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10-08-2010, 09:20 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Extra-smooth SDM autofocus operation
A DC motor built into the lens’ AF (autofocus) unit assures extra-smooth autofocus operation. Since it features a rotation-free mechanism to keep the focus ring stationary during autofocus operation, the user can hold the lens in exactly the same way as when using this lens in the manual-focus mode.



No doubt, that DC is more simple and reliable version of SDM.
It's not ring motor. But we don't have description of DC motor from Pentax, that's why we can't say anything about it.
We do have an inference:
ROTARY ACTUATOR
and that motor has nothing really in common w/ a USM type motor.....
Is Tokina using this design? Wouldn't put it past them. Tokina and Hoya have some ties.. what they exactly are is speculative...
That they work together and share "stuff" is pretty obvious.
Tokina is a "private" company (more like an LLC) and Hoya is a public company. MY speculation is that some in Hoya do hold some kind of "control" in tokina.
Translation of a Hoya rep. once stated Hoya "owns" Tokina... but I "believe" this was an implication on a much different level then what most think of of "ownership"...Seems Japanese business relations can be a lot less straight forward than we picture...
THK is an importer of products representing both Hoya and tokina et. al.(Slik, Kenko)
Besdes the "interview" (there are 2 different in reference to Hoya/Tokina) there is no "smoking gun" to link direct control of Tokina w/ Hoya..... but there is evidence that many Tokina lens formula designs are Pentax.
boring and fascinating at the same time......
Ogl I know you dismiss this but it bears repeating for the young-un's.........
http://www.photographyblog.com/news/pentax_and_samsung_partnership_not_perfect/
QuoteQuote:
Mr Iue admitted that Hoya bought Pentax predominantly for their medical division and expertise, but they did also want the camera part too. Hoya firmly denied any plans to sell the Pentax photo division to Samsung or any other company, commenting that they had only just bought the company. Similarly, Hoya aren’t planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=29524341
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/38669-structure-hoya-c...-tokina-2.html
http://www.kallepahajoki.net/2008/09/22/the-hoya-pentax-tokina-tamron-and-sa...-who-owns-who/
QuoteQuote:
I’ve also provided a link to the patent information, which makes it abdundantly clear, who designed the lens (Pentax).
Tokina AT-X 124 / smc P-DA 12-24mm F4.0
Designed by Tokina, the Pentax version manufactured by Pentax also available from Samsung as D-Xenon 12-24mm (manufactured again, by Pentax)
Tokina AT-X 107 / smc P-DA Fish-Eye 10-17 F3.5-4.5
Designed by Pentax, manufactured for Pentax and Samsung (as D-Xenogon) by Pentax.
Tokina AT-X M100 / smc P-D FA 100mm F2.8 Macro
Designed by Pentax.
Tokina AT-X 535 Pro DX / smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8
Designed (patented) by Pentax.
Tokina AT-X 165 Pro DX / smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8
Designed (patented) by Pentax.
should mention 1 unsubstantiated rumor........
The brother of the CEO of Hoya owns Tokina...


Last edited by jeffkrol; 10-08-2010 at 09:37 PM.
10-08-2010, 11:42 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
We do have an inference:
ROTARY ACTUATOR
and that motor has nothing really in common w/ a USM type motor.....
The problem is that it's just one of patents, and new DC motor in 18-135 and DC motor in this patent are different.
10-08-2010, 11:53 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
We do have an inference:

The brother of the CEO of Hoya owns Tokina...
It's Asian level of cooperation.
HOYA has no need to own Tokina, which uses 90% Pentax lenses patents and 100% glass from HOYA.

But...Tokina was established by Nikon's engineers (it's fact) and still has undercover contacts with Nikon in making new FF lenses. It's just guess and rumors (from Nikon insiders).

My main idea -
1. Pentax and HOYA are lens design and glass donors of Tokina.
2. Tokina is too small to make lenses for Pentax.
3. Tokina-Kenko and HOYA have close contact in bussiness.
4. But Tokina-Kenko is officially independent company.
10-09-2010, 12:07 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miguel Quote
Sorry Phil, but you are the one who is mistaken here.
I own a Tokina AF lens, do you?
The AF/MF changeover is a push/pull clutch mechanism. Not a Quick Shift by any means.
Some Canon lenses,BTW, do have a quick shift-like action.

M
Nope, i don't have a Tokina lens. The description sounded very similar from the caption.

10-09-2010, 01:37 AM   #35
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What i care about is the fact that the lenses below are not available for Pentax mount.

Tokina 12-24/4
Tokina 16-50/2.8
Tokina 50-135/2.8

There are equivalent Pentax lenses. I don't really care if they are the same, use similar materials, licensed, etc. What matters is the Pentax versions are SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE.

I can have a Nikon D7000 with the above mentioned lenses for much much much lower price than a K-5 with Pentax version of those lenses. That I can call, "A poor man's Pentax" hehe.
10-09-2010, 02:38 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by RolloR Quote
What matters is the Pentax versions are SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE.

That's the point, despite WR and slow/unreliable as it is SDM, it cost more for users.
10-09-2010, 03:32 AM   #37
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Hoya and Tokina have the same web designers.
10-09-2010, 04:01 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
Hoya and Tokina have the same web designers.
how do you understand it?

Tokina
HOYA CORPORATION

10-09-2010, 04:30 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by RolloR Quote
What i care about is the fact that the lenses below are not available for Pentax mount.

Tokina 12-24/4
Tokina 16-50/2.8
Tokina 50-135/2.8

There are equivalent Pentax lenses. I don't really care if they are the same, use similar materials, licensed, etc. What matters is the Pentax versions are SIGNIFICANTLY MORE EXPENSIVE.

I can have a Nikon D7000 with the above mentioned lenses for much much much lower price than a K-5 with Pentax version of those lenses. That I can call, "A poor man's Pentax" hehe.
Well, the problem really is that Pentax (I guess when they were hurting for money) licensed the optical designs of these lenses to Tokina (except the 12-24?). Tokina sells third party glass for other mounts. They have to undercut current prices of Nikon and Canon for the lenses they sell or they will not sell any.

On the other hand, Pentax is making lenses for their own mount. By dint of that, there lenses will command a premium over other third party options (such as Sigma) and may have less chance of focus problems and other issues.

I agree that Pentax was foolish to license their designs to Tokina. Better to keep your glass special for your own mount, but they were bleeding pretty heavily in the late 90s, early 2000's and let them use the designs.
10-09-2010, 04:30 AM   #40
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See Tokina story in Wikipedia. Tokina is not part of Hoya

Tokina - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10-09-2010, 04:42 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
We do have an inference:
ROTARY ACTUATOR
and that motor has nothing really in common w/ a USM type motor.....
And it is not a DC motor.
10-09-2010, 05:46 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
how do you understand it?

Tokina
HOYA CORPORATION
Tokina

HOYA FILTERS - The Difference is Clear

Look at the menu bars.
10-09-2010, 05:59 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote


menu bars....funny

it could be surprise, but web-design of site are ususlly simply ordered to web-design companies...

there are a lot of site in the web with similiar menu bars.

It's site of HOYA filters, not HOYA main site. But it's well-known fact that
Hoya filters are products of cooperation of Tokina-Kenko with Hoya.
10-09-2010, 06:30 AM   #44
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Japanese company have a lot of close tie, most business for Japanese is done with large distributor
In the site that is presented , this is the distribution arm for these company . They created that company to market the product of the different partner.
10-10-2010, 06:04 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
And it is not a DC motor.
I'm not sure if anyone is using any correct terms for their motors...
QuoteQuote:
駆動系には新開発のユニットであるSD-M(Silent Drive -Module)を搭載。 Drive system is a newly developed unit SD-M (Silent Drive-Module) chip. DCモーターと減速ギアを一体化して密封構造として静音化。 DC noise reduction as a sealed structure to integrate the motor and reduction gear. またより分解能の高いGMRセンサー(高精度磁気センサー)を用いることで、より精度の高いフォーカス制御とAFの高速化を同時に実現している。 Higher resolution sensors and GMR (a magnetic sensor accuracy) by using a more precise focus control and AF has achieved a speed.
http://www.dslrphoto.com/dslr/tokina-announces-sd-16-28mm-f28-if-fx-lens-for...lrs,16810.html
to integrate the motor and the reduction gear......... seems to fit the Pentax method of incorporating the "motor" around the drive gear.
But it seems they are not related, but I won't rule it out completely yet......

Last edited by jeffkrol; 10-10-2010 at 06:18 AM.
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