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11-25-2010, 01:23 PM   #106
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It seems to me that somewhere around $1,500 is where FF would need to be to get the same market share as ASP-C. For most people there is a cost benefit analysis going on when they purchase a camera. For me, I just can't justify spending more than that on camera body. Not that I wouldn't like to own an M9 but I just don't make that kind of money and photography is just a hobby with me. I did buy a K5 but it was right at the margin.

I do have an Olympus E-P2 and am very happy with it. I'm not a pixel peeper though. If it prints at 13X19 I'm happy.

11-26-2010, 04:21 AM   #107
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Eiköhän tämä nykyinen k malli ole oikea, peilin kanssa kuitenkin kamera. Kun siihen saadaan täys 35mm kuva niin laatu paranee ja kuva laatu tulee lähemmäksi filmi kameran tasoa. Tärkeintä on että optiikat säilyy tämän nykyisen mukaan.
11-29-2010, 08:52 AM   #108
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Pentax filed a patent in Japan for a compact camera flash:


Could this Pentax flash patent be for their rumored mirrorless camera? | Photo Rumors

It's hard to tell what that patent is for, could just be a camera like a Canon G11 for all we know, but I'm hoping it's for their EVIL.
12-02-2010, 08:31 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Pentax filed a patent in Japan for a compact camera flash:


Could this Pentax flash patent be for their rumored mirrorless camera? | Photo Rumors

It's hard to tell what that patent is for, could just be a camera like a Canon G11 for all we know, but I'm hoping it's for their EVIL.
================================

Pentax should announce it by March. My K-Mount Glass is waiting for that one.

K-rumors said that Pentax will announce a new APS-C mirrorless system in February.

Pentax to release a mirrorless camera according to... CitiGroup | Photo Rumors

On page 2 of this Mirrorless Rumors | Home about Hoya (the owner of Pentax), you will see the following sentence:
“Hoya plans to release a mirrorless camera under Pentax brand that is distinct from models already on the market.”
No further information is provided. It is really weird that a financial corporation like CitiGroup would report rumors on their official report… unless they know something about this project.
Rumors of a new mirrorless camera from Pentax have been floating around for a while. Here are some of the recent quotes on this topic:
“Pentax engineers are continuing to pursue the possibility of launching a mirrorless interchangeable-lens camera, as the firm points to an ‘exciting’ few months ahead.”
“It’s quite clear that we don’t want to be seen as the same as everyone else. We would go down a different route. We are looking to grow. We want to grow. It’s going to be an exciting year. I think everybody will see a change in Pentax.”


Could this Pentax flash patent be for their rumored mirrorless camera?

By PR admin | Published: November 28, 2010
Pentax filed a patent in Japan for a compact camera flash: The flash drawings look very similar to the pop-up flash of the Panasonic GF2: Could this flash patent be for the rumored Pentax mirrorless camera? Based on the complexity of the design, I think Pentax is planning at least a high-end point-and-shoot camera (see their current P&S line-up here). Some [...]



Last edited by Rite; 12-02-2010 at 08:39 AM.
12-02-2010, 09:52 AM   #110
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I'd like to see it pick up some of the "rugged" styling cues of the W90 to really make it stand out.
12-03-2010, 08:33 AM   #111
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Really the only thing we haven't seen so far is a rugged semi-pro EVIL shaped like a rangefinder. Hopefully they mean that. They better hurry though; apparently Olympus is "going pro" with their m4/3's cameras early next year. The rumor is they plan on releasing their first rugged weather sealed body with built in EVF.
12-03-2010, 08:46 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
Really the only thing we haven't seen so far is a rugged semi-pro EVIL shaped like a rangefinder. Hopefully they mean that. They better hurry though; apparently Olympus is "going pro" with their m4/3's cameras early next year. The rumor is they plan on releasing their first rugged weather sealed body with built in EVF.

Despite of what Olympus has done with the m4/3 system (same goes for Panasonic), I can never get over the image size ratio (just like a P&S); never get it right for 4x6 prints (which is the most popular print size). At least for me anyway.. that is why I am looking forward for the Pentax EVIL to complement the k-5 (k-7 backup) for all my needs in the future.
12-03-2010, 09:51 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Despite of what Olympus has done with the m4/3 system (same goes for Panasonic), I can never get over the image size ratio (just like a P&S); never get it right for 4x6 prints (which is the most popular print size). At least for me anyway.. that is why I am looking forward for the Pentax EVIL to complement the k-5 (k-7 backup) for all my needs in the future.
That's not a real problem - I like the 4:3 format, although I would have preferred something in between (e.g. square root of two - like A4 paper). Or even wider than 3:2 - the Golden Ratio! (1.618)
The real problem is that those sensors look very weak now when compared to the K-5 sensor.

12-03-2010, 01:43 PM   #114
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Sony and Panasonic both are competing for the semi-pro movie market, the trend started by canon with their 5d-markII

both sony and panasonic are using their existing evil formats and extending them further. pansonic their g series, and sony their nex.

the advantage of this is cross compatibility of lenses accross two mediums. i really think, if pentax is to capture a bigger market, they should enter EVIL now.
12-03-2010, 01:49 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
A lot comes down to two questions: (1) what do Canon and Nikon really want to push? If they really want people to move into full frame, they can make certain that it happens, either by including features not found in lower end cameras or by dropping the price on full frame. (2) Have we reached close to maximum performance from APS-C? I have no idea on the second point, but it does seem like we are reaching the point of diminishing returns.

Let me be clear. APS-C is more than adequate for me and I am satisfied with it, but folks like Falconeye really believe that in the long term full frame is the best and cheapest option for high quality. I guess we'll all find out eventually, won't we?
I find this whole discussion fascinating. It reminds me of when personal computers, thought to be largely toys when they first hit the market, usurped the serious computers of the days - the Main Frames. The big app. that came along was the Lotus spread sheet which suddenly gave the PC credibility. Then it was the purchasing power of millions of consumers that pushed development dollars into the PC arena and pushed most Main Frames to the sidelines. Networks and individuals mattered, not specialists in some company office.

Yeah, Canon and Nikon's decisions will affect the outcome, but not control it. A big part of the eventual decision will be the purchasing power of the "unwashed masses". What do i know, but it seems to me that the cost, size and weight of quality lenses for FF will be a detriment to going completely full frame in the short term, for Nikon, Canon. Also, such a decision to go FF will cannabilize their lower cost cadre of APS cameras and lenses, will it not?

There are costs involved in refining the FF sensors to increase their advantage over the APS sensors. Are there sufficient potential customers to pay for those new FF sensors from 3 manufacturers? Not to mention any lens makeovers. The FF pace of change will have to slow i'm thinking, because several of the world's economies are still struggling.

Hoya has it figured out quite well. They are rushing a mirrorless camera to market, not a FF. I am astounded at how well Pentax is doing this year, 3 bodies and 2 lenses and no duds in the group. And one of those lenses has a new focus motor. And mighty Nikon was forced to come out with a low cost entry level high iso APS camera to compete with small market share Pentax.

Last edited by philbaum; 12-03-2010 at 01:56 PM.
12-03-2010, 02:29 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Hoya has it figured out quite well. They are rushing a mirrorless camera to market, not a FF. I am astounded at how well Pentax is doing this year, 3 bodies and 2 lenses and no duds in the group. And one of those lenses has a new focus motor. And mighty Nikon was forced to come out with a low cost entry level high iso APS camera to compete with small market share Pentax.
+1, I look forward to the new aps-c sensor EVIL from Pentax next spring (resisted the temptation to buy into canon g10, g11, now g12 for traveling light).
12-03-2010, 08:18 PM   #117
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i think they will make it WR... that will be there idea of 'distinct'

i hope it has the k-5 sensor :P
12-04-2010, 02:53 AM   #118
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Me too. It shall make a perfect handy companion to some fine glass I have.

QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote

i hope it has the k-5 sensor :P
12-04-2010, 05:46 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I find this whole discussion fascinating. It reminds me of when personal computers, thought to be largely toys when they first hit the market, usurped the serious computers of the days - the Main Frames. The big app. that came along was the Lotus spread sheet which suddenly gave the PC credibility. Then it was the purchasing power of millions of consumers that pushed development dollars into the PC arena and pushed most Main Frames to the sidelines. Networks and individuals mattered, not specialists in some company office.

Yeah, Canon and Nikon's decisions will affect the outcome, but not control it. A big part of the eventual decision will be the purchasing power of the "unwashed masses". What do i know, but it seems to me that the cost, size and weight of quality lenses for FF will be a detriment to going completely full frame in the short term, for Nikon, Canon. Also, such a decision to go FF will cannabilize their lower cost cadre of APS cameras and lenses, will it not?

There are costs involved in refining the FF sensors to increase their advantage over the APS sensors. Are there sufficient potential customers to pay for those new FF sensors from 3 manufacturers? Not to mention any lens makeovers. The FF pace of change will have to slow i'm thinking, because several of the world's economies are still struggling.

Hoya has it figured out quite well. They are rushing a mirrorless camera to market, not a FF. I am astounded at how well Pentax is doing this year, 3 bodies and 2 lenses and no duds in the group. And one of those lenses has a new focus motor. And mighty Nikon was forced to come out with a low cost entry level high iso APS camera to compete with small market share Pentax.
I agree with you entirely. So far, every one of Hoya's bets has come off well (K5 is a little over priced, but hey, it's selling like hot cakes). The question is if Canon or Nikon (Canon probably) would decide to release an "entry-level" full frame, say, at 1500 dollars. Immediately, that would do two things (1) destroy the upper end APS-C market and (2) significantly increase the number of users that bought full frame cameras.

I think 1500 dollars is the magic number and if someone decides to hit it, that would completely change the landscape.
12-04-2010, 07:14 AM   #120
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Sony hit it, and nearly destroyed itself...
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