New 35mm sensor from kodak, will we see it in pentax bodies?

bunegg · 11-07-2010, 02:32 AM

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/News/pressReleases/archive/2010/pr2.jhtml

Kodak made a new 35mm sensor. Possible that Pentax will go for it?

RawheaD · 11-07-2010, 02:55 AM

Anything is possible.

glanglois · 11-07-2010, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by bunegg

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/News/pressReleases/archive/2010/pr2.jhtml

Kodak made a new 35mm sensor. Possible that Pentax will go for it?

For what sort of camera? This is a CCD and maxes at four fps. It's part of an established line that's aimed at specific applications - industrial inspection, aerial photography, and security.

Will Pentax us it in surveillance cameras? Quite possible. In DSLR?? I cannot see how that would work out.

Sony is doing very well for us. TRUESENSE would be, I think, a distraction.

thibs · 11-07-2010, 09:15 AM

No way in here's why:
It has a global shutter but is NOT a full frame CCD (no, this has nothing to do with the sensor size) but Interline Transfer CCD. I have never seen such a sensor in a DSLR and very much doubt there will be any in near future.

Kodak CCD sensors used in DSLR are KAF-xxxxxx
Interline CCD are KAI-xxxxxxxx

EDIT: here's a link from DPR explaining (easily) the differences between both types of CCDs:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakdcs620x/

Last edited by thibs; 11-07-2010 at 09:21 AM.

ogl · 11-07-2010, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by thibs

No way in here's why:
It has a global shutter but is NOT a full frame CCD (no, this has nothing to do with the sensor size) but Interline Transfer CCD. I have never seen such a sensor in a DSLR and very much doubt there will be any in near future.

Kodak CCD sensors used in DSLR are KAF-xxxxxx
Interline CCD are KAI-xxxxxxxx

EDIT: here's a link from DPR explaining (easily) the differences between both types of CCDs:
Kodak Pro DCS620x Review: 1. Intro: Digital Photography Review

Kodak Announces Highest Resolution Interline Transfer CCD Image Sensor

4 fps at 29 MP

yes...KAI is for industrial use...

But there are KAF-18000 (FF) and KAF-37500, but I can't see such sensors at Kodak web-site.

sjwaldron · 11-07-2010, 01:08 PM

Pentax must have a relationship with Kodak due to the 645D, so I don't see any technical reasons Pentax could not use a full frame CCD from Kodak in such a body (the KAI/KAF point not withstanding).

Look at the K-7, K-5, and 645D... They all share a lot of the same properties. Given Pentax has recent experience with implementing and coding for Kodak sensors and would most likely be able to apply their existing PRIME electronics to process 4fps out of a FF sensor... I don't see any massive technical issues. Not to mention they could probably take other existing engineering aspects like viewfinder prism designs from their newer film cameras. I think it all comes down to the desire of Pentax to get into FF or not.

A compact Pentax 35mm full frame body with a Kodak CCD ala. 645D would be my most desired camera body at the moment. The cost of entry should be a lot lower than a 645D due to lenses and sheer cost scale differences, but will still reap the physical benefits, to a degree, like a larger frame camera does (bigger viewfinder, no crop, probably ISO benefits). Although I wonder how a current or near future Kodak FF sensor would rank compared to the K-5's high DR Sony sensor at this point...

The big question is will Pentax get into full frame to fill that gap between APS-C and MF. It will be interesting to see if that new WR super zoom lens is capable of filling a FF sensor. We already know the 35mm f2.4 is more than adequate. I think it all comes down to business and not technical issues.

eurostar · 11-07-2010, 02:18 PM

Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera.

Rory · 11-07-2010, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by eurostar

Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera.

Why? The 7D is faster than the 5D MkII.

glanglois · 11-07-2010, 05:30 PM

If this thread is deteriorating into another FF exercise, I'm off for a beer. Again.

And whilst doing so, I will contemplate how well Sony is serving Pentaxians.

sjwaldron · 11-07-2010, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by eurostar

Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera.

Point noted. However I think having a FF "field camera" is just what I would want. I don't need or want a FF machine gun. Sports and action fit better in the APS-C realm due to the crop factor benefit. I want a small light Pentax FF that's a mix of the K-7/5 and 645D. Not to mention the 645D is what... 1.1 fps or something? With the Kodak sensor, it would basically be a cost effective option for users looking for the physical benefits of a larger sensor camera (view finder, crop factor, ...). With the Kodak CCD that means no video or live view, but I would be okay with that. Pentax doesn't need to do more me-to machine gun cameras, Pentax (and I ) I think would be better suited to a FF shotgun camera in a hand gun body!

Originally posted by Rory

Why? The 7D is faster than the 5D MkII.

Thanks.

Originally posted by glanglois

If this thread is deteriorating into another FF exercise, I'm off for a beer. Again.
And whilst doing so, I will contemplate how well Sony is serving Pentaxians.

It's an endless cycle, but that's the point of forums isn't it?

ogl · 11-07-2010, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by eurostar

Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera.

D3s/D700 and 7D, and even K-r are faster than FF cameras with more MP.

thibs · 11-07-2010, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by sjwaldron

Pentax must have a relationship with Kodak due to the 645D, so I don't see any technical reasons Pentax could not use a full frame CCD from Kodak in such a body (the KAI/KAF point not withstanding).

Simple, if KAF sensor, no Video, no LV which means no market.
A rangefinder would be OK, otherwise no way. And since Pentax never did any RF AFAIK, we should forget all about that sensor.

eurostar · 11-08-2010, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Rory

Why? The 7D is faster than the 5D MkII.

Sure, but 5MDII is not the Canon flagship. Eos 1D and 1DS are. And they are more specced cameras than 7D. Same can be said for D3X, D700 and D300.

A FF camera from Pentax would be "the" flagship of the line, and I think it couldn't be slower than K-5 or following cameras. IMHO.

ogl · 11-08-2010, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by thibs

Simple, if KAF sensor, no Video, no LV which means no market.
A rangefinder would be OK, otherwise no way. And since Pentax never did any RF AFAIK, we should forget all about that sensor.

4 fps at 29 MP is not sensor for Leica M. No need 4 fps for rangefinder camera.

ogl · 11-08-2010, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by eurostar

Sure, but 5MDII is not the Canon flagship. Eos 1D and 1DS are. And they are more specced cameras than 7D. Same can be said for D3X, D700 and D300.

A FF camera from Pentax would be "the" flagship of the line, and I think it couldn't be slower than K-5 or following cameras. IMHO.

Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III has 5 fps@21MP
Sony A900 - 5 fps@24 MP
D3X - 5 fps@24 MP

EOS-1D is not FF camera.

4fps@29MP is good for such MP.

11-07-2010, 02:32 AM	#1
bunegg Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 82	New 35mm sensor from kodak, will we see it in pentax bodies? http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/News/pressReleases/archive/2010/pr2.jhtml Kodak made a new 35mm sensor. Possible that Pentax will go for it?

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11-07-2010, 02:55 AM	#2
RawheaD Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: MA, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 831	Anything is possible.

11-07-2010, 08:12 AM	#3
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Originally posted by bunegg http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/News/pressReleases/archive/2010/pr2.jhtml Kodak made a new 35mm sensor. Possible that Pentax will go for it? For what sort of camera? This is a CCD and maxes at four fps. It's part of an established line that's aimed at specific applications - industrial inspection, aerial photography, and security. Will Pentax us it in surveillance cameras? Quite possible. In DSLR?? I cannot see how that would work out. Sony is doing very well for us. TRUESENSE would be, I think, a distraction.

11-07-2010, 09:15 AM	#4
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	No way in here's why: It has a global shutter but is NOT a full frame CCD (no, this has nothing to do with the sensor size) but Interline Transfer CCD. I have never seen such a sensor in a DSLR and very much doubt there will be any in near future. Kodak CCD sensors used in DSLR are KAF-xxxxxx Interline CCD are KAI-xxxxxxxx EDIT: here's a link from DPR explaining (easily) the differences between both types of CCDs: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/kodakdcs620x/ Last edited by thibs; 11-07-2010 at 09:21 AM.

11-07-2010, 11:43 AM	#5
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by thibs No way in here's why: It has a global shutter but is NOT a full frame CCD (no, this has nothing to do with the sensor size) but Interline Transfer CCD. I have never seen such a sensor in a DSLR and very much doubt there will be any in near future. Kodak CCD sensors used in DSLR are KAF-xxxxxx Interline CCD are KAI-xxxxxxxx EDIT: here's a link from DPR explaining (easily) the differences between both types of CCDs: Kodak Pro DCS620x Review: 1. Intro: Digital Photography Review Kodak Announces Highest Resolution Interline Transfer CCD Image Sensor 4 fps at 29 MP yes...KAI is for industrial use... But there are KAF-18000 (FF) and KAF-37500, but I can't see such sensors at Kodak web-site.

11-07-2010, 01:08 PM	#6
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	Pentax must have a relationship with Kodak due to the 645D, so I don't see any technical reasons Pentax could not use a full frame CCD from Kodak in such a body (the KAI/KAF point not withstanding). Look at the K-7, K-5, and 645D... They all share a lot of the same properties. Given Pentax has recent experience with implementing and coding for Kodak sensors and would most likely be able to apply their existing PRIME electronics to process 4fps out of a FF sensor... I don't see any massive technical issues. Not to mention they could probably take other existing engineering aspects like viewfinder prism designs from their newer film cameras. I think it all comes down to the desire of Pentax to get into FF or not. A compact Pentax 35mm full frame body with a Kodak CCD ala. 645D would be my most desired camera body at the moment. The cost of entry should be a lot lower than a 645D due to lenses and sheer cost scale differences, but will still reap the physical benefits, to a degree, like a larger frame camera does (bigger viewfinder, no crop, probably ISO benefits). Although I wonder how a current or near future Kodak FF sensor would rank compared to the K-5's high DR Sony sensor at this point... The big question is will Pentax get into full frame to fill that gap between APS-C and MF. It will be interesting to see if that new WR super zoom lens is capable of filling a FF sensor. We already know the 35mm f2.4 is more than adequate. I think it all comes down to business and not technical issues.

11-07-2010, 02:18 PM	#7
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera.

11-07-2010, 02:31 PM	#8
Rory Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Chicago Photos: Gallery Posts: 672	Originally posted by eurostar Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera. Why? The 7D is faster than the 5D MkII.

11-07-2010, 05:30 PM	#9
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	If this thread is deteriorating into another FF exercise, I'm off for a beer. Again. And whilst doing so, I will contemplate how well Sony is serving Pentaxians.

11-07-2010, 06:38 PM	#10
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	Originally posted by eurostar Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera. Point noted. However I think having a FF "field camera" is just what I would want. I don't need or want a FF machine gun. Sports and action fit better in the APS-C realm due to the crop factor benefit. I want a small light Pentax FF that's a mix of the K-7/5 and 645D. Not to mention the 645D is what... 1.1 fps or something? With the Kodak sensor, it would basically be a cost effective option for users looking for the physical benefits of a larger sensor camera (view finder, crop factor, ...). With the Kodak CCD that means no video or live view, but I would be okay with that. Pentax doesn't need to do more me-to machine gun cameras, Pentax (and I ) I think would be better suited to a FF shotgun camera in a hand gun body! Originally posted by Rory Why? The 7D is faster than the 5D MkII. Thanks. Originally posted by glanglois If this thread is deteriorating into another FF exercise, I'm off for a beer. Again. And whilst doing so, I will contemplate how well Sony is serving Pentaxians. It's an endless cycle, but that's the point of forums isn't it?

11-07-2010, 09:17 PM	#11
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by eurostar Everything is possible, but I don't see Pentax going for a 4fps FF camera when the K-5 is 7fps. A FF from Pentax can't be slower or lesser specced than the flagship APS-C camera of the moment. Having the 645D as the "landscape camera", a FF have to be an action camera. D3s/D700 and 7D, and even K-r are faster than FF cameras with more MP.

11-07-2010, 11:39 PM	#12
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by sjwaldron Pentax must have a relationship with Kodak due to the 645D, so I don't see any technical reasons Pentax could not use a full frame CCD from Kodak in such a body (the KAI/KAF point not withstanding). Simple, if KAF sensor, no Video, no LV which means no market. A rangefinder would be OK, otherwise no way. And since Pentax never did any RF AFAIK, we should forget all about that sensor.

11-08-2010, 12:04 AM	#13
eurostar Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Albareto, Italy Photos: Gallery Posts: 819	Originally posted by Rory Why? The 7D is faster than the 5D MkII. Sure, but 5MDII is not the Canon flagship. Eos 1D and 1DS are. And they are more specced cameras than 7D. Same can be said for D3X, D700 and D300. A FF camera from Pentax would be "the" flagship of the line, and I think it couldn't be slower than K-5 or following cameras. IMHO.

11-08-2010, 01:04 AM	#14
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by thibs Simple, if KAF sensor, no Video, no LV which means no market. A rangefinder would be OK, otherwise no way. And since Pentax never did any RF AFAIK, we should forget all about that sensor. 4 fps at 29 MP is not sensor for Leica M. No need 4 fps for rangefinder camera.

11-08-2010, 01:08 AM	#15
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by eurostar Sure, but 5MDII is not the Canon flagship. Eos 1D and 1DS are. And they are more specced cameras than 7D. Same can be said for D3X, D700 and D300. A FF camera from Pentax would be "the" flagship of the line, and I think it couldn't be slower than K-5 or following cameras. IMHO. Canon EOS-1Ds Mark III has 5 fps@21MP Sony A900 - 5 fps@24 MP D3X - 5 fps@24 MP EOS-1D is not FF camera. 4fps@29MP is good for such MP.