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09-24-2007, 07:15 AM   #1
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Future body: better ISO performance?

This isn't a troll, and I don't want to start a huge debate. I just have one question which may be unanswerable at this point, but I'll ask anyways.

What is the likelihood that the rumored "Pro" Pentax body that is coming (at some point) will have better high ISO performance and less noise (similar to the 40D and D300) than the K10D?

This is the one feature that I really, really want. I shoot indoors in low light 80-90% of the time right now (portraits of my kids and family) and the ability to crank up the ISO to get a higher shutter speed without a significant noise penalty would be so helpful.

I don't need it tomorrow, or even by Christmas. But if the Hoya merger means that such a camera body may never appear, I really need to consider other options.

Thanks.

09-24-2007, 10:14 AM   #2
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since they use sony sensors, there's a good possibility you'll see the same sensors nikon switched to in a future pentax body.

as for low light, just get faster glass.
09-24-2007, 10:57 AM   #3
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Liking to do portraits most of the time, have you consider to buy a good flash and a cheaper (say k10d) camera? And of course some fast lenses.

What about a K10d+ 85mm f1.4? It shouldn't be much more expensive than a 40D or D300.
09-24-2007, 11:07 AM   #4
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My glass is pretty fast - the FA 43 and FA 77.

I've been getting into Strobist techniques, but still do like the freedom (i.e. less setup and gear) of shooting w/o flash.

09-24-2007, 11:25 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
My glass is pretty fast - the FA 43 and FA 77.

I've been getting into Strobist techniques, but still do like the freedom (i.e. less setup and gear) of shooting w/o flash.
That is a pretty nice and fast equipment. Being not the most experienced guy in the world I would say that if with such a glass you cannot take good pics cos the low light (and it has to be really low to not be able to have nice shutter speeds with those lenses) I would recomend you to jump to the D3 ship. If money is a problem you can always donate a kidney or surrender those lenses for the mission. . My point is that I would not wait for pentax to release a new model able to improve the iso of those cameras in the near future (before Christmas). And if it does it, it might not be at a cheap price, you can see also the post regarding the new directions of Hoya and how they might look for ways of increasing benefits. I think that to make the DA* lenses in Vietnam was serving this purpose and I think that the result has not been very good (as far as I have read the quality control problems is scary considering the fact that they are lenses close to 1000 USD)
09-24-2007, 11:47 AM   #6
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10-12 Mpix sensor noise...

QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
This isn't a troll, and I don't want to start a huge debate. I just have one question which may be unanswerable at this point, but I'll ask anyways.

What is the likelihood that the rumored "Pro" Pentax body that is coming (at some point) will have better high ISO performance and less noise (similar to the 40D and D300) than the K10D?

This is the one feature that I really, really want. I shoot indoors in low light 80-90% of the time right now (portraits of my kids and family) and the ability to crank up the ISO to get a higher shutter speed without a significant noise penalty would be so helpful.

I don't need it tomorrow, or even by Christmas. But if the Hoya merger means that such a camera body may never appear, I really need to consider other options.

Thanks.
If Pentax uses the same sensor as in the Sony A700, I wouldn't expect a huge improvement over the K10 from what I have seen so far (look at the dcreview samples for example and compare them to K10 samples to get an idea of the potential).

Better performances, yes, big improvement, no (IMHO).
09-24-2007, 12:07 PM   #7
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If Pentax is using the same Sony sensor then I think that one of the conditions for Pentax will be to delay the launch of the new pentax in order to skip any competition with the A700 for christmas season. I dont see Sony shooting on their foot by letting Pentax use its technology while they are now direct competitors. And I agree, the pics of the D3/300 at high iso looks good so far, but the ones of the A700 looks kinda noisy compared to them (althought they are a clear improvement on the previous Sony model)
09-24-2007, 03:16 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
If Pentax is using the same Sony sensor then I think that one of the conditions for Pentax will be to delay the launch of the new pentax in order to skip any competition with the A700 for christmas season. I dont see Sony shooting on their foot by letting Pentax use its technology while they are now direct competitors. And I agree, the pics of the D3/300 at high iso looks good so far, but the ones of the A700 looks kinda noisy compared to them (althought they are a clear improvement on the previous Sony model)
My understanding is that the Nikon D300 is using the same sensor as the one found in the A700.

So if there's a noticeable picture quality differences, it maybe the camera, not the sensor.

This also counters the sony holding out comment idea since the Nikon D300 will be out soon.

09-24-2007, 04:13 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by AVANT Quote
My understanding is that the Nikon D300 is using the same sensor as the one found in the A700.

So if there's a noticeable picture quality differences, it maybe the camera, not the sensor.

This also counters the sony holding out comment idea since the Nikon D300 will be out soon.
hmm, perhaps this why nikon imaging only has iso200 samples for the d300 whereas they have up to 6400 for the d3 ?????????

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09-24-2007, 04:16 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by switters Quote
What is the likelihood that the rumored "Pro" Pentax body that is coming (at some point) will have better high ISO performance and less noise (similar to the 40D and D300) than the K10D?
Hmm, D300 isn't out yet, how do you know how will it perform in high sensitivities?
Sony α700 samples are not encouraging at all.
09-24-2007, 06:08 PM   #11
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I want just the opposite. I'd like to see ISO 50 or even 25 (remember the old Kodachrome 25? SWEEEEET!)
09-24-2007, 08:06 PM   #12
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I'd like to see a real innovation that has no iso: signal gain, amplification, etc., not required.

Light energy hitting a 'sensor' is constant, what happens afterwards.... will require real coordination between image file output and software application interpretation. To me this is the future; frame rate, buffer speed, focus points, noise, etc., are all iterative improvements that will always improve but to no one's satisfaction.
09-25-2007, 05:40 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by AVANT Quote
My understanding is that the Nikon D300 is using the same sensor as the one found in the A700.

So if there's a noticeable picture quality differences, it maybe the camera, not the sensor.

This also counters the sony holding out comment idea since the Nikon D300 will be out soon.
I think that I read elsewhere that Nikon developed the sensor from the one from sony so my guess is that it might well be the same squeleton but different in sensor processing (I think that Sony makes the A/D conversion at a different stage). I also remember some post in other forum suggesting that Nikon developed the sensor themselves (to me this one makes less sense althought I am not expert in Nikonology). Referring to the D300 images, I saw some samples in a dpreview post at 3200ISO and they looked pretty good, althought I have seen some post there referring to D300 images that at the end were taken with a D3, so who knows.

My feeling is that if somebody wants a real jump in ISO performance they should be willing to expend way more of 5000K in equipment and get the D3+nice lenses (or similar option with Canon). Meanwhile I will enjoy my camera and try to make nice pictures by learning some good fundaments about ilumination with a couple of good flashes.
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