My own Photokina observations (Pentax and others)

thibs · 09-28-2010, 08:53 AM

Yep.
One could be opened and when I took my card the pentax guy next to me indicated 'very clearly' that it wasn't allowed.

Blue · 09-28-2010, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Yep.
One could be opened and when I took my card the pentax guy next to me indicated 'very clearly' that it wasn't allowed.

What was the logic? Was the fw not up to snuff or were they afraid someone was going to hack them? I think this was a bad decision on their part.

Reportage · 09-28-2010, 11:02 AM

i think they were worried on what might be found on the exif?

i can understand if picture quality is the issue but thats understandable since its a pre-production model. Any decent photographer would reserve judgement on iq till the final version is released.

the only other thing i can think of is they are worried just how much buffer it has and how fast it can write to card. But usually those things are finalised in the design stage arent they?

aleonx3 · 09-28-2010, 11:10 AM

someone might be able to put in his/her SD card with a hecked boot code (then switch on/off) to disable the camera - don't think they want that to happen...

Reportage · 09-28-2010, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by aleonx3

someone might be able to put in his/her SD card with a hecked boot code (then switch on/off) to disable the camera - don't think they want that to happen...

thats new to me...didnt know that can use code to permanently disable a camera. But i would think that the engineers are prepared for such eventuality and have prepared recovery methods?

aleonx3 · 09-28-2010, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Reportage

thats new to me...didnt know that can use code to permanently disable a camera. But i would think that the engineers are prepared for such eventuality and have prepared recovery methods?

Don't even need any hecked code, try the firmware upgrade and shutdown the camera while the camera is loading... don't recommend you that on your camera though -

When you are in the trade show (and you only have a few pre-production models to show), someone may be a fanboy of another camp to do such a thing. Yes, they can recover that, but not while they are in the tradeshow.

Raylon · 09-28-2010, 12:19 PM

They don't want people taking pictures and then using the pictures to review the camera. The firmware isn't done yet so they still may have a few tricks to use to clean the images up better.

thibs · 09-28-2010, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Blue

What was the logic? Was the fw not up to snuff or were they afraid someone was going to hack them? I think this was a bad decision on their part.

They did the same four years ago with the k10 but samsung did not care with their gx10

falconeye · 09-28-2010, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by thibs

2/ there were some pretty nice girls there

20/ did I mention the pretty girls?

Hi thibs,

I am glad you had a great time.

May I propose everybody posts a few Photokina girls now

I mean everybody who was anywhere near Cologne

JackBak · 09-28-2010, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Reportage

the only other thing i can think of is they are worried just how much buffer it has and how fast it can write to card. But usually those things are finalised in the design stage arent they?

By "design stage" you might be thinking of a "tweaking the firmware" stage. From an engineering point of view (I are one

) the design stage for both the firmware and the hardware are now well past us. And unless they can plop a bigger RAM buffer down with no layout changes (I don't know their design it could be possible but not likely) folks thinking that 8 RAW buffer limit will be changed upon final shipment may be disappointed.

Also remember if they could plop a different RAM chip down they would have to rerun what is called DVT (Design Verification Testing) which must be done to assure us all the quality we expect out of Pentax.

Now it is possible that the Photokina demo units of the K-5 where not the units that Pentax has put through DVT (hope springs eternal) and that those DVT units have a bigger buffer. I don't know -- many things are still possible. Be of good cheer.

JackBak · 09-28-2010, 04:12 PM

It was not clear in my last post, sorry. DVT is not something that is done over a weekend it usually takes weeks and weeks -- think temperature chambers, voltage stresses, salt spray for weather sealing. All of this would push the release date back towards December. Thus my thinking of no hardware changes at this point.

falconeye · 09-28-2010, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Reportage

the only other thing i can think of is they are worried just how much buffer it has and how fast it can write to card. But usually those things are finalised in the design stage arent they?

The buffer was tested at Photokina to hold 8 RAWs at 7fps and it was specified as such in the Pentax Japan datasheet. Even if the units have been prototypes. It is clear that this detail in the specifications is pretty accurate already.

Reportage · 09-29-2010, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

The buffer was tested at Photokina to hold 8 RAWs at 7fps and it was specified as such in the Pentax Japan datasheet. Even if the units have been prototypes. It is clear that this detail in the specifications is pretty accurate already.

makes me think that a buffer monster of a camera is in the works by Pentax.

thibs · 09-29-2010, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Hi thibs,

I am glad you had a great time.

May I propose everybody posts a few Photokina girls now

I mean everybody who was anywhere near Cologne

Thanks Falk but... Ouch didn't see the one on the right

...

Gimbal · 09-29-2010, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by JackBak

It was not clear in my last post, sorry. DVT is not something that is done over a weekend it usually takes weeks and weeks -- think temperature chambers, voltage stresses, salt spray for weather sealing. All of this would push the release date back towards December. Thus my thinking of no hardware changes at this point.

They wouldn't have to go through all tests again, they make a judgment of what the change possible could affect and then they test that. I would say some firmware tests and that's about it. (IF there are no hardware changes other than slapping in a bigger pin compatible memory circuit.)

09-28-2010, 04:06 PM	#25
JackBak Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 88	Originally posted by Reportage the only other thing i can think of is they are worried just how much buffer it has and how fast it can write to card. But usually those things are finalised in the design stage arent they? By "design stage" you might be thinking of a "tweaking the firmware" stage. From an engineering point of view (I are one) the design stage for both the firmware and the hardware are now well past us. And unless they can plop a bigger RAM buffer down with no layout changes (I don't know their design it could be possible but not likely) folks thinking that 8 RAW buffer limit will be changed upon final shipment may be disappointed. Also remember if they could plop a different RAM chip down they would have to rerun what is called DVT (Design Verification Testing) which must be done to assure us all the quality we expect out of Pentax. Now it is possible that the Photokina demo units of the K-5 where not the units that Pentax has put through DVT (hope springs eternal) and that those DVT units have a bigger buffer. I don't know -- many things are still possible. Be of good cheer. Last edited by JackBak; 09-28-2010 at 04:08 PM. Reason: typos

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09-28-2010, 08:53 AM	#16
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Yep. One could be opened and when I took my card the pentax guy next to me indicated 'very clearly' that it wasn't allowed.

09-28-2010, 09:01 AM	#17
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by thibs Yep. One could be opened and when I took my card the pentax guy next to me indicated 'very clearly' that it wasn't allowed. What was the logic? Was the fw not up to snuff or were they afraid someone was going to hack them? I think this was a bad decision on their part.

09-28-2010, 11:02 AM	#18
Reportage Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 739	i think they were worried on what might be found on the exif? i can understand if picture quality is the issue but thats understandable since its a pre-production model. Any decent photographer would reserve judgement on iq till the final version is released. the only other thing i can think of is they are worried just how much buffer it has and how fast it can write to card. But usually those things are finalised in the design stage arent they?

09-28-2010, 11:10 AM	#19
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	someone might be able to put in his/her SD card with a hecked boot code (then switch on/off) to disable the camera - don't think they want that to happen...

09-28-2010, 11:20 AM	#20
Reportage Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 739	Originally posted by aleonx3 someone might be able to put in his/her SD card with a hecked boot code (then switch on/off) to disable the camera - don't think they want that to happen... thats new to me...didnt know that can use code to permanently disable a camera. But i would think that the engineers are prepared for such eventuality and have prepared recovery methods?

09-28-2010, 11:27 AM	#21
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by Reportage thats new to me...didnt know that can use code to permanently disable a camera. But i would think that the engineers are prepared for such eventuality and have prepared recovery methods? Don't even need any hecked code, try the firmware upgrade and shutdown the camera while the camera is loading... don't recommend you that on your camera though - When you are in the trade show (and you only have a few pre-production models to show), someone may be a fanboy of another camp to do such a thing. Yes, they can recover that, but not while they are in the tradeshow.

09-28-2010, 12:19 PM	#22
Raylon Guest	They don't want people taking pictures and then using the pictures to review the camera. The firmware isn't done yet so they still may have a few tricks to use to clean the images up better.

09-28-2010, 12:58 PM	#23
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Originally posted by Blue What was the logic? Was the fw not up to snuff or were they afraid someone was going to hack them? I think this was a bad decision on their part. They did the same four years ago with the k10 but samsung did not care with their gx10

09-28-2010, 03:36 PM	#24
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by thibs 2/ there were some pretty nice girls there 20/ did I mention the pretty girls? Hi thibs, I am glad you had a great time. May I propose everybody posts a few Photokina girls now I mean everybody who was anywhere near Cologne

09-28-2010, 04:12 PM	#26
JackBak Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Boulder, Colorado Posts: 88	It was not clear in my last post, sorry. DVT is not something that is done over a weekend it usually takes weeks and weeks -- think temperature chambers, voltage stresses, salt spray for weather sealing. All of this would push the release date back towards December. Thus my thinking of no hardware changes at this point.

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09-28-2010, 05:43 PM	#27
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Reportage the only other thing i can think of is they are worried just how much buffer it has and how fast it can write to card. But usually those things are finalised in the design stage arent they? The buffer was tested at Photokina to hold 8 RAWs at 7fps and it was specified as such in the Pentax Japan datasheet. Even if the units have been prototypes. It is clear that this detail in the specifications is pretty accurate already.

09-29-2010, 01:19 AM	#28
Reportage Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 739	Originally posted by falconeye The buffer was tested at Photokina to hold 8 RAWs at 7fps and it was specified as such in the Pentax Japan datasheet. Even if the units have been prototypes. It is clear that this detail in the specifications is pretty accurate already. makes me think that a buffer monster of a camera is in the works by Pentax.

09-29-2010, 03:26 AM	#29
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001 Original Poster	Originally posted by falconeye Hi thibs, I am glad you had a great time. May I propose everybody posts a few Photokina girls now I mean everybody who was anywhere near Cologne Thanks Falk but... Ouch didn't see the one on the right ...

09-29-2010, 03:55 AM	#30
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Originally posted by JackBak It was not clear in my last post, sorry. DVT is not something that is done over a weekend it usually takes weeks and weeks -- think temperature chambers, voltage stresses, salt spray for weather sealing. All of this would push the release date back towards December. Thus my thinking of no hardware changes at this point. They wouldn't have to go through all tests again, they make a judgment of what the change possible could affect and then they test that. I would say some firmware tests and that's about it. (IF there are no hardware changes other than slapping in a bigger pin compatible memory circuit.)