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10-04-2010, 01:58 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by eurostar Quote
That's true. Problem is, no one Pentaxian would buy a Pentax D3/Eos1D, they want D700/Eos5D priced less than the Alpha 850... and I fear there is no margin, going there.
I'm quite sure there is a resonable margin on the a850 too (it only lacks sells quantity). It's not really high tech and never was.
There is only a larger sensor, maybe one more processor if speed is required, a FF mirrorbox and a bigger prism that differs from a crop camera. Of which only the sensor is needed to change between generations/models.
Logistics, body exterior parts, processor, distribution, etc. is the same as crop cameras. Adding a FF would also lower developing costs for the aps-c lines.

10-04-2010, 02:05 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Bayonet K is a brake of progress. It's valid technical reason.

We can see now that HOYA develops amateur APS-C system with DA lenses and pro MF system.
FA LIMITED is already NOT MADE IN JAPAN. The days are numbered.
We will see only slow DA and 2 macro (DFA) lenses for APS-C system in the nearest 1-2 years.
DFA and FA line of lenses died. And 90% of FA and FA* died on 2004.

And - remember, the man -
No Pentax. Pentax is just name of brand and photo division of HOYA.
I just don't know how the Mods and others can put up with all the gibberish unsubstantiated and unproven conjecture that you repeatedly post. Unless you got specific and credible info, frankly you know nothing...

And just for your info, the FA Limiteds are no longer made in Japan with the closure of the Mashiko factory and the shifting of all production to Vietnam is old news. The bulk of the FA & FA* lenses were discontinued because the 35mm film cameras produced by the old Pentax management (pre-Hoya) were rubbish and retail flops and losing money year after year. With film camera sales dropping, it was unsustainable to maintain the full range of lenses that's why the bulk of the lenses were discontinued. Also thank the old Pentax management for being too slow to delve into digital imaging.
10-04-2010, 02:10 AM   #48
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The initial high price (at least in US, really good priced where I come from) indicates that a affordable FF offering is not on the map in the near future
10-04-2010, 02:25 AM   #49
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That basically sums it all up. All of us who were waiting for FF from Pentax should seek it elsewhere.

10-04-2010, 02:31 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Boris Quote
Good plan, but I think that this camera will have to be offered in a kit form as well. So, a fourth lens, similar to good old FA 28-105/4-5.6 (PZ version) will have to be offered to the prospective buyers.
I'd vote for a DFA 24-90f4 based on the FA 24-90f3.5-4.5... but I am not getting my hopes too high.:ugh:
10-04-2010, 03:09 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote

And just for your info, the FA Limiteds are no longer made in Japan with the closure of the Mashiko factory and the shifting of all production to Vietnam is old news. The bulk of the FA & FA* lenses were discontinued because the 35mm film cameras produced by the old Pentax management (pre-Hoya) were rubbish and retail flops and losing money year after year. With film camera sales dropping, it was unsustainable to maintain the full range of lenses that's why the bulk of the lenses were discontinued. Also thank the old Pentax management for being too slow to delve into digital imaging.
I know it...What else?
10-04-2010, 04:25 AM   #52
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I don't understand the focus of a tiny full frame camera body, ie sticking a full frame sensor in a K7 body. Why not use something at least the size of the K20/10. Using full frame lenses on a smaller camera body just feels oddly balanced to me -- particularly the longer stuff.
10-04-2010, 04:29 AM   #53
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I've said it several times, FF is a tiny market compared to APS-C that is well and truly stitched up by Canikon. Pentax should focus on what they do best; I really don't seem them giving in to a handful of pentaxforums members.

Even then, even if they did release a FF body there would be numerous threads ad nauseum about "the FPS isn't good enough" or "the high ISO noise isn't as good as the D700".

People need to talk less and take more photos.

10-04-2010, 10:26 AM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by ilya80 Quote
No HOYA/Pentax official ever claimed it in these terms. All they said about it is literally: "Stop asking."
Actually everybody who really wanted FF camera herd this answer 2 years ago, and left to Nikon-Canon markets.

Last edited by awo425; 10-04-2010 at 10:33 AM.
10-04-2010, 10:56 AM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by fry Quote
Gentlemen,

In my opinion, your hype about full format sensors is misguided. The future is APS-C, just like in the film age - newer cameras were smaller not larger. So look who's making the beautiful small DSLR today? Right, Pentax. That's the future.

With the exception of the Leica M9, all full format cameras are HUGE, simply because the mirror swipe needed is related to the sensor size. The price to be paid for “Full format” or “Medium format” is: much bigger and heavier equipment (e.g., Nikon D700, Pentax 645D) or lack of features (e.g., Leica M9 with rangefinder in place of autofocus).


FF only gives you less noise if the pixel size is bigger, and then only for some 3 years, until the next APS-C sensor generation matches that noise level. So FF is just bridging the time until APS-C sensors have the noise level you need, which may be now, with the latest Sony sensor.


Higher resolution? Yes, but with the vast majority of the glass available, the sensors will outperform the lens, so what's the point unless you pay 20k+ for a system? Still, Pentax is there, with the 645D, (which I admire but will never buy, since I want to CARRY my camera not lock it away...)



Lenses like the Pentax Limiteds give you beautiful bokeh in APS-C. For my taste, beautiful enough.



With the new K5 sensor, ISO 3200 is very good, 12800 is acceptable (maybe with post processing) and 51200 available (and for small print formats, using noise reduction post processing, probably ok).


Best, C
Thank you!
10-04-2010, 11:50 AM - 1 Like   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Bayonet K is a brake of progress. It's valid technical reason.

We can see now that HOYA develops amateur APS-C system with DA lenses and pro MF system.
FA LIMITED is already NOT MADE IN JAPAN. The days are numbered.
We will see only slow DA and 2 macro (DFA) lenses for APS-C system in the nearest 1-2 years.
DFA and FA line of lenses died. And 90% of FA and FA* died on 2004.

And - remember, the man -
No Pentax. Pentax is just name of brand and photo division of HOYA.
What a load of...

It's not a valid technical reason just because you say so. Is it the theoretically ideal mount? Of course not. But, does it have to be changed? What for? You are unable to point to a single reason, why Pentax should give up to the K-mount. And why Nikon shouldn't
Also, you're ignoring the consequences - suddenly losing all their market share - which most likely means their death. Ignorance is your middle name.

You don't even know about their lens lines? Your Cluelessness, the FA lens line is dead, replaced by the "digital" versions (as the FA line replaced the F, F the A, A the M...). Few FA lenses are still in production, but no new one were/will be made since then.
But DFA, come on... even you should know about the DFA 100mm f/2.8 WR. And you should also know about the 2 brand-new lenses, the 35mm f/2.4 and the 18-135 WR, both K-mount. Yes, clueless one, Pentax is still launching new K-mount lenses...

And remember: Pentax is still alive. Who cares if it's a division of Hoya Corporation, or Pentax Corporation? They're alive.
10-04-2010, 12:31 PM   #57
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You can get a Pentax FF off eBay for less than £100. You just need to put film in it.

So, instead of spending £2,500 on a camera, get a film camera secondhand for almost nothing, buy a carrier bag full of film, stick you Limited lenses, lor whatever legacy glass you want to use on the front, take some pictures, get it developed and scanned and then enjoy (and learn from) the results.

You'll have saved money, learned something and taken some (FF) pictures.

Or, you can endlessly procastinate about the likelihood of FF digital, or why it should be done, or why it shouldn't be done.

I reckon by now Hoya know some people want FF digital. You don't plan production of expensive consumer goods without doing some research.

As Yoda would say: "It will happen, or happen it will not. In the meantime, take some pictures"
10-04-2010, 12:58 PM - 1 Like   #58
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It's very interesting... yet another thread that has degenerated into an argument. Interesting because, at the heart of it, the argument stems from frustration with Pentax, which seems to be a recurring theme.

I may not care about FF (believe me FF fans, I feel your pain but it's time to give it up)... but I've been frustrated with Pentax's lens lineup for a while. And it's gotten worse as I've seen the competition and even third-party firms come out with new products only to be met with stony silence from Pentax. Tokina's 11-16 is but one example.

But I think I've turned a corner. I plan to buy a K-5 in a year or so (when the price comes down) and will probably proceed with my plan to begin collecting DA Limited primes. Because I already have a number of Pentax lenses and accessories, I'll enjoy the system for as long as I can afford it or as long as it remains relevent for me. After all, it's not like I don't enjoy the Pentax gear that I have - I really do.

But I have decided to base my purchases on two things: what I can afford ($700 limit on lenses)... and what is available at the point I need or want a camera body, lens or accessory. No longer will I wait in the hope that Pentax will introduce exactly what I want. If I reach a point where Pentax can no longer keep me happy, I'll sell my gear and move elsewhere. I advise others - especially long-suffering FF fans - to do the same.

Please understand, FF fans, I'm not putting you down in anyway. Just because I'm happy with APS-C dosn't mean I can't understand why you want FF. I understand your point. I'm just saying it's time to stop waiting. Either Pentax has what you want or it doesn't. Let the marketplace speak.

Now... should I start on the DA Limiteds right away or buy a DA 12-24 first...

Last edited by Biro; 10-04-2010 at 01:04 PM.
10-04-2010, 02:07 PM   #59
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No it isn't time to give up, and no we don't have to think like people who have. All of these arguments saying no to FF are really even more pointless than the people like myself who talk about wanting FF to supplement my gear (I want two camera bodies, one APS-C, one FF). I don't want Nikon or Canon so constantly reminding us that they exist is pointless too. How about let the people who want FF talk about it amongst each other and just not bother reading these threads? Maybe that would make your life less stressful worrying about us. haha
10-04-2010, 02:44 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
No it isn't time to give up, and no we don't have to think like people who have. All of these arguments saying no to FF are really even more pointless than the people like myself who talk about wanting FF to supplement my gear (I want two camera bodies, one APS-C, one FF). I don't want Nikon or Canon so constantly reminding us that they exist is pointless too. How about let the people who want FF talk about it amongst each other and just not bother reading these threads? Maybe that would make your life less stressful worrying about us. haha
Oh I'm not stressed... I'm just relating how I worked out some of my own frustration with Pentax. But clearly at least some people in this string are very stressed.
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