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11-17-2010, 03:36 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
There is nothing worong with the idea of having a kit lens of that range, far more useful than 18-55 and 55-200 or 55-300.
That's an interesting take on it. Although my own experience has shown different. I have a s/h 18-55 (gets no use), and later got a 70-300 too to 'fill the top end'.
But happened to buy an 18-125mm zoom, by choice new with the camera. Mainly because it all seemed the right compromise.
Sure it's a great walkabout range, and it takes quite acceptable pix in that regard too, but sadly that's all that seemed to add up for me.

Then soon after, I researched and bought a 17-70mm zoom which also gave me 2.8 so slightly faster for low light, plus a pseudo-macro capability (more like good close focusing) which proves useful both in and out-doors too.

The point is; as a n00b and sort of semi-enthusiast 'general pic-taker' myself; the loss of that useful extra range at top end was more than worth sacrificing for the other small factors in a similar range 'one lens to carry zoom'.

So I really don't see that 18-135mm 3.5/5.6 is any better, than all the 18-200/250+ 3.5/.. are/were? (and seems a sacrifice if anything)
Unless IQ was really stunning, but that just doesn't happen. Canon's 18-135 certainly isn't talked about in that respect or any other, AFAIK!
(and Canon didn't even consider it worthy to add WR to theirs, so obviously not a sought-after selling point for their huge customer base)

Do you get what I mean?

.R.


Last edited by Hypocorism; 11-17-2010 at 03:51 AM.
11-17-2010, 04:16 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote

So I really don't see that 18-135mm 3.5/5.6 is any better, than all the 18-200/250+ 3.5/.. are/were? (and seems a sacrifice if anything)
Unless IQ was really stunning, but that just doesn't happen. Canon's 18-135 certainly isn't talked about in that respect or any other, AFAIK!
(and Canon didn't even consider it worthy to add WR to theirs, so obviously not a sought-after selling point for their huge customer base)

Do you get what I mean?

.R.
I get what you mean and what is boils down to is simply that each and every one of us have different uses so what may seem ideal or good for you may not seem so good for me. To me, the `WR` is rather important... No I know I can have the 16-50 and the 50-135 but my majot complaint with that is that, when you really need sealing or WR, the conditions are not very `lens-swapping-friendly`. For my personal shooting an 18-135 with WR will allow me more flexibility than two sealed lenses, therefore more shooting and more `keepers`even if IQ is not up to the 2.8 lenses.

Ofcourse 18-250 would allow me even more but in the conditions I mentioned before visibility is often reduced.

Last edited by janneman; 11-17-2010 at 04:32 AM.
11-17-2010, 04:52 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
To me, the `WR` is rather important... No I know I can have the 16-50 and the 50-135 but my majot complaint with that is that, when you really need sealing or WR, the conditions are not very `lens-swapping-friendly`. For my personal shooting an 18-135 with WR will allow me more flexibility than two sealed lenses, therefore more shooting and more `keepers`even if IQ is not up to the 2.8 lenses.

Ofcourse 18-250 would allow me even more but in the conditions I mentioned before visibility is often reduced.
Good points there. Can you tell me then how do you generally handle the much poorer lighting conditions imposed by the inclement weather?

I mean knowing that the f3.5 on these things rapidly closes down soon after touching the zoom ring, I found that becomes hard to contend with leading to a lot of limited opportunity for otherwise desirable, or even useful, shots. (except tripod assisted, and that's not always practical)

It's often those when nobody wants to be out times when so many great photos wait to be taken.

.R.

Last edited by Hypocorism; 11-17-2010 at 04:59 AM.
11-17-2010, 05:38 AM   #64
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Perhaps the high-ISO capability of the K-X/r and, especially the K-5, will give you the proper exposure in inclement weather.

As a focus group of one, I intend to get this lens with a K-5, in part to answer your question. We'll see in a few weeks if the optical properties + WR will justify the price. A bit early for a conclusion here, methinks.

11-17-2010, 05:54 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
Perhaps the high-ISO capability of the K-X/r and, especially the K-5, will give you the proper exposure in inclement weather.

We'll see in a few weeks if the optical properties + WR will justify the price. A bit early for a conclusion here, methinks.
I agree with glanglois.

I'm interested in a lens with this range, silent AF and WR, but only if it outperforms the 18-250mm that I recently gave away. I'm looking forward to user comments and reviews, and so far there's not nearly enough to decide on. Regarding price, this is the same ballpark as other manufacturers charge for a lens with this range, and no WR.
11-17-2010, 06:28 AM   #66
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This lenss in reality is to compete with Nikon & Canon who sell Camera with lense like 18-105(Nikon) or 28-135(canon)
This mean instead of shipping kit of 2 lens thay can ship kit with 1 lense to offer a better price ratio
11-17-2010, 06:30 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
Good points there.
Thank you......

QuoteOriginally posted by Hypocorism Quote
Can you tell me then how do you generally handle the much poorer lighting conditions imposed by the inclement weather? .
Two things here, if you shoot in these poorer lighting conditions and make them really work, they have to `show`these poorer conditions, in other words, they need to look `natural`.... No need to `brighten up` a picture, it may even be counterproductive...

samples

Pentax K10D, FA43-1.9 LE, handheld
1/15s f/2.0 at 43.0mm iso400
(judging from the light of the lamppost an increase in DR would have been helpfull here....)


Pentax *ist DS ,Pentax smc P-FA* 28-70mm f/2.8 AL, handheld
1/60s f/2.8 at 28.0mm iso200


Pentax K10D, FA *24/2.0 handheld
1/10s f/2.0 at 24.0mm iso400




As said by ganglois, the improved ISO performance will be of help ..
11-17-2010, 06:57 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
This lenss in reality is to compete with Nikon & Canon who sell Camera with lense like 18-105(Nikon) or 28-135(canon)
This mean instead of shipping kit of 2 lens thay can ship kit with 1 lense to offer a better price ratio
That's true too. Each competitor, whether they like it, want to, or not; are in effect forced to compete for attention in bundle similarity and price equivalence of their offerings in each segment.

We customers effectively dictate those game-plan rules for them, and having an extra in their line up is only a bonus for Pentax.

I wish it were 18-135 and 2.8/4[.5?] though, that would really make it an object of desire.

(I do use K-x Btw, so that ISO advantage is there - but naturally isn't the all-encompassing panacea in practice)

Great comments coming from all here Fwiw, so thanks. I've actually probably learnt a bit, if only to reassess my mostly inexperience-founded approach, methods and tactics.

.R.


Last edited by Hypocorism; 11-17-2010 at 07:11 AM.
11-17-2010, 07:04 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
why would a consumer not just go for the 18-55 and 55-300 combo? I think that the new lens is targeted at K-5 users who want a convenient walkaround lens that also boasts good performance.
For many who make the jump to a DSLR, any lens change seems daunting. My brother in law bought a lower-end Nikon rig with a superzoom because he wanted the quality of a larger camera, but he had no desire to ever buy a second lens.
11-17-2010, 11:21 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
..... but he had no desire to ever buy a second lens.
early symptom of LBA.....
11-17-2010, 11:35 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by janneman Quote
early symptom of LBA.....
Not necessarily. My brother in law is the same. He doesn't have and doesn't want any lens other than his 18-200mm. He wants a dlsr point-and-shoot. He freaked out when I tried to change the wb to tungsten. He was afraid he'd never know how to set it back again. Maybe he'll let me teach him to find Default All in the menu. It's the only menu item he needs.

My other b-i-l too; one lens, no playing with the settings, point, shoot. Frankly I think these people are in the majority now, we're the strange ones.
11-17-2010, 11:50 AM   #72
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You see, those reports about people who want DSLR quality without the DSLR experience tell me that this is the herd that will move on to EVIL and related approaches as the technologies mature.* Really, DSLRs were never really suited to their needs or expectations; I feel that they were partly just victims of DSLR hype. ("Take better pictures than your P&S" - not always!)

* there are of course other reasons to go EVIL. But I imagine many first-camera DSLR users will switch once it becomes less expensive and more convenient to do so.

That said, and back to topic - I am mostly a prime shooter, but I have an 18-55 WR for inclement weather and an 18-200 no-change lens for family trips to the zoo, etc. If the 18-135 WR had been available at the time, I would have been tempted to pay a bit more (and live with a slightly larger lens on-camera, when using) in order to serve both functions with one more versatile lens (and deal with rainy days at the zoo :-) ).
11-17-2010, 03:34 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Impartial Quote
..... in order to serve both functions with one more versatile lens (and deal with rainy days at the zoo :-) ).
Yeah, the alternative would be to stay home, prop up your feet, get the fireplace going and take a beer... or two....

....

....

ooops, just got a great idea... hey people, look on ebay for a nice sealed kit, payable in cases of beer
11-17-2010, 07:52 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
This lenss in reality is to compete with Nikon & Canon who sell Camera with lense like 18-105(Nikon) or 28-135(canon)
This mean instead of shipping kit of 2 lens thay can ship kit with 1 lense to offer a better price ratio
If you get a chance to put the Pentax 18-135 next to the Canon and Nikon 18-135 lenses, you will see that there really is no competition offered by either of those two brands. The Canon lens is a behemoth lens that doesn't focus as fast, and the Nikkor lens has no VR. The Pentax lens is much smaller and far better built than the either two, and even on the K10D, K200D and K20 the focus speed is surprising. Actually it's stunning.

The price is perfect for the lens relative to its "competition". There may not be a better, more stealthy, more flexible combo than the 18-135WR and the K-5. I had enough time with it today to check its focusing speed with a variety of cameras and compare it to some other camera/lens combos. Tomorrow I will check color, sharpness, close focus, vignetting, etc., but it looks like a fabulous lens for a great value.
11-17-2010, 07:53 PM   #75
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Good points. Yeah, the IQ loss is likely to be less than it has been, but it is still a zoom.

I think what has changed is the in-camera corrections available, which negate some of the worst points of owning one (CA, distortions, ISO). It's a balancing act. Personally, I'd rather have a 16-85 like another certain MFR, but with wr and make it f3.5-4.5 (like the old 28-105 FA).

The thing is, zooms are all about convenience, and if this glass is better than the kit (likely) and light to boot, I'd certainly pack one in my pack on my camera (I'd put two primes in as well, of course), you have a quiet, relatively tough little beasty for your travels that is mighty handy.

I'd go so far to expect a "L" version of this lens in the next year, to go with the lower end replacement of the K-r for those aforementioned folks who want an DSLR P&S.
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