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09-30-2010, 08:12 PM   #31
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I think the Sony technicians are smiling, they can look at the K5 results and say: see - this is how good our sensor can be!

They make money with every Pentax and Nikon sensor sold - whats not to like about that

I'm smiling also, there is a K5 somewhere in my future! Whoever awarded the K5 a star for photokina knew what they were doing.

09-30-2010, 09:31 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I think the Sony technicians are smiling, they can look at the K5 results and say: see - this is how good our sensor can be!

They make money with every Pentax and Nikon sensor sold - whats not to like about that

I'm smiling also, there is a K5 somewhere in my future! Whoever awarded the K5 a star for photokina knew what they were doing.
having said that, is Sony going to scrap their own camera line? I mean it just dont make sense if they release a camera that won't sell as good as the other brands. it's just a waste of funding. unless of course if they play it smart and just release a few number of cameras up on sale but not necessarily flood the market with their supply.
09-30-2010, 09:48 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
having said that, is Sony going to scrap their own camera line? I mean it just dont make sense if they release a camera that won't sell as good as the other brands. it's just a waste of funding. unless of course if they play it smart and just release a few number of cameras up on sale but not necessarily flood the market with their supply.
Are you kidding? This is Sony, they waste money, time, and *think* they know what consumers want. They make stupid formats like Memory Stick, Mini Disc, whatever that version of a firewire connection is... etc. They just love wasting money.

They currently offer 30 still cameras! THIRTY! What! If that's not a sign of a total disconnect with your customer then I don't know what is. Hell they even offer 34 camcorders!

64 different imaging products for one company. Now, I would expect 30 cameras from Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax.. etc. Because thats all they do! With 64 imaging products from Sony on top of everything else they make... its a wonder how they aren't sitting on just a ton of unused products.

Anyway! Back on topic, I am sure they are smiling, but if I was head up at Sony I would be bashing heads in asking why we can't eek out more performance out of our OWN PRODUCTS! Usually when companies are suppliers AND product engineers they give the B grade stuff over to the companies that would otherwise be in competition with them. That way you leave yourself open for "Well the best ones come from Sony because they make the stuff". I do however understand that they make money off of Nikon and Pentax anyway... but still.

Either way, Nikon and Pentax have found a way to out perform their supplier/designer/fab/competition... which is awesome for us.

Last edited by kalison; 09-30-2010 at 09:58 PM.
09-30-2010, 10:02 PM   #34
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K-5 高感画质不错的。

09-30-2010, 10:20 PM   #35
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Sony is pushing the A55 on people who want excellent video capabilities in their DSLRs. The translucent mirror allows for continuous phase detection autofocusing and that's probably what their selling point is.

IMO, their thinking is pretty muddled both with the NEX and the SLT lines. They would probably do better designing the ergonomics for video and then putting still capability.
09-30-2010, 10:25 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by jhaji Quote
Sony is pushing the A55 on people who want excellent video capabilities in their DSLRs. The translucent mirror allows for continuous phase detection autofocusing and that's probably what their selling point is.

IMO, their thinking is pretty muddled both with the NEX and the SLT lines. They would probably do better designing the ergonomics for video and then putting still capability.
I actually agree with this. In fact if they were smart enough, they could really jump ahead of Canon if they would put some first rate controls in their line like the A55 or their other DSLRs and promote the still images.

Problem is, where is the line drawn before we just call it an interchangeable lens camcorder? To me its almost as if they have to force the still imaging first... ah I don't know.
09-30-2010, 10:49 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by kalison Quote
Are you kidding? This is Sony, they waste money, time, and *think* they know what consumers want. They make stupid formats like Memory Stick, Mini Disc, whatever that version of a firewire connection is... etc. They just love wasting money.

They currently offer 30 still cameras! THIRTY! What! If that's not a sign of a total disconnect with your customer then I don't know what is. Hell they even offer 34 camcorders!

64 different imaging products for one company. Now, I would expect 30 cameras from Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax.. etc. Because thats all they do! With 64 imaging products from Sony on top of everything else they make... its a wonder how they aren't sitting on just a ton of unused products.

Anyway! Back on topic, I am sure they are smiling, but if I was head up at Sony I would be bashing heads in asking why we can't eek out more performance out of our OWN PRODUCTS! Usually when companies are suppliers AND product engineers they give the B grade stuff over to the companies that would otherwise be in competition with them. That way you leave yourself open for "Well the best ones come from Sony because they make the stuff". I do however understand that they make money off of Nikon and Pentax anyway... but still.

Either way, Nikon and Pentax have found a way to out perform their supplier/designer/fab/competition... which is awesome for us.
Since when does a Sony HDTV has any relevance to a Sony A330? We are not talking about their other Sony Products, we are talking about their digital SLR line. if you were a vendor that is selling apples and oranges, and oranges only sell 1% of the total fruit product, are you still going to buy and produce a whole lot of oranges just to satisfy your 1% market at a loss? or are you going to take measures on cutting losses and divert some of the resources on other things?

like you pointed out, Sony has other viable product niche. they could had reallocate the spending on a much more profitable niche rather than continuously loss money. although such losses are affordable for Sony, they are damn right stupid and suffering from diarrhea.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 10-01-2010 at 02:13 AM.
09-30-2010, 11:03 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
they are damn right stupid and suffering from diarrhea.
i wouldn't mind keeping that some of that diarrhea..

09-30-2010, 11:36 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
Since when does a Sony HDTV has any relevance to a Sony A330? We are not talking about their other Sony Products, we are talking about their digital SLR line. if you were a vendor that is selling apples and oranges, and oranges only sell 1% of the total fruit product, are you still going to buy produce a whole lot of apples just to satisfy your 1% market at a loss? or are you going to take measures of cutting losses and divert some of the resources on other things?
I really don't even know why I care... Sony is a waste of time to debate over. I had a huge post all written up... 7 or 8 paragraphs and then it dawned on me that I am wasting time typing this up over a company I could care less about.

I was saying that Sony has no expertise anymore, they just sell a bunch of electronics and none of it is a top tier item (with very few exceptions I'll admit, but they are no 1980-1990s Sony). In the case of their DSLR division they have an opportunity to sell top tier cameras because they have total control of the fab. They should be showcasing the best of their yields in their own cameras, not letting a direct competitor product show them up because they can make their (Sony) sensors more efficient.

If they don't care about having their own sensors out performing (and by efficiency) their own competing product, then why bother pouring money into developing a whole DSLR line up. As I said before... they have over 64 imaging products, when realistically they could be selling 30 and cover all their customer's needs. Think of all the resources being wasted with all those models that aren't selling.

Okay, so seriously. I am very happy Nikon and Pentax can do what they do to make these sensors fly. I can't wait to see real samples!
10-01-2010, 02:22 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by kalison Quote
I really don't even know why I care... Sony is a waste of time to debate over. I had a huge post all written up... 7 or 8 paragraphs and then it dawned on me that I am wasting time typing this up over a company I could care less about.

I was saying that Sony has no expertise anymore, they just sell a bunch of electronics and none of it is a top tier item (with very few exceptions I'll admit, but they are no 1980-1990s Sony). In the case of their DSLR division they have an opportunity to sell top tier cameras because they have total control of the fab. They should be showcasing the best of their yields in their own cameras, not letting a direct competitor product show them up because they can make their (Sony) sensors more efficient.

If they don't care about having their own sensors out performing (and by efficiency) their own competing product, then why bother pouring money into developing a whole DSLR line up. As I said before... they have over 64 imaging products, when realistically they could be selling 30 and cover all their customer's needs. Think of all the resources being wasted with all those models that aren't selling.

Okay, so seriously. I am very happy Nikon and Pentax can do what they do to make these sensors fly. I can't wait to see real samples!

exactly the point. I can't understand either why they can't take full advantage of what they have already on a sleeve. it's more like having an M4 carbine with M203 Grenade Launcher where they can't even use the launcher.

and yes, would be interested to see some more comparative shots from ISO 1600 to 12,800.
10-01-2010, 04:20 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
exactly the point. I can't understand either why they can't take full advantage of what they have already on a sleeve. it's more like having an M4 carbine with M203 Grenade Launcher where they can't even use the launcher.

and yes, would be interested to see some more comparative shots from ISO 1600 to 12,800.
My understanding is that the there are completely separate divisions in Sony making dSLRs and sensors. They are judged on profitability, etc. I think the sensor division does fairly well, but they just make the sensors, they don't decide how they are used.

The SLR folks are in a difficult situation. Up till now, they have had to consider (1) How to protect upper end camera sale from low end camera sales. (2) How to protect Sony's video division from SLR sales. Both of these have ended up leaving past cameras somewhat crippled in comparison to releases from other companies. Maybe that is all changing now, but I doubt it. Even Canon and Nikon do their best to push photographers up the ranks into upper end, more expensive cameras.
10-01-2010, 07:25 AM   #42
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Sony's sensor division probably profits more from their sales to companies like Nikon and Pentax (not to mention the gobs of compact camera sensors they produce) than they do from Sony camera division's use of them. It makes perfect sense for them to "favor" those outside brands over their own in-house brand (like Rondec mentioned, separate divisions in a company like Sony are pretty much run like entirely separate companies).
10-01-2010, 08:26 AM   #43
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I think Pentax's R&D department got so fed up with the complaints about the K-7's noise that they had only one goal: to make the best APS-C camera ever with regards to noise and Dynamic Range. I think they have succeeded, but of course we should not get too enthusiastic before we have seen the first proper samples
10-01-2010, 08:45 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
Sony's sensor division probably profits more from their sales to companies like Nikon and Pentax (not to mention the gobs of compact camera sensors they produce) than they do from Sony camera division's use of them. It makes perfect sense for them to "favor" those outside brands over their own in-house brand (like Rondec mentioned, separate divisions in a company like Sony are pretty much run like entirely separate companies).
This is understandable...

Sure they make more money off of other companies, but that's only because their own camera division is sub par. If what you say is true, it just reinforces the fact that they aren't trying hard enough.

I mean come on, you can't tell me there is zero communication between divisions that rely on the other for products. The sensor fab could no doubt help the imaging division push the sensors to the limit of their capability. This means sharing internally (Sony) all the (might I say highly) proprietary information other companies don't have the privilege of seeing...ever.

All I am saying is... MS and Apple. Office for Mac.
10-02-2010, 11:38 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by kalison Quote
Are you kidding? This is Sony, they waste money, time, and *think* they know what consumers want. They make stupid formats like Memory Stick, Mini Disc, whatever that version of a firewire connection is... etc. They just love wasting money...........
Anybody remember the Beta-Max fiasco?
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