I think HOYA just whipped butt - discuss

**Ash** · 09-27-2010, 10:02 PM

Well this is an extension of the K-5 praise thread - only it's for more generic Pentax praise.

I don't see a price failure here - well in keeping with previous flagship models and competition. If someone wants a 7D ahead of a K-5, then go for it. I'm sure I'm not alone in believing the K-5 to be a better long-term investment than the 7D or D7000.

shiner · 09-27-2010, 10:42 PM

Well, I for one will be scraping together whatever I need and whatever it takes to acquire a K5 around the first of the year- and I can't wait!

lithos · 09-27-2010, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by ShadZee

From what I've read, the price is pretty competitive in Japan and Europe. Maybe those are the markets they want to win over?

Vanbar, one of Aus's more dedicated camera stores, has it tentatively listed at $1379AU, which should mean it'll be a bit cheaper in the US.

However, someone on another forum said that it's only a tentative, pre-order price, and if the price goes up, anyone who's pre-ordered will have to option to cancel it.

GordonZA · 09-27-2010, 11:03 PM

I have already made up my mind.... and will be upgrading my old K10D early next year...

(for me, photographing birds, the K5 is a quantum leap)

**Ash** · 09-27-2010, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by lithos

Vanbar, one of Aus's more dedicated camera stores, has it tentatively listed at $1379AU, which should mean it'll be a bit cheaper in the US.

However, someone on another forum said that it's only a tentative, pre-order price, and if the price goes up, anyone who's pre-ordered will have to option to cancel it.

That's wierd. Put a price on a product, allow people to pre-order, then hike the price up later. Why bother with a tentative price if they're unable to follow through on it?

FullertonImages · 09-27-2010, 11:48 PM

I don't understand how people expect to get ground breaking technology for less than the entry price of the last camera that wasn't even close to leading the current technology. The K-5 is every bit or more the equal to the 7D or D300s, and should be priced accordingly. It cost's money to make cameras. Everyone says if it was les than $100 they would have got one, but they won't for $1600. If Subaru started selling new cars at $15,000 a ton of people would buy those too. But Subaru would still go out of business...

hegedus · 09-27-2010, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by aleonx3

+1 Indeed this kind of cheerful comments is hard to come by. Some have decided to move on (if not already) to the other camp; however, some of us are still hanging around to get in on K-5 or K-r at the price points we are comfortable with and yet others are in "wait-and-see" status.

I also considered changing the whole system, because I had no confidence that Pentax can stay in the game. It seemed to me that there was no sense buying new lenses and other accessories unless something really big and exciting happens....well, I must say that K-5 and K-r really look promising. Suddenly Pentax looks like a real player in the dslr game, and I like that. Gives me the feeling that Pentax actually cares about their costumers, and this is a good feeling.

Freak · 09-28-2010, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by FullertonImages

I don't understand how people expect to get ground breaking technology for less than the entry price of the last camera that wasn't even close to leading the current technology. The K-5 is every bit or more the equal to the 7D or D300s, and should be priced accordingly.

Being Pentax, You cannot sell an even much better Camera technically, at the same price from a larger named rival than a lesser one. The only way for Pentax to win new users to the K-5 over the D7000, D300, & 7D & 60D is to offer it a lesser price with more features.

It's the same for any small company, you have to give more bang for buck, or you simply won't sell.

Pentax need to do the numbers, but my gut would say if you don't undercut the D7000 the extra profit you make from the people that do buy at the full RRP, will not come close to the amount you would gain if you sold it for the lesser price than the D7000.

It's a matter of either selling few @ full profit, or more at a lesser profit.... I have no doubt the latter is a much smarter way forward for Pentax to make more money of the K-5.

**Ash** · 09-28-2010, 12:39 AM

Originally posted by Freak

It's a matter of either selling few @ full profit, or more at a lesser profit.... I have no doubt the latter is a much smarter way forward for Pentax to make more money of the K-5.

This is just going with the flow of modern commercial practice. There is this notion that Pentax has to 'get with it' and do as the big boys do to survive/thrive/whatever. Throughout history, has Pentax veered far away from their unique niche and smaller target audience?

Such is the same issue with the perception that marketing needs to be done a certain way. Pentax make no illusions about their tactics:

lithos · 09-28-2010, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Ash

That's wierd. Put a price on a product, allow people to pre-order, then hike the price up later. Why bother with a tentative price if they're unable to follow through on it?

Bait and switch, without the switch? I don't know why, either. Maybe CRK themselves ain't sure.

dylansalt · 09-28-2010, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by FullertonImages

I don't understand how people expect to get ground breaking technology for less than the entry price of the last camera that wasn't even close to leading the current technology. The K-5 is every bit or more the equal to the 7D or D300s, and should be priced accordingly. It cost's money to make cameras. Everyone says if it was les than $100 they would have got one, but they won't for $1600. If Subaru started selling new cars at $15,000 a ton of people would buy those too. But Subaru would still go out of business...

Gee I didn't know that the K5 had already been tested head to head in every category with the 7D.................

We do know though that many users of the renowned 1dMK111 were quite happy to "downgrade" to a 7D and that is quite a testimonial.

I think we should wait for the "actual" shoot outs before we can comment the the K5 is the "king"

Nass · 09-28-2010, 02:09 AM

^^ Ash that's really really dreadful advertising. No wonder it was dropped. The Pentax USP is rugged, value for money cameras. Always better to be positive than negative in ads.

uccemebug · 09-28-2010, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by Mike.P®

LINK to news

Aha! Thanks. Cautiously optimistic!

Originally posted by robjmitchell

making want to sell a kidney so I can get a 645d

I handled one for the first time yesterday. Just plain great to hold, everything felt right .. noticeably better than the old 645 film gear. The AF was surprisingly fast. Holding it back to back with the K-r, I noticed that the viewfinder is literally twice the size of the one in the K-r.

Originally posted by lithos

And even I was amazed that Pentax pull a new AF system from...somewhere. I'm eagerly awaiting tests on that, but it seems a complete reinvigoration, if not reinvention, of the SAFOX system.

Haven't held the K5 yet but if it's anything like the K-r we're in for a treat. The AF in the K-r was downright shocking. I tracked someone walking toward me with the shutter release half-down and didn't even notice its smooth glide to keep the person in focus. Same with quick drops to the counter or the overhead lights and back to a ten-meter distant wall, or walking over the array of bodies sitting on the counter. I'm not an AF person but for once I was impressed. Someone referred to the K-r being like Canon's low-end cameras but it's just not true. They're little better than the __useless__ AF in my *DS.

Wheatfield · 09-28-2010, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by ShadZee

As most people have said; the price is the key.

At $1,600 it will NOT do well, no matter how good it is. They could win a HUGE market share if it came in at under $1,000... just like the K-x which blew away the competition in specs AND price.

From what I've read, the price is pretty competitive in Japan and Europe. Maybe those are the markets they want to win over?

Sure and it would be an even bigger hit if it came in at less than $750.00, but Pentax/Hoya is no longer in the business of selling at a loss.
FWIW, I got initial pricing from my pusher yesterday and it is significantly lower than $1600.00.

Bobe416 · 10-02-2010, 07:23 AM

Here is my 2 cents worth. Pentax has done a great job technically with the 3 new cameras (Kr, K5, 645D). The weak area is the marketing. They need to tell the world about the new cameras and the features.
Also they somehow need to tackle the lack of Pentax equipment in stores. When people are going to spend significant money on a camera and a set of lenses, I think they need to be able to touch and feel the equipment. I think this is especially true for new buyers.
Pentax needs to get store sales staff on their side so they are not just selling Canon and Nikon.

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09-27-2010, 10:02 PM	#16
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Well this is an extension of the K-5 praise thread - only it's for more generic Pentax praise. I don't see a price failure here - well in keeping with previous flagship models and competition. If someone wants a 7D ahead of a K-5, then go for it. I'm sure I'm not alone in believing the K-5 to be a better long-term investment than the 7D or D7000.

09-27-2010, 10:42 PM	#17
shiner Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: N GA USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,127	Well, I for one will be scraping together whatever I need and whatever it takes to acquire a K5 around the first of the year- and I can't wait!

09-27-2010, 10:48 PM	#18
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by ShadZee From what I've read, the price is pretty competitive in Japan and Europe. Maybe those are the markets they want to win over? Vanbar, one of Aus's more dedicated camera stores, has it tentatively listed at $1379AU, which should mean it'll be a bit cheaper in the US. However, someone on another forum said that it's only a tentative, pre-order price, and if the price goes up, anyone who's pre-ordered will have to option to cancel it.

09-27-2010, 11:03 PM	#19
GordonZA Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Planet Earth Photos: Albums Posts: 351	I have already made up my mind.... and will be upgrading my old K10D early next year... (for me, photographing birds, the K5 is a quantum leap)

09-27-2010, 11:41 PM	#20
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by lithos Vanbar, one of Aus's more dedicated camera stores, has it tentatively listed at $1379AU, which should mean it'll be a bit cheaper in the US. However, someone on another forum said that it's only a tentative, pre-order price, and if the price goes up, anyone who's pre-ordered will have to option to cancel it. That's wierd. Put a price on a product, allow people to pre-order, then hike the price up later. Why bother with a tentative price if they're unable to follow through on it?

09-27-2010, 11:48 PM	#21
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	I don't understand how people expect to get ground breaking technology for less than the entry price of the last camera that wasn't even close to leading the current technology. The K-5 is every bit or more the equal to the 7D or D300s, and should be priced accordingly. It cost's money to make cameras. Everyone says if it was les than $100 they would have got one, but they won't for $1600. If Subaru started selling new cars at $15,000 a ton of people would buy those too. But Subaru would still go out of business...

09-27-2010, 11:59 PM	#22
hegedus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Croatia Posts: 180	Originally posted by aleonx3 +1 Indeed this kind of cheerful comments is hard to come by. Some have decided to move on (if not already) to the other camp; however, some of us are still hanging around to get in on K-5 or K-r at the price points we are comfortable with and yet others are in "wait-and-see" status. I also considered changing the whole system, because I had no confidence that Pentax can stay in the game. It seemed to me that there was no sense buying new lenses and other accessories unless something really big and exciting happens....well, I must say that K-5 and K-r really look promising. Suddenly Pentax looks like a real player in the dslr game, and I like that. Gives me the feeling that Pentax actually cares about their costumers, and this is a good feeling.

09-28-2010, 12:01 AM	#23
Freak Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 361	Originally posted by FullertonImages I don't understand how people expect to get ground breaking technology for less than the entry price of the last camera that wasn't even close to leading the current technology. The K-5 is every bit or more the equal to the 7D or D300s, and should be priced accordingly. Being Pentax, You cannot sell an even much better Camera technically, at the same price from a larger named rival than a lesser one. The only way for Pentax to win new users to the K-5 over the D7000, D300, & 7D & 60D is to offer it a lesser price with more features. It's the same for any small company, you have to give more bang for buck, or you simply won't sell. Pentax need to do the numbers, but my gut would say if you don't undercut the D7000 the extra profit you make from the people that do buy at the full RRP, will not come close to the amount you would gain if you sold it for the lesser price than the D7000. It's a matter of either selling few @ full profit, or more at a lesser profit.... I have no doubt the latter is a much smarter way forward for Pentax to make more money of the K-5.

09-28-2010, 12:39 AM	#24
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by Freak It's a matter of either selling few @ full profit, or more at a lesser profit.... I have no doubt the latter is a much smarter way forward for Pentax to make more money of the K-5. This is just going with the flow of modern commercial practice. There is this notion that Pentax has to 'get with it' and do as the big boys do to survive/thrive/whatever. Throughout history, has Pentax veered far away from their unique niche and smaller target audience? Such is the same issue with the perception that marketing needs to be done a certain way. Pentax make no illusions about their tactics:

09-28-2010, 01:21 AM	#25
lithos Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Brisbane, QLD, AUS Posts: 3,261	Originally posted by Ash That's wierd. Put a price on a product, allow people to pre-order, then hike the price up later. Why bother with a tentative price if they're unable to follow through on it? Bait and switch, without the switch? I don't know why, either. Maybe CRK themselves ain't sure.

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09-28-2010, 01:58 AM	#26
dylansalt Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,052	Originally posted by FullertonImages I don't understand how people expect to get ground breaking technology for less than the entry price of the last camera that wasn't even close to leading the current technology. The K-5 is every bit or more the equal to the 7D or D300s, and should be priced accordingly. It cost's money to make cameras. Everyone says if it was les than $100 they would have got one, but they won't for $1600. If Subaru started selling new cars at $15,000 a ton of people would buy those too. But Subaru would still go out of business... Gee I didn't know that the K5 had already been tested head to head in every category with the 7D................. We do know though that many users of the renowned 1dMK111 were quite happy to "downgrade" to a 7D and that is quite a testimonial. I think we should wait for the "actual" shoot outs before we can comment the the K5 is the "king"

09-28-2010, 02:09 AM	#27
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	^^ Ash that's really really dreadful advertising. No wonder it was dropped. The Pentax USP is rugged, value for money cameras. Always better to be positive than negative in ads.

09-28-2010, 04:32 AM	#28
uccemebug Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 962	Originally posted by Mike.P® LINK to news Aha! Thanks. Cautiously optimistic! Originally posted by robjmitchell making want to sell a kidney so I can get a 645d I handled one for the first time yesterday. Just plain great to hold, everything felt right .. noticeably better than the old 645 film gear. The AF was surprisingly fast. Holding it back to back with the K-r, I noticed that the viewfinder is literally twice the size of the one in the K-r. Originally posted by lithos And even I was amazed that Pentax pull a new AF system from...somewhere. I'm eagerly awaiting tests on that, but it seems a complete reinvigoration, if not reinvention, of the SAFOX system. Haven't held the K5 yet but if it's anything like the K-r we're in for a treat. The AF in the K-r was downright shocking. I tracked someone walking toward me with the shutter release half-down and didn't even notice its smooth glide to keep the person in focus. Same with quick drops to the counter or the overhead lights and back to a ten-meter distant wall, or walking over the array of bodies sitting on the counter. I'm not an AF person but for once I was impressed. Someone referred to the K-r being like Canon's low-end cameras but it's just not true. They're little better than the __useless__ AF in my *DS.

09-28-2010, 07:55 AM	#29
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by ShadZee As most people have said; the price is the key. At $1,600 it will NOT do well, no matter how good it is. They could win a HUGE market share if it came in at under $1,000... just like the K-x which blew away the competition in specs AND price. From what I've read, the price is pretty competitive in Japan and Europe. Maybe those are the markets they want to win over? Sure and it would be an even bigger hit if it came in at less than $750.00, but Pentax/Hoya is no longer in the business of selling at a loss. FWIW, I got initial pricing from my pusher yesterday and it is significantly lower than $1600.00.

10-02-2010, 07:23 AM	#30
Bobe416 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 57	Here is my 2 cents worth. Pentax has done a great job technically with the 3 new cameras (Kr, K5, 645D). The weak area is the marketing. They need to tell the world about the new cameras and the features. Also they somehow need to tackle the lack of Pentax equipment in stores. When people are going to spend significant money on a camera and a set of lenses, I think they need to be able to touch and feel the equipment. I think this is especially true for new buyers. Pentax needs to get store sales staff on their side so they are not just selling Canon and Nikon.