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10-11-2010, 08:26 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Extra-smooth SDM autofocus operation
A DC motor built into the lens’ AF (autofocus) unit assures extra-smooth autofocus operation. Since it features a rotation-free mechanism to keep the focus ring stationary during autofocus operation, the user can hold the lens in exactly the same way as when using this lens in the manual-focus mode.



No doubt, that DC is more simple and reliable version of SDM.
It's not ring motor. But we don't have description of DC motor from Pentax, that's why we can't say anything about it.
More likely, DC motor is just SDM with a new name. SDM used an in-lens micromotor, which was probably a DC brushless motor.

Pentax probably just changed the name due to the negative reliability connotations of SDM. Kind of like when Chrysler changed the name of their 4-speed electronic transmission from A413 to 41TE. Same part, new name.

10-11-2010, 09:02 AM   #47
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I'm beginning to suspect DC is not DC/AC but some other initials such as "direct coupled" meaning the motor is not reduction geared. Of course this brings us back to the Pentax patents and the "ring motor" which is not Ultrasonic in any manner.
Why advertise a DC motor.? and they certainly don't list it as "their tech"...
10-11-2010, 10:38 AM   #48
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Of course Tokina lenses for Canon and Nikon are less expensive than Pentax lenses for Pentax. It's more to a lens design than the optical formula.

The Pentax DA Stars are weather sealed, the Tokinas are not.
If you buy a Nikon D7000 with Tokina 16-50 f/2.8 then you will get a weather sealed body with a non-weather sealed lens.

If you buy a Pentax K-5 with Pentax DA Star 16-50 f/2.8 then you will get a complete weather sealed package with both body and lens weather sealed.

I don't see it as wrong that Pentax has sold some lens designs to Tokina. The Pentax userbase is too small for paying for the development of those lenses, by expanding the userbase to Canon and Nikon then Pentax can earn money that they can use for developing new lenses.

The rumours about Tokina making the Pentax lenses are untrue. Just look at the labels. The Pentax lenses are "Assembled in Vietnam". Tokina does not have a lens assemblent plant in Vietnam. Well now, who has? Pentax! Pentax actually has two lens assemblent plants in Vietnam.

About this on-going rumour about Hoya owning Tokina - that is also untrue.
Tokina has close connections to Kenko.
Hoya co-operates with Kenko on lens filters (Kenko manufacturers the Hoya filters).
Hoya also sells optical lens elements to Tokina. (well, they sell to Sigma and Nikon too...)...

About this DC-motor thing.
Pentax did not invented the DC motor.
But Pentax has indeed patents for a DC motor design for in-lens motors.

Tokina could use the Pentax DC design, or their own or someone else. Why would this matter? I don't know. It doesn't matter for me.
10-11-2010, 11:22 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
About this on-going rumour about Hoya owning Tokina - that is also untrue.
Tokina has close connections to Kenko.
Hoya co-operates with Kenko on lens filters (Kenko manufacturers the Hoya filters).
Hoya also sells optical lens elements to Tokina. (well, they sell to Sigma and Nikon too...)...

September 29, 2008
Pentax’s Sales & Marketing Director of Imaging Systems, Mr. Toshiak
"Pentax’s relationship with parent company Hoya was questioned, with Mr Iue replying that “Hoya is really serious about Pentax, as it’s a well-known consumer brand, which Hoya isn’t”. Mr Iue admitted that Hoya bought Pentax predominantly for their medical division and expertise, but they did also want the camera part too. Hoya firmly denied any plans to sell the Pentax photo division to Samsung or any other company, commenting that they had only just bought the company. Similarly, Hoya aren’t planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax."

JeffKrol
already posted this, but since nobody actually reads the content of most of the post I will re-post.

10-11-2010, 12:22 PM   #50
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IIRC, that wasn't said by Mr. Toshiak (is the right name? There's no stand alone 'k' in Japanese...). It wasn't a quote, but what the article's author said (subject to his interpretation).
Tokina is a separate company, that's easy to check. So Hoya can't sell them; but they could sell any shares they may have.

http://www.tokina.co.jp/en/outline.html
10-11-2010, 12:27 PM   #51
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Man, we can always count on a good Tokina debate to get us through a slow news period
10-11-2010, 12:32 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
IIRC, that wasn't said by Mr. Toshiak (is the right name? There's no stand alone 'k' in Japanese...). It wasn't a quote, but what the article's author said (subject to his interpretation).
Tokina is a separate company, that's easy to check. So Hoya can't sell them; but they could sell any shares they may have.

Corporate Profile | TOKINA
QuoteQuote:
Mr. Toshiaki Iue
Hoya ownes Tokina??? : Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
NOW to make my point (more like a belief) perfectly clear.. Hoya does not OWN Tokina outright as we understand it. As to financial/admin decision making I believe there is a connection (be it familial or purely business) between Tokina and Hoya. This connection may be quite loose (as 2 brothers sitting over a coffee table) or tighter (as someone in Hoya holding real financial strength).
All of this is "best guess speculation" from various web "resources"....
I also speculate Tokina is set up like this (some Japanese business relations have no direct US equiv.):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugen_kaisha
And also suspect someone (most likely CEO) of Hoya is in there somewhere as a "member".
SECOND "smoking gun" though more controversial then the first..........
QuoteQuote:
Hideto Fukazawa, Director of Hoya’s Tokina Industrial Division, also pointed out that the new polarizer isn’t as dark as you might expect. In fact, it is significantly lighter in tint than its predecessor. A new polarizing film has made this possible, and the result is the same polarizing with less light-loss. This means you can use faster shutter speeds or a smaller aperture in a given situation compared to the company’s older models.

Hoya expects the filters to hit stores in July and prices will vary based on filter size and type.
http://flash.popphoto.com/blog/hoya/index.html
like the person said...........
QuoteQuote:
Two cases of sloppy journalism within a couple of weeks? From two different journalists writing for two different sources? I guess that's possible, but it sounds to me like Hoya is deliberately letting slip that they own Tokina.

Based on our experience with Pentax, this seems like another example of the indirect way that Japanese companies like to communicate certain kinds of information.

Joe

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=29534908
Again, owning may not mean "OWNING"
I believe Hoya has a good reason to keep the brands separated... and mysterious...

Last edited by jeffkrol; 10-11-2010 at 01:10 PM.
10-11-2010, 12:38 PM   #53
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It looks like there's a very close relationship between Tokina and Kenko; and a not so close one between any of them and Hoya.
I.e. Tokina's "owner" (shareholder) is Kenko. At least that's what they say on their website... but I don't think they would lie about this.

In order to sell Tokina, Hoya would need to buy it first (no matter how closely connected they might be, one can't sell what one doesn't own). But to buy it just to sell it afterwards, it doesn't make sense - does it? That's why I believe that statement ("Similarly, Hoya aren’t planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax.") is false.

10-11-2010, 12:44 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
IIRC, that wasn't said by Mr. Toshiak (is the right name? There's no stand alone 'k' in Japanese...). It wasn't a quote, but what the article's author said (subject to his interpretation).
Tokina is a separate company, that's easy to check. So Hoya can't sell them; but they could sell any shares they may have.

Corporate Profile | TOKINA
Pentaxís Sales & Marketing Director of Imaging Systems, Mr. Toshiaki Iue. I did not copy and paste the entire line by mistake.

"Hoya firmly denied any plans to sell the Pentax photo division to Samsung or any other company, commenting that they had only just bought the company. Similarly, Hoya arenít planning to sell the lens-maker Tokina, which they also own, or to merge it with Pentax."

It was not a direct quote, but a summation of the statements made by Hoya.

Everything else in the story was true or has come true since the story was published in 2008. I have no reason to think the writer decided to lie about the last paragraph.
10-11-2010, 01:02 PM   #55
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Tokina's shareholder: Kenko Co.ltd. End of story.
10-11-2010, 01:27 PM   #56
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Great News !

There's No Proof of any connection between Hoya ownership or control of Tokina, and Kenko !

So...

When will Tokina & Kenko produce teleconverters and lenses in Pentax mount (again) ?

2010 ?
2011 ??
2012 ???

Sigma and Tamron make some Pentax mount lenses available,
I wonder why Tokina and Kenko ignore the Pentax mount ????
10-11-2010, 01:28 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Tokina's shareholder: Kenko Co.ltd. End of story.
Isn't Kenko and Hoya filters the same but different "print" on them?
10-11-2010, 01:43 PM   #58
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With respect to the DC portion of this thread, and with OGL's comment earlier, and the quote (which comes from the Pentax Japan website) I wonder if the SDM has indeed been modified, but that the DC stands for dual clutch focussing mechanism as in some sigma lenses?

Speculating...... I know that this is not consistent with the quick shift capability this lens has.

Last edited by Clarkey; 10-11-2010 at 01:44 PM. Reason: wrong person quoted.
10-11-2010, 02:26 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Supernaut Quote
Isn't Kenko and Hoya filters the same but different "print" on them?
Some of the Hoya branded filters say Tokina on them. There is a lot of cross manufacturing and branding going on between these companies. Then there is THK which is obviously owned by Tokina, Hoya, & Kenko.

Kenko is a Limited company so it is privately owned. Hoya is a publicly traded company. Since Kenko is private we don't know what is going on with them. Hoya does not show Kenko on the books or in their annual reports.

I'm not a big believer in coincidence and there would have to be way too many of them for Kenko and Hoya not to be linked. My guess would be that the people who run the public company Hoya own Kenko privately. They use their position at Hoya to benefit Kenko. It appears to be a one way street with Hoya/Pentax sending intellectual property to Tokina and Hoya selling optical glass to Tokina and Kenko for lenses and filters.
10-11-2010, 03:18 PM   #60
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Might as well throw this into the pot............
QuoteQuote:
Rep told me that Hoya is owned by one brother, and Kenko the other brother. His boss has played golf with them. Not sure which, if either company owns Tokina.
thanks
barondla
Read more at: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/38669-structure-hoya-c...#ixzz125iVRKWe
or Bob Shell
Re: What Makes a Pentax a Pentax?
QuoteQuote:
I've known it since the acquisition. There was never any secrecy
about it. Hoya took over Kenko at about the same time. Press
releases went out about these deals, and I'm sure some of the photo
publications mentioned this.
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