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09-27-2010, 10:12 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
I beg to differ, sir. If you're after serious HDR, it is most likely that your camera is mounted on a tripod and you're shooting some kind of a static scene, be it a land/city scape or studio still life. If so is the case, then nothing prevents you from taking a shot, dialing whatever exposure compensation you deem appropriate, taking another shot, and repeating last two steps until you are done implementing your plan. If however you just walk by and want to take a sequence of bracketing shots for sake of HDR in passing by mode, then I don't think that either camera is for you. There will have to be performed some serious processing in order to cross-register the images as I doubt you can handhold your camera still enough.

Either way, without any intent to attack you or any disrespect whatsoever, I am thinking that bells and whistles make our brains go blank every now and then. I know they do so to me.
Boris, no offense taken. One certainly can do manual bracketing, as you suggest.

But you don't sound like you have tried to do an 18 shot pano with 3 hdr images per each secctor for a total of 54 images. It doesn't take too many of those for one not to see the value in automated camera bracketing.

If it matters, I always do tripods for images i intend to sell so i'm no stranger to them. My car currently has in it 2 tripods and one monopod, 3 cameras, and 2 camera bags. Do i qualify to have an opinion?

best wishes,

09-27-2010, 10:17 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I was shocked to read the specs on the D7000 and find out that for exposure bracketing:

2 to 3 frames in 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 or 1EV increments

That is not adequate for HDR software. Kx, KR, K10, K20, K7 and presumably the new K5 have exposure bracketing that will put that spec to shame. even the Kx and Kr will do 3 images at 3 EV increments. the K20, K7, and K5 will do 3 or 5 images at up to 2 EV steps.

In addition, the K20, K7 and K5 will also do mulitple image exposures in camera, very useful for water work and other applications.
I saw that, and I suppose it could mean alot for someone who does alot of HDR, however... in most of my exposure stacks, I don't think I have ever used more than 3 frames and in many cases even just two. But that's just me.

For what its worth, its pretty hard to fault the D7000 with respect to the K-5. Given it's price and all of the features it holds over the K-5 at this time.
09-27-2010, 10:24 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by JohnBee Quote
For what its worth, its pretty hard to fault the D7000 with respect to the K-5. Given it's price and all of the features it holds over the K-5 at this time.

+1. couldn't agree with you more on this.

we can say that the mag alloy and the WR aren't as good and it doesn't have SR, bracketing is not as good,

but...


it has AF in video, dual card slots, 39pt, AFc that tracks, tethering, 1/250th flash sync and currently $400 cheaper (based on current amazon/BH/adorama pricing).

like it or not the d7000 WILL be a competitor to the k5 even if we think the k5 is competing against the 7D and D300x.
09-27-2010, 10:25 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
different features matter to different folks.
HDR for me in-camera doesn't matter. AFc/tracking does.

while the K5 has a new safox IX+, and initial reports look very good, i'll wait until the formal reviews and more field reports come in using FW 1.0.

same with the nikon 39pt AF. spec wise, it's nice, but how does it really perform in the field? of course, few reports indicate it's much faster than the d90, but we'll need to wait.

but i wouln't consider either camera "crippled", just differently spec'd.
Yep, opiedog, thats a fair statement and your reasoning is sound! Tethering is like that for me. I just thought that since so many were criticizing the K5 in comparison to the D7000, it was time to draw attention to something that the D7000 doesn't do well. And i suspect that HDR has more general appeal out there than many realize. I went to a photography lecture the other day, the professional that gave the presentation said, oh by the way, "HDR is the future". That seems a little over the top, but it certainly is getting popular.

I'm sure the D7000 will sell well enough, its just not compatible with my interests.

09-27-2010, 10:28 AM   #20
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Reportedly the D90 had the same specs, but could actually do larger steps and whatnot.
09-27-2010, 01:14 PM   #21
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I would compare K-5 with 7D and D300s, D7000 and 60D are in the same league, D7000 is definitely better than 60D, even K-r can be a little better performer than the 60D... D7000 is a little better than K-r for the build quality...
09-27-2010, 10:51 PM   #22
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have you used aa modern hdr program?

QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
I beg to differ, sir. If you're after serious HDR, it is most likely that your camera is mounted on a tripod and you're shooting some kind of a static scene, be it a land/city scape or studio still life. If so is the case, then nothing prevents you from taking a shot, dialing whatever exposure compensation you deem appropriate, taking another shot, and repeating last two steps until you are done implementing your plan. If however you just walk by and want to take a sequence of bracketing shots for sake of HDR in passing by mode, then I don't think that either camera is for you. There will have to be performed some serious processing in order to cross-register the images as I doubt you can handhold your camera still enough.

Either way, without any intent to attack you or any disrespect whatsoever, I am thinking that bells and whistles make our brains go blank every now and then. I know they do so to me.
any of the modern hdr programs will line up handheld hdr shots very accurately and fairly quick. it does not really take serious processing power, or really any effort at all to register the images
09-27-2010, 10:54 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
But you don't sound like you have tried to do an 18 shot pano with 3 hdr images per each secctor for a total of 54 images. It doesn't take too many of those for one not to see the value in automated camera bracketing.
Oh, I must have misunderstood you somehow. Because I was speaking about a single frame (non-panoramic) HDR where you have to take 3, 5, 7 tops shots of the same scene and combine them.

Panoramas are different. And HDR panoramas are even more so. Indeed, I don't shoot this kind of things, though I tried my K-7's HDR few times. It was, well, peculiar.

I wonder if modern (soon to be marketed) USD 10K medium format cameras (40 MPix or so) and sufficiently wide lens could be more useful in this case. Naturally, it is a different kettle of fish financially, but what would be a reason to try to shoot-n-stitch 5x9 HDR panorama shot if not for huge enlargement and consequently for sale?

09-27-2010, 10:54 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I was shocked to read the specs on the D7000 and find out that for exposure bracketing:

2 to 3 frames in 1/3, 1/2, 2/3 or 1EV increments
I can say that K-5 has no 3D tracking (tethered) AF and 39 AF points.
09-27-2010, 11:36 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
...
Panoramas are different. And HDR panoramas are even more so. Indeed, I don't shoot this kind of things, though I tried my K-7's HDR few times. It was, well, peculiar.

Naturally, it is a different kettle of fish financially, but what would be a reason to try to shoot-n-stitch 5x9 HDR panorama shot if not for huge enlargement and consequently for sale?
The reason i don't like K7's onboard HDR is that one doesn't have a lot of flexibility in tailoring it to the image you want. With a program like Photomatix, and a dozen other HDR programs, one can tailor the HDR to be very subtle, or very obvious. One of my HDR images is very subtle and not an obvious HDR application. It got second prize in a recent club contest, then sold immediately in a public gallery walk event, and then i sold it a second time. I put up another HDR that was more obvious and surreal, it has yet to sell and hasn't won any contests. I don't make any money on sales compared to my equipment costs, but it helps to defray some equipment.

If you're interested in HDR, i suggest you download a trial copy of Photomatix, its good for 30 days and in that time, you can easily learn it.

best wishes,
09-27-2010, 11:41 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I can say that K-5 has no 3D tracking (tethered) AF and 39 AF points.
You could, and i would agree, but that's not what the OP was making his point in regards to.
09-27-2010, 11:44 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I can say that K-5 has no 3D tracking (tethered) AF and 39 AF points.
Yep, you're right and if 3D tracking is your top priority, you should buy it. HDR is my top priority, so thats why i consider D7000 crippled compared to the K5. Different courses, different horses.

I actually have been able to get along well with the K20's accuracy, and with several folks saying that the K7 is better than the K20 and K5 is improved drastically, then that will be good enough for me. Your mileage may differ, and your interests in photography may be different enough from mine for you to consider that the D7000 not crippled. Neither of us is wrong, we just have different interests.

best wishes,
09-28-2010, 01:05 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
HDR is my top priority, so thats why i consider D7000 crippled compared to the K5. Different courses, different horses.


best wishes,
HDR is artificial picture, not real. I don't like it.
09-28-2010, 01:31 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
HDR is artificial picture, not real. I don't like it.
HDR properly made can be extremely natural and compensate for the short comings of a sensor.

See : HDR Plea

When properly made, it allows to avoid sky clipping (or other light sources) while maintaining a pleasing tonality in the scene. Therefore it is critical to be able to bracket of several EVs.

When not properly made it a synthetic feels that comes with every technic being overdone.
09-28-2010, 01:43 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
HDR is artificial picture, not real. I don't like it.
HDR if done subtly - the viewer will never know

HDR & extreme HDR seems all the rage now especially with a lot of landscape users these days

High & extreme HDR for me is ugly - the arty lot love it though
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