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09-27-2010, 03:38 AM - 2 Likes   #76
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I'm just pasting the whole list, includes some lenses not under discussion, just to make it easier for people to find the info in the linked web page

Pentax Canada - Historical & Discontinued

Lens: Date Introduced
SMCP FA 77/1.8 Limited: Nov. '99
SMCP-FAZ 100-300/4.7-5.8: Feb. '00
SMCP-FA MACRO 200/4 ED: Sep. '00
SMCP-FA 43/1.9 Limited(silver): Nov. '00
SMCP FA 77/1.8 Limited(silver): Nov. '00
SMCP-FAZ 24-90/3.5-4.5 AL-IF: Jan. '01
SMCP-FAZ 28-105/3.2-4.5 AL-IF: Mar. '01
SMCP FA 31/1.8 AL Limited(silver): May '01
SMCP FA 31/1.8 AL Limited(silver): May '01


CIPA:Interchangeable Lens

http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/pdf/s_200912.pdf
2009 Interchangable lenses shipped

Japan 1,822,389
Europe 5,797,860
Americas 4,601,940
Asia 3,418,793
Other 453,840

Looks good right, but look at the numbers for just 135 format lenses
Japan 297,357
Europe 1,198,608
Americas 1,281,404
Asia 1,093,213
Other 106,313

Percent wise there is a lot less market for 135 format lenses and when you consider Pentax's market share ...
Japan 16.32%
Europe 20.67%
Americas 27.84%
Asia 31.98%
Other 23.43%

Thank you
Russell


Last edited by Russell-Evans; 09-27-2010 at 04:01 AM.
09-27-2010, 03:40 AM - 1 Like   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
I just want to say that I stand by what I have been told:
The FA Limiteds are discontinued.
I'm surprised that the messenger (you) was "shot", when the real mess here is some obvious communication problems within Pentax. If you consider all the errors in the German flyer for the K-5, I think it's pretty obvious that information security from Japan has been too tight this time. I wouldn't be surprised if the EOL of the FA Limiteds is also due to a communication failure.

But hey, Pentax is going through some tough times management-wise, if I understood the last Hoya report correctly, they're now being organized differently as an integrated part of Hoya. Having worked for a company that loved to buy, sell out and reorganize all the time, I know what such processes can do to internal and external communications.

It's very sad when this lack of consistent and sufficient communication from Hoya/Pentax results in the user community rioting like we have seen since Photokina, so I think it's time to relax now: Try to see that behind the communication mess, Pentax is very much alive and doing cool things, like releasing the 645D world wide while at the same time releasing two very interesting upgrades to its APS-C DSLR cameras. And if we forget all the insecurity about the FA Limiteds and future lenses: They released exactly the two lenses that were most needed in their lineup, the cheap prime and a longer-range kit zoom. And the latter even as WR, that's something they've been missing since the K10D came out.

So, everybody: relax, and let's hope they learned something and work seriously to get their internal and external communications work better in the future.

(And I hope you and Falk stay here, I always enjoy reading your posts)

Last edited by gazonk; 09-27-2010 at 03:45 AM.
09-27-2010, 03:40 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christopher M.W.T Quote
To be honest I love my Pentax gear, so far I haven't shot with an FA ltd lens and I don't really intend to buy one either. The discontinuation of FA is of little consequence to me and to many people to I suspect, they are film era lenses are reality is don't fit in with Pentax's clear APS-C & MF strategy. There won't be a FF Pentax for a long time if ever, deal with it!
I have no problem with it, don't worry.
I am (was?) one of the people crying for a Pentax FF body. But I understood a couple of months ago that there will not be any FF before a while. So I will buy a 5DmII during the next month, with some very nice glasses. I dealed with it.
Still, I think for Pentax stopping to release the FA Limited is a mistake. Sure they don't sell a lot. And it does not bring many money back to HoyaTax directly. But it is just like the L serie in Canon, Nikkor for Nikon or Zeiss for Sony: they are prestigious, and even if people don't / can't buy them, they still dream to have one of them some day. And stick to Pentax. And these very triptyque set of lenses is the best ambassador and promotion tool for Pentax. They are praised by everybody, everywhere, from users from every brands. It was the only thing I was thinking I will miss in canon (even if I also like very much some of their primes... ). By the way, if they become "Japanese only", I will still miss them because it will not change anything in my "world".
But I can understand how much many people can feel disappointed. A camera is not just a tool. And the lenses even less than a camera. They are your "creative art companion", they give you a lot of happiness (and sometime of frustration). So the strong reaction observed in the forum is quite logical. But cannot excuse the violent words that we have seen against honest forumers. Especially when the informations come from the inside of Pentax.
09-27-2010, 03:44 AM   #79
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Espen, you are right, thanks.

09-27-2010, 04:27 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I wouldn't be surprised if the EOL of the FA Limiteds is also due to a communication failure.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the EU buyer/distributor for the German market is the culprit. Some non-Pentax corporate bureaucrat may have decided for internal reasons to stop making the items available to their wholesale/retail pipeline. The EOL may be their doing, not Pentax Japan's. As such, appeals directed to the EU buyer/distributor may be more effective.

Cheers...
09-27-2010, 04:59 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Michaelina2 Quote
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the EU buyer/distributor for the German market is the culprit.
Good point, that's definitely a possibility.

Btw I noted that the FA645 lenses are all on the linked Canadian historical/discontinued list. I think that's the case in most countries outside Japan, but they definitely have to change that list soon now
09-27-2010, 05:16 AM   #82
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The point of this thread wasn't really to rant about the FA limited specifically, rather to try and give and motivate others to give send feedback to Pentax. Obviously we don't know anything for certain as Pentax Japan won't talk. Contact your local branch, or try sending directly to Japan...

Maybe we just need to show Pentax Japan that that money funneling in from outside Nippon is coming from real people that have various uses for their equipment, many of it overlapping with Japanese users. haha. Japan still have the FA50mm f1.2?! Not to mention that teleconverter...
09-27-2010, 05:29 AM   #83
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Actually, it is the A50/1.2 - I would love an FA50/1.2!

09-27-2010, 10:48 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by bhairavp Quote
Actually, it is the A50/1.2 - I would love an FA50/1.2!
I wonder if every camera body would be able to AF it at the lens's minimum focus distance, given the razor thin depth of the in-focus area. I have read that in the past as a reason for why a FA version does not exist.
09-27-2010, 11:23 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by blende8 Quote
I just want to say that I stand by what I have been told:
The FA Limiteds are discontinued.

Falk additionally added that he saw the latest dealer list for Germany/Swiss/Austria where they are listed as EOL (end of life).
I have got further confirmation today that this is correct.
I didn't ask if this is world-wide, though.
I think so, but I don't know.
It may be, as Roland suggested, that they will survive as a Japan-only item, like e.g. the 600mm lens. Or perhaps Pentax may reconsider the decision if the outcry is loud enough?

PS: I must say that I am a bit irritated about the moderator activity regarding this topic. I am considering not posting here anymore.
I am fully with you. I also did not quite understand, why the original thread was closed.

People here do not seem to realize, that Photokina is the No. 1 market place for the photographic industry. So it does not come as a surprise, that a Pentax rep on the booth may be better informed than a sales clerk even in the Tokyo showroom...

Up to date almost information I got at Photokina turned out to be correct and not only regarding Pentax, which as a brand played a minor role in my professional life.

Ben
09-27-2010, 11:26 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
I am fully with you. I also did not quite understand, why the original thread was closed.

People here do not seem to realize, that Photokina is the No. 1 market place for the photographic industry. So it does not come as a surprise, that a Pentax rep on the booth may be better informed than a sales clerk even in the Tokyo showroom...

Up to date almost information I got at Photokina turned out to be correct and not only regarding Pentax, which as a brand played a minor role in my professional life.

Ben
I heard Pentax Rep in Photokina even doesn't know what does the letters DC mean. (DC on the new lens.)
09-27-2010, 11:35 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by happygui Quote
I heard Pentax Rep in Photokina even doesn't know what does the letters DC mean. (DC on the new lens.)
They know that it means "direct current", but have no idea what it really means. Ring motor, micro motor ...
I think it is a different micro motor.
09-27-2010, 11:37 AM   #88
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I wouldn't be too concerned about the possible loss of the FA Limiteds, if there was an adequate substuítute. But there isn't. The only fast lenses currently in production are the DA 50/1.4 and the DA 200/2.8. The recent 35mm is as slow as the whole bunch of DA Limiteds.

This is the real problem for me. Pentax makes nice little toys - but I do not need toy lenses, I use fast lenses all the time. And then there are the quality issues which plague quite a few current lenses, especially those few, which one may consider to be "fast", like the DA 16-50.

The FA series yielded the last lenses, which I consider to be useably fast. Higher ISO and SR are no substitute for a large aperture. And diminutive lenses may be cute, but that doesn't mater to me. As it looks now, I stick with my 40 lenses and won't add much to it in the future.

Ben
09-27-2010, 11:54 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Can you explain how DA Limiteds replace FA Limiteds?
Thank you for asking. Yes I can explain it.
You see, the DA Limiteds are for APS-C. Pentax has stopped making 24x36 bodies. Pentax concentrates on APS-C. Pentax has discontinued most of their 24x36 lenses. The only ones that they keep is those that has proven to still be popular, but those few remaining 24x36 lenses lives on borrowed time.

The DA serie has replaced the FA serie. The DA Stars replaced the FA Stars. The DA Limiteds replaced the FA Limiteds.

QuoteQuote:
It's absolutely differents lines of lenses - DA LIMITEDs are more compact and APS-C design, slower than FA LIMITED.
That is true. The DA's are a different lines of lenses than the FA lenses, being more compact and more APS-C and fewer lenses with wide aperture - still the DA replaced the FA. Replacements does not automatically mean identical.

The K-7 replaced the K20D. More compact, having higher price. A new design. Different kind of camera than the K20D. Still it was a replacement.

QuoteQuote:
Which DA lens replaced FA31/1.8 (the one of the best wide-angle lens in the world)? Do you really think that it's DA21???
Just as the DA lens line replaced the FA lens line without having equivalents to all FA lenses, the DA Limiteds replaced the FA Limiteds. But with one difference, FA Limiteds kept in production for longer - because there was a demand for them.

QuoteQuote:
If we talk about ~90-95% (35 mm equivalent focal range and DOF) replacement of FA LIMITED by APS-C lenses
So? The DA Stars should have wider apertures than the FA Stars they replaced in order to keep the same DOF, still they are not faster than f/2.8 so they actually has different DOF's than the FA Stars. Still, they replaced the FA Stars without being identical.

DA 17-70 f/4 replaced the FA 28-105 f/3.2-4.5. But the 17-70 has slower aperture at the wide end.

DA 16-45 f/4 replaced both the FA 28-70 f/4 and FA 24-90 f/3.5-4.5, but they are not identical in focal lengths even when taking into account the 1.5x factor.

And so on. It seems possible for Pentax to replace a lens line with lenses that aren't identical to the lenses that are being replaced. Just as they do with bodies.

Because the FA lenses were designed for 24x36 and Pentax does not offer 24x36 bodies. They offer APS-C bodies and their goal is to make lenses that fits APS-C well, that meets the demand of good build quality with useful focal lengths, being compact and still fast enough. Those requirements means different thinking than the previous thinking that designed the FA serie. The DA 40 has become a success. So Pentax designs more lenses with compact dimensions, exclusive build quality and nice retro touches for APS-C. It is the APS-C equivalent to the FA Limiteds for 24x36.
09-27-2010, 11:59 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by bhairavp Quote
Actually, it is the A50/1.2 - I would love an FA50/1.2!
They have made some production runs of the A 50/1.2 the past year or so along with the AF 1.7 TC. That's the thing about a small company and a specialty item like a premium lens. Runs can be made in batches without swamping the company like some believe.
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