX DG MAKRO OS HSM: SIGMA Deutschland GmbH then it lists "PA" as supported mount (which means Pentax K mount). It even says "Hybrid-OS im Sony und *Pentax*anschluss: ja" So, what is the news? Or is this recent?

11-09-2010, 08:20 AM	#49
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	That must be recent. The US site to contrast is listing availability in only the Sigma mount for the moment, but we know it'll definitely come in Canikon mounts too.

11-09-2010, 09:00 AM	#50
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by falconeye Pardon my ignorance ... But if I just go the the Sigma website (I used the German one) 150mm F2.8 EX DG MAKRO OS HSM: SIGMA Deutschland GmbH then it lists "PA" as supported mount (which means Pentax K mount). It even says "Hybrid-OS im Sony und *Pentax*anschluss: ja" So, what is the news? Or is this recent? It has to be recent because the Sigma 150mm has never ever been offered in k-mount. At one point, they had the 50, 70, 105, and 180mm macro lenses in k-mount but dropped the 180 over a year ago. So if the 150mm/2.8 macro is being offered in K-mount, it is BIG news for macro guys/gals.

11-09-2010, 09:13 AM	#51
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Blue So if the 150mm/2.8 macro is being offered in K-mount, it is BIG news for macro guys/gals. Oh, that's great. I just checked alternatives for the DFA100/2.8 (which seems to be great in itself) and ran across the Sigma 150/2.8 Macro which, as it turned out, was available for Pentax too. So I liked it but now I learn how good a news it actually is The German Sigma site has MTFs for both versions online (old and new OS). The new one actually has the better MTFs and beats the Sigma 70/2.8 Macro too. That's outstanding indeed.

11-09-2010, 11:06 AM	#52
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by falconeye Oh, that's great. I just checked alternatives for the DFA100/2.8 (which seems to be great in itself) and ran across the Sigma 150/2.8 Macro which, as it turned out, was available for Pentax too. So I liked it but now I learn how good a news it actually is The German Sigma site has MTFs for both versions online (old and new OS). The new one actually has the better MTFs and beats the Sigma 70/2.8 Macro too. That's outstanding indeed. I believe the non-OS 150 version was also better than the 70. anyway, this is great news. but will this 150mm be better on the Sigma SD1? :ugh:

11-09-2010, 12:17 PM	#53
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by Pentaxor I believe the non-OS 150 version was also better than the 70. anyway, this is great news. but will this 150mm be better on the Sigma SD1? :ugh: Why wouldn't the Sigma mount version be at least as good on the SD1?

11-09-2010, 02:34 PM	#54
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by falconeye The new one actually has the better MTFs and beats the Sigma 70/2.8 Macro too. How's that even possible? The Sigma 70/2.8 is already one of the sharpest macro lenses around. From my experience it seems hard to improve on it; maybe with a higher resolution sensor than I've got, a difference would be noticable. Well, the 150mm uses 19 (rather than 10) lens elements. Quite an elaborate design.

11-09-2010, 03:07 PM	#55
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by Blue Why wouldn't the Sigma mount version be at least as good on the SD1? I was suggesting that the 150mm might be better on the SD1 compared to what Pentax now has to offer, camera-wise. this does not concern mounting, AF-speed, nor OS operation, but in terms of IQ.

11-09-2010, 03:20 PM	#56
Hypocorism Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne .au Posts: 623	Originally posted by Blue It has to be recent because the Sigma 150mm has never ever been offered in k-mount. At one point, they had the 50, 70, 105, and 180mm macro lenses in k-mount but dropped the 180 over a year ago. So if the 150mm/2.8 macro is being offered in K-mount, it is BIG news for macro guys/gals. Yep, I wish. Not even 180 is listed anymore in the K mount roundups here eg. Sigma Imaging (UK) Ltd And .JP (home of the company so they should know) only has barcodes for Sigma, Canon, Nikon, Four Thirds: Super compact and lightweight, large aperture telephoto lens with life-size macro capability. APO MACRO 150mm F2.8 EX DG HSM - SIGMA CORPORATION But it's not only about listing anyway, even if you find, say a P.K.180 up on a vendor website you cop the 'not available or not in stock' cold-shoulder when you beg to buy it. I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands. .R.

11-09-2010, 03:24 PM	#57
Pentaxor Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,513	Originally posted by Class A How's that even possible? The Sigma 70/2.8 is already one of the sharpest macro lenses around. From my experience it seems hard to improve on it; maybe with a higher resolution sensor than I've got, a difference would be noticable. Well, the 150mm uses 19 (rather than 10) lens elements. Quite an elaborate design. higher resolution camera or further cropping (upscaling). having said that, the advantage will most likely fall on the focal range and retaining the same amount of sharpness and detail or much better at such corresponding range. there is an added benefit of shooting at a much longer distance which is convenience of use. as far as IQ difference between 70 and 150, imagine shooting with a 70mm at 5ft versus the 150 at 10ft. the 150 can give you much headroom. and I would think that 150 at 5ft could even have better results. on a sidenote, this is also the reason why I'm considering the Sigma SD1. which might be able to take full advantage of the lens' resolving power. lens' focal range resolution + camera's resolution cropping capacity.

11-09-2010, 05:17 PM	#58
traderdrew Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 639	I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands. I have seen a Tamron 70-200 macro on eBay with a Pentax mount. There is probably one still on eBay.

11-09-2010, 05:26 PM	#59
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by traderdrew I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands. I have seen a Tamron 70-200 macro on eBay with a Pentax mount. There is probably one still on eBay. I really wouldn't consider the two (1:1 macro primes vs. a 1:3 macro zoom) the same thing... 1:3 is not even close to 1:1 macro.

11-09-2010, 05:37 PM	#60
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Hypocorism I desperately want a 150 (or 180 at a pinch) and only solution seems will have to change body brands. I don't get it. Sigma 150/2.8 Macro for K-mount is available for Pentax K-mount as by my link, officially listed on the Sigma website. With USM and OS support for Pentax. Look up my previous posts earlier today. As for Foveon X3. I think this is a never ending debate. How do resolutions compare. I found this old source looking at the MTFs at least: http://www.foveon.com/files/FrequencyResponse.pdf It says that for Black&White contrast, the X3 has MTF 50 at Nyquist where Bayer is down to 60% Nyquist at MTF50. It even says that MTF50 figures for a red/blue edge are 35% and 15% of Nyquist resp. However, knowing true MTF curves from measurements including a good lens, I know that state-of-the-art demosaicing and sharpening to compensate for the AA filter (both not needed for X3) deliver much better curves. As a compromise, let me take the intermediate values between the two extremes. I.e., Bayer resolving like X3 at a spatial frequency of 80% for Black&White and 70% for red blue, compared to X3. This means that a camera would have to have the following pixel resolution to compare: Foveon X3: 15 MP (b&w and color detail) Bayer: 23 MP (b&w detail) Bayer: 30 MP (color detail) So, in terms of resolution, I would expect the SD1 to perform like a Sony A900 and beat it for color detail.