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10-02-2010, 01:27 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Anybody remember the Beta-Max fiasco?
LOL


Okay I am really sorry I derailed this thread. If someone needs to close it thats fine, or remove my posts.

10-03-2010, 03:32 AM   #47
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Actually the MiniDisc wasn't bad per se IMO.
It went too little too late. CD-R let it KO and rise of MP3 killed totally.
10-03-2010, 08:15 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Actually the MiniDisc wasn't bad per se IMO.
It went too little too late. CD-R let it KO and rise of MP3 killed totally.
Ofcourse it wasn't bad. Betamax wasn't bad either but it did not catch on.....
But they do get it right too.
Bue Ray, which they co developed with others, seems to be the winning format for now
So, NEX isn't bad but it could still go the "minidisk" way or the "bue ray"way.
10-03-2010, 12:29 PM   #49
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Until tests are done in a controlled setting all this talk is useless. I would like to see comparisons to a D3s, not a D700. The sensor in the D700 is over 3 years old, I would like to hope that APS-C technology would have caught up a bit. When all is said and done how will the K5 sensor fair against the D800 (or whatever the D700 replacement is)?

10-03-2010, 12:36 PM   #50
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But that's the trick: APS-C is not competing with the "FF", so we shouldn't care if it'll get beaten by the "D800".
It's more like APS-C reaching a milestone; remember how happy people are with the D700's high ISO capabilities? If we'll get that, that's a reason to celebrate!
10-03-2010, 12:40 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But that's the trick: APS-C is not competing with the "FF", so we shouldn't care if it'll get beaten by the "D800".
It's more like APS-C reaching a milestone; remember how happy people are with the D700's high ISO capabilities? If we'll get that, that's a reason to celebrate!
Ditto!
10-03-2010, 01:14 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by aragondina Quote
Until tests are done in a controlled setting all this talk is useless. I would like to see comparisons to a D3s, not a D700. The sensor in the D700 is over 3 years old, I would like to hope that APS-C technology would have caught up a bit. When all is said and done how will the K5 sensor fair against the D800 (or whatever the D700 replacement is)?
There comes a point when the point is moot comparing the FF with the APS-C sensor.

Yes, the FF will probable always have better high ISO, but at what cost ? The camera has to be bigger, the 1.5 crop factor is an advantage to me now that wide angle APS-C size wide angle lenses are prevalent.

I think the future push with APS-C is for even better high ISO and great DR.

For me, if they had a 12-14MP sensor that had real usable 51,200 ISO, I can't imaging a low light area that would be out of the question.

When my blue sky holds when I'm shooting landscapes on a contrasty sunny day, then we are there ..... we are very close to being there now with the K-5.

I for one don't think Pentax will come out with a FF. It will be expensive to do so and they would be much wiser spending money on a rangefinder type camera with high quality small optics and a great sensor. I have seen some very large prints with APS-C size sensors.

I'm looking very much forward to the K-5 going on sale !

wll
10-03-2010, 04:02 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But that's the trick: APS-C is not competing with the "FF", so we shouldn't care if it'll get beaten by the "D800".
It's more like APS-C reaching a milestone; remember how happy people are with the D700's high ISO capabilities? If we'll get that, that's a reason to celebrate!
Actually, I think that we have reached the point where APS-C is competing with FF. With advancing technology, FF will always have an advantage. The question is whether this advantage will matter in practical terms. High IQ fanatics and some professionals will say "yes," while most other folks will say "no."

Rob

10-03-2010, 05:40 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
Actually, I think that we have reached the point where APS-C is competing with FF. With advancing technology, FF will always have an advantage. The question is whether this advantage will matter in practical terms. High IQ fanatics and some professionals will say "yes," while most other folks will say "no."

Rob
for what it's worth, the only 2 things that is unique to the FF system is the DOF and FOV (sorry, but this is due to sensor size). big and bright OVF would be another one but I think the upcoming development on the hybrid APS-C or m4/3 mirrorless systems are somewhat getting close to achieving that.
10-03-2010, 06:21 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
for what it's worth, the only 2 things that is unique to the FF system is the DOF and FOV
True but it's also a bit over-rated IMHO. FOV is not that important since you can now have any FL available for APS-C, even the widest ones like the Sigma 8-16mm. For DOF, the 1 stop advantage is not that big in practice. It's only in special cases that the difference can be big: fast wide angles are not produced for APS-C, there's no 16mm f/2 or f/1.4 for example.
10-03-2010, 09:08 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
True but it's also a bit over-rated IMHO. FOV is not that important since you can now have any FL available for APS-C, even the widest ones like the Sigma 8-16mm. For DOF, the 1 stop advantage is not that big in practice. It's only in special cases that the difference can be big: fast wide angles are not produced for APS-C, there's no 16mm f/2 or f/1.4 for example.
Yes, that is exactly why I want and need a Full-Frame. it is mostly for specialty purposes. that's why I reiterated that I'm not totally abandoning Pentax but would be selling lenses that won't be needed as much once I get a FullFrame. too bad since I'm enjoying some of those lenses as well, so a sacrifice must be done. can't keep both.

other issues for Pentax that is needed to be resolved is their AF accuracy Speed. if the K5's DR holds true, then it's one less problem to go for. I don't care much for Video so they can scrap that anytime. also, Pentax should work out a better OVF/EVF just like what is Fuji is doing. that would be a huge + + + factor..

so get me those two and I would be happy with my APS system, but doesn't necessarily mean that I wont get a FF, still.
10-03-2010, 11:43 PM   #57
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btw, it's worth mentioning that many of the Canon bodies people think are 1.0x FF are not...for Canon at last check only the 5D and 5D mkII along with the 1Ds series of bodies (1Ds, 1Ds Mark II and 1Ds Mark III). Yeah some debate the 5D bodies are true1.0x FF sensor bodies but they are for all intents and purposes.

However all the remaining Canon "FF" are actually 1.3x bodies (1D, 1D Mk.II, 1D Mk.IIn & 1D Mk.III). Well actually all but the 1D Mk.III are 1.25x while the 1D Mk.III is indeed a 1.3x sensor. But they are still APS-H sensors...
10-04-2010, 04:20 AM   #58
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Readers here may recall the interesting discussions in this thread in the debate over the benefits of FF over APS-C:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/71896-low-noise-be...uals-zero.html
10-04-2010, 04:36 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Readers here may recall the interesting discussions in this thread in the debate over the benefits of FF over APS-C:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/71896-low-noise-be...uals-zero.html
That thread is really interesting. Basically, the only way to get noise benefit from full frame is to use lenses that are faster than that which is used on crop frame (and accept the decreased depth of field that goes with them). I feel like I struggle to get enough depth of field on my current camera. Usually shoot at f4, occasionally a little wider. The only benefit full frame would really have for me is a bigger viewfinder.
10-04-2010, 04:50 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
That thread is really interesting. Basically, the only way to get noise benefit from full frame is to use lenses that are faster than that which is used on crop frame (and accept the decreased depth of field that goes with them). I feel like I struggle to get enough depth of field on my current camera. Usually shoot at f4, occasionally a little wider. The only benefit full frame would really have for me is a bigger viewfinder.
And I think that's what it comes down to - in itself a good enough reason for many to go FF. But otherwise, APS-C still does the job.
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